Assisted suicide and the like

[BerenTebogo]

No preachy article, no opinion at this point, and a very loose standard that I hope you all can help me expand to be most appropriate for this topic.

For now, I see it as assisting someone who is diagnosed with a terminal illness and who is in an extraordinary amount of pain (which is completely subjective from person to person) which cannot be properly managed choose to end their own life with the help of trained medical personnel.

Now what I want to know BG is where do you stand on the subject? What do you know of it anecdotally and factually? Are you involved with, or aware of people who are involved with, legislation for or against the legality of the practice? Do you see it as a moral, religious, ethical, or personal choice? Do you think it is something that should be under the purview of the state in the first place? On and on.

Basically, I want to know the breadth of your feelings on this highly controversial topic.

[Tricen]

I think the younger generation has become more desensitized over the years, and once they start to get into power and stuff, things will drastically change. I think people now are just too afraid to judge human life, or something. I dunno

[Andarvi]

If you are of sound mind and mentally cognizant and suffering from an terminal illness, I don't see a problem with assisted suicide. Who is anyone else to tell someone that the HAVE to live, period, let alone if they are terminally ill. There really isn't a gray area to me in terms of defining those eligible: obviously don't embrace it if they are suffering depression or herpes or something. But if they have brain cancer, lupus, end stage renal failure with no sight of transplant on the horizon, etc..., I feel the decision is the patients. They may have families who will be hurt in the process, and almost certainly say the patient in question isn't of sound mind, but frankly its still the ill person in question's decision. Some may argue that just wanting to have helping offing oneself calls into question the sanity of the individual to begin with, but I think thats silly.

[Atreides]

Dying sucks, if you know it's inevitable and you know it's going to be painful then I don't see why you'd stick around. If I get diagnosed with ALS or something like that I am getting the fuck out of dodge before things get bad, life isn't precious enough to live in agony.

[Meresgi]

I know our Hospice up here in NY basically performs assisted suicide. They slowly cut down on your food, and drink while drugging you up more and more to kind of ease you off. I honestly don't mind assisted suicide, i've always been in the mindset that if i'm struck blind, deaf and dumb or crippled to the point where I can't move a limb of my body...I honestly don't want to go on. Same thing if i'm just horribly sick and have no chance at a cure.

[Judai]

If it's something where you are in tremendous pain everyday, are a vegetable or know you are going to die in a horrible way, I don't see the problem.

It's your life, you should be allowed to say when and how you want die. Forcing someone to live a horrible life because they can't actually kill themselves is pretty fucked up.

[TacoTaru]

I was never very much one way or the other until my mom's partner ended up with lung cancer and basically became so delirious that she went from wishing it could be done so she didn't have to suffer to becoming so paranoid that she thought my mom, her sisters, her brother, hospice nurses, and her priest (Father? I'm not sure she was Catholic though) were trying to kill her for her inheritance money. A woman who had lost something along the lines of 110lbs from cancer would struggle so much trying to be given medicine or even being cleaned up by her nurse that several people always ended up having to restrain her because how violent she got because of her paranoia.

My mom respected her wishes by letting her die at home where she wanted to be, but it ended up probably the being one of the most emotionally draining experience she has ever went through.

tl;dr Yes I'm very much in favor of it.

[BerenTebogo]

Dying sucks, if you know it's inevitable and you know it's going to be painful then I don't see why you'd stick around. If I get diagnosed with ALS or something like that I am getting the fuck out of dodge before things get bad, life isn't precious enough to live in agony.

One of the biggest problems as I understand it (and I