Just finished getting a degree? Too bad, you're screwed!

[Not not Mattaru]

(unless we're talking Ivy League/Top Tier schools）

I will be the first to say you don't need to go to one of these schools to get a lot out of your education, but it doesn't fucking hurt. Especially if they have a lot of money to give you for grants/research etc. for what you want to do. I am kind of curious as to how competitive these kind of schools are at a graduate level.

On the list of schools I am thinking about, there are maybe like...one or two that I would call really top tier/ivy league that I may apply to just for shits and I have to say I am at least curious. Does anyone have any enlightening experience in this regard. For the record, of the schools I am seriously considering, only one is what I would call really top tier (like top 3 for the field) and I am not going back to school for 1 and a half/2 years. Its a pretty broad question, but just throwin it out there and can be more specific if needed.

[Max™]

Would agree with this 100%. I'm taking a software engineering course this summer (its basically a capstone project) where we have to build a chess program. My other group members haven't had an internship, and I can definitely see a difference in code quality versus myself (and I wouldn't consider myself a very good programmer yet), as I've had an internship for over a year now. There is so much you learn outside of the classroom that it isn't surprising why jobs want people with intern/co-op experience.

Also, most jobs (well, the ones worth anything) that I've seen for programmers require a degree to even be considered. They'll usually check transcripts to make sure someone isn't bullshitting them.

Coding:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/academia_vs_business.png

As for the thread... well, how do you think I'd feel about hearing this?

[Ayn]

I will be the first to say you don't need to go to one of these schools to get a lot out of your education, but it doesn't fucking hurt. Especially if they have a lot of money to give you for grants/research etc. for what you want to do. I am kind of curious as to how competitive these kind of schools are at a graduate level.

Yeah, I wasn't saying that you did (sorry if it got taken that way). I do know they're a lot pickier about GRE/GPA etc. because they can be (a friend of mine is applying for MIT and Yale and is going through hell studying/getting ready).

A school could not be big name, but if you get up that high (Masters/PhD), the people that would be hiring you for that degree in a very specialized area know (usually) what schools are good for what.

[Corrderio]

Education D:

Wow that's odd. I've been seeing a few job postings for teachers pop up on one of the job listing sites I go to every now and then.

[Heavencloud]

Ditto on the "online degree" bullshit. I think that has something to do with the current "watered-down" state of the importance of an undergrad degree.

In my last semester, I needed to find an extra 3 credits to take so that I could graduate, but I didn't really have anywhere to fit it into my daily schedule. Alas, I took an online course. And let me tell you how well that worked out: lol.

I don't remember anything that I learned. I don't even really remember what I had to do. It was a complete joke. I didn't come away learning anything at all. And of course, I got an A.

Of course, it could be argued that my lack of a "willingness to try/learn" was the reason it was such a joke, but seriously, if you go to a physical classroom and sit and face the teacher for every class period of a real class, there is no way in hell that you are going to come away having learned absolutely nothing (and if you do, there is no way you will pass the class).

I completely agree with all that's said above. I've taken a lot of online courses at my CC (online shows up the same on transcripts, so no harm done) and 80% of them have been super easy (20% super hard though, some teachers go balls out making it harder then it should be). Online degrees/schools are complete bs though, only reason I'm doing any online classes at all is it allowed me to complete my associates degree in one year rather than 2 by working my ass off while still holding a job.

That being said, never take an online class for an interesting subject that you care to go in depth about, cause you won't get it there. Science/math = classroom is a must for sure.

[Meresgi]

I'm curious about this to. I was thinking of taking a few courses at a community college to learn C# and a few other things then when I get my degree from that further it and learn C++ and whatever else they offer in the course.

Not sure about all places. But I have a friend working through a Comp Sci degree. He's been interviewed at 2 places so far which both asked him if he had any work experience using their coding system that they ONLY USE THERE. I thought that was kind of funny. They basically used their own version of Visual Basic or something, and he was like "Well I know Visual Basic?" and they didnt want to hire him because he didnt know their version.

As far as job outlook, I think it's still pretty good for IT people. I see a few places hiring around where I live for IT guys and there are always jobs to work for the state or schools.

I don't remember anything that I learned. I don't even really remember what I had to do. It was a complete joke. I didn't come away learning anything at all. And of course, I got an A.
Of course, it could be argued that my lack of a "willingness to try/learn" was the reason it was such a joke, but seriously, if you go to a physical classroom and sit and face the teacher for every class period of a real class, there is no way in hell that you are going to come away having learned absolutely nothing (and if you do, there is no way you will pass the class).

I've passed a ton of in classroom courses at college just bullshitting my way through the same way you can bullshit your way through online. It's all about putting in extra effort on your part towards the material. The time I save driving to college or walking to classes and being on my computer I devote to surfing through tutorials for stuff I want to do in projects, and figuring out interesting methods to obtain what I want. Same was true for real classrooms, I took a Flash course where we got the very basic of the basic info, I took it upon myself to learn actionscript coding to better my understanding and make better projects, then I sat through a history class and doodled for the entire class, each class and got an A-. (Did I learn shit from the history class? Fuck no lol, cant even remember what it covered other then some revolutionary shit at one point.)


I think it boils down to this:

People learn different ways. Some people might like to teach themselves the material while learning the basics, some people might want to have a face to face learning experience with a professor, some people learn via taking notes or visual stimuli, some people learn just by listening to someone drone and they just chronicle every piece of information.

[Ferion]

Just curious Ayn, what field in the social sciences are you in graduate school for?

I will be the first to say you don't need to go to one of these schools to get a lot out of your education, but it doesn't fucking hurt. Especially if they have a lot of money to give you for grants/research etc. for what you want to do. I am kind of curious as to how competitive these kind of schools are at a graduate level.

The only problem is that if some one wants to get into academia (assuming they're going for their Phd) at a decent school after graduating you pretty much need to go to a graduate school in the top 30 or 40 range of your field. Apparently things are a lot different in private sector but from what I've been reading things are incredibly competitive in academia now.

[Not not Mattaru]

Just curious Ayn, what field in the social sciences are you in graduate school for?



The only problem is that if some one wants to get into academia (assuming they're going for their Phd) at a decent school after graduating you pretty much need to go to a graduate school in the top 30 or 40 range of your field. Apparently things are a lot different in private sector but from what I've been reading things are incredibly competitive in academia now.

Yeah, I could get into some pretty decent programs with my refs, experience, GRE scores, GPA, and a good SoP (on paper at least). But I am wondering how competitive it is on things like GRE scores etc. for like...best of the best.

Like, one school I am looking at, the successful student/applicant profile for the program I am interested in mentions being in the 90 percentile range for GRE Verbal...and mine is like 88th/89th percentile, my GPA was like 3.457 with a high trend in my Junior and Senior year. I actually took a Masters level seminar on accident senior year and did really well. I'm wondering if it is worth taking the GRE over again in the future because it will be just that competitive and I should shoot for squarely in the 90th percentile range or if at that point it is just nit-picking and I should just focus on the more subjective parts of my application (refs, experience in field, etc.).

For the other schools I am generally above their average applicant so I'm not as concerned. But yeah, I am straddling professional or academic still and giving myself another year or so to figure it out.

[Daydreamer]

EDIT: Oh, and unless your school uses $300+ books, or you are really strapped for cash.
KEEP
YOUR
TEXTBOOKS
You never know when you need to relearn something you forgot. And you can always hand them to your kids to have a look at, down the road.

Amen to this. I kept every single textbook I ever owned. I just applied for a math tutoring job in Austin where I'm about to move to and I still have all my books to reference to. And as I said earlier I am wanting to go to grad school soon (for linguistics) so I'm basically re-reading all my old linguistic books.

[Weiing]

I don't believe that if you scored at the 88th/89th percentile, they would not accept you because their average/most successful applicant is in the 90th percentile. I guess they could be that nit-picky, but honestly...it's just a damn test score.

I never took the GRE because I was lazy and never wanted to. I just believe that standardized tests aren't a true reflection of how someone will succeed in the graduate field they're looking into. I only applied to one grad school, as most needed GRE scores. I don't think I would have done poorly on the GRE or anything, I just was a lazy college student and knew I wanted to go to USC for grad school (because it has a pretty good MSW program and I could live at home). In fact, I've done quite well in school even without the GRE scores. However, after having been in grad school for a year, I'm entertaining the idea of getting a PhD later on in life. If so, I will have to take the GRE eventually. But for now... I haven't yet. My fiance is currently studying for it, as he wants to get a library science degree.

I agree with what most everyone has said thus far. From what everyone is saying... all I can say is, I'm glad I'm going for a MSW.

[Corrderio]

Not sure about all places. But I have a friend working through a Comp Sci degree. He's been interviewed at 2 places so far which both asked him if he had any work experience using their coding system that they ONLY USE THERE. I thought that was kind of funny. They basically used their own version of Visual Basic or something, and he was like "Well I know Visual Basic?" and they didnt want to hire him because he didnt know their version.

As far as job outlook, I think it's still pretty good for IT people. I see a few places hiring around where I live for IT guys and there are always jobs to work for the state or schools.

Wow that's kind of funny and sad how they somehow expect you to know their coding system inside and out when you don't have much to go on.

For me I mostly want to probably go in the game industry or something, since I think that's the only hobby I have which I wouldn't get sick of as a career.

[Ferion]

ike, one school I am looking at, the successful student/applicant profile for the program I am interested in mentions being in the 90 percentile range for GRE Verbal...and mine is like 88th/89th percentile, my GPA was like 3.457 with a high trend in my Junior and Senior year. I actually took a Masters level seminar on accident senior year and did really well. I'm wondering if it is worth taking the GRE over again in the future because it will be just that competitive and I should shoot for squarely in the 90th percentile range or if at that point it is just nit-picking and I should just focus on the more subjective parts of my application (refs, experience in field, etc.).

For the other schools I am generally above their average applicant so I'm not as concerned. But yeah, I am straddling professional or academic still and giving myself another year or so to figure it out.

Honestly it probably depends how highly ranked this school is. If it's some where in the top 10 then retaking the GREs probably couldn't hurt. At that range they have so many perfect applications they basically need to look for reasons to reject people. Most of these schools see near perfect GRE scores as a necessary but not a sufficient condition for being accepted. I honestly can't say for sure though, the application process seems so random some times. With your experience, good letters of recommendation, and your upward trend in your GPA you probably have a good shot.

Edit: Just curious, what field are you applying to go to grad school for?

[Conformity]

Go into sales bitches, boatloads of cash even at entrylevel

[Not not Mattaru]

Edit: Just curious, what field are you applying to go to grad school for?

@Weiing - yeah that is what I would hope for, but I've never sat in the Admissions chair.

@Ferion - That seems a lot like the undergrad process, in general I have been wondering if the grad level admissions process is much different, but it probably is contingent on what program, where, and how many people a year get accepted deal.

If I want to stick with Academics I'm going with Asian Studies. The school that I'm talking about would be UCBerkeley. Other schools would be like University of Washington, Hawaii@Manoa, maybe try to apply at an Ivy for shits. Talked to my old prof this week and she mentioned UBC in Vancouver and Stanford to me as well.

But in general I have been thinking more Int'l Affairs @ either American (American has a program that is like a year at American and a year at Ritsumeikan in Kyoto) or UCSD School of IR and Pacific Studies.

[Cantih]

Go into sales bitches, boatloads of cash even at entrylevel

Sales and commission aren't for everyone.

[Conformity]

Sales and commission aren't for everyone.

This is true, introverts need not apply.

But, if you are a good internet troll I think you will succeed @ sales. So spam please apply within.

[Ayn]

Just curious Ayn, what field in the social sciences are you in graduate school for?

Communication Studies. I'm not in grad school (I finished my M.A.), and I'm on the fence about the PhD, as relocating to somewhere else with shit pay for 3-5 years and no strong guarantee of a tenure track position somewhere I can stand to be doesn't really sound appealing.

And strangely, I like teaching more than I do compulsory research.

[Daydreamer]

Oh shit, it's Eli. Hi. Toss me a PM asshole, I was wondering how you were doing in school.



Someone else noted it, but without too much information, it's really hard to make a judgment. What field are you in? Are you in business and going back for an MBA? Computer Science/Tech? Engineering? Social Sciences/humanities? As I noted before, social sciences is where I'm at, so I'll first speak from that perspective:

As someone else already said, your time spent out of school isn't the big factor. Are the program(s) in question (keep in mind what Sath said; don't throw all your eggs into one basket) requiring a GRE score (some schools actually don't). Do they require a writing sample? How many letters of rec do they ask for? Are there any other requirements? I was in the same boat as you: Kinda eh GPA overall (it was just shy of a 3.0, like 2.999 something. I was a business major for awhile, which tanked my GPA) but my GPA in my major was like a 3.8.

My old boss (she was my supervisor when I was doing the TA program/graduate student teaching) has been serving as Graduate Coordinator for the past few years, and she passed on this advice to me (since I was teaching undergraduate seniors considering grad school):

-GPA and GRE scores, depending on schools, will not ultimately make or break you (unless we're talking Ivy League/Top Tier schools). I'm not saying you can rock a 2.5 GPA and cruise in, but if your GPA is slightly under what they ask for, but the other parts of the whole look good, you'll have a shot in getting in.

-Letters of rec matter. Get good letters of rec. If possible, get them from people who are familiar with you in multiple capacities in the institution (so someone who was a professor, an adviser, or even someone you worked with in student services).

-Writing Samples/Examples of work. The then grad coordinator at the time commented that my writing samples were excellent and impressed him. Since my overall GPA wasn't impressive by comparison, this helped.

-Outside/relevant work experience -- depending on the program, this can help. Remember the internship bit that's been harped on throughout the thread? Yeah, this matters.

-A good personal statement. Look, let's be honest here: Grad schools don't want to waste their time or yours. Make sure that your personal statement reflects that you're a good fit for the school, and the school is a good fit for your future plans. I'm not saying you need to have every bit of your grad career planned out, or already know exactly what you want to write your thesis/dissertation on. However, you need to be able to show that you've put some thought into this, rather than 'lulz the economy sucks I wanna go back to skool'. Graduate programs are getting flooded with that.

Not directly related, but still relevant advice. . .

-Read the goddamn website for the school (this was from my old supervisor -- this drives her nuts). Some schools will have good sites that explain their program upfront.

-E-mail the graduate coordinator for any questions. Be respectful in these communications. Don't send the shit from your iPhone or Crackberry. It isn't one person who ultimately decides if you get in or not (it's a committee, but said coordinator's on it). If you've been a royal pain in their ass, well, this could prevent it.


That was probably way more info than you needed. tl;dr: I can't really say much about your chances without knowing more, but your GPA alone doesn't seem like it'd prohibit you at most schools.

OH, and to the people talking about online programs:

I teach/taught at the University of Phoenix. I'll say that for some people, it's a good fit and I see why they're doing it. Would I recommend it personally? No. If anyone's that desperate to know why, just PM me.

Oh nice reply. Thanks. I was mainly concerned about being out of school for so long as being a factor as to if they'd accept me or not. I'm really interested to get a masters in linguistics and eventually focus that down into language acquisition and the philosophy behind language (quite similar actually). The thing is that unless you got to a university that is has a giant linguistics department (there aren't many) then it's basically impossible to do any kind of internships as an undergrad. Heck, I didn't even figure out I wanted to do this until after I graduated. And, as I started in a previous post, you really can't get outside work experience in this field until you're at the line between the masters and the PhD.

As far as the written sample. I'm currently looking into UT as my #1 choice (of course going to apply to others) and they require a sample research paper. I assume this is basically the same thing. Only problem, I majored in German, my last 2 years worth of papers are basically all in German, and I'd never let those be a make or break factor for me being in because the teachers that graded these know it's not written by a native or anyone that is fluent. I got a new computer about the time I started writting all auf Deutsch, so I don't even have older papers. The good news, I can actually do a quick 5-10 page research paper on linguistics on my own and it will probably be better than anything I wrote in college because, ya know, I actually want to write it.

At least I know I can get some solid letters of recommendation, one from my favorite linguistics teacher

Thanks for the advice. It's about what I though. Now I just need to go work hard for it.

[Shazaam]

I'm in healthcare administration (why be a doctor when I can employ doctors?). Got my degree in 2004, spent two years working at coffee shops waiting for something to come along before I found my career.

Yeah... go for a healthcare administration degree with no experience in healthcare...

The only real healthcare admins I know were nurses to start with and then got promoted with 2 degrees and a masters.

(Why be a doctor when I can employ doctors)? Seriously, do you not think every doctor or P.A. or ARNP or RN or tech wouldn't ask the exact same question: 'Why the hell is this unacknowledged F**K trying to administrate me?'

My suggestion: look into nursing homes with a shitty track record.

[aduidarnenye]

I gave up trying to use my degree for getting a real job, one that's interesting and fulfilling. I spent years trying to get into a publishing house, even an entry level receptionist position. I finally just went and taught English overseas for several years, but that's pretty dead-end if enjoyable.

Coming back to Canada I could only get a data entry position. Ironically enough, the skills needed for data entry I gained by playing online games for many years (I can type really, really fast). Data entry is mind-numbingly dull and the management treats the employees like complete idiots so I want out of there. The only bright spot is that I get to listen to a lot of audio-books on my iPod.

My final solution was to apply to the navy because they are crying for people and anyone with a degree gets to be an officer, even a silly arts degree like mine. The only problem with this is that I applied last September and am stuck in criminal background check hell due to my time overseas teaching. But at least they'll pay very well when I get in, train me in a lot of stuff, and won't ever lay me off. The wait is excruciating however.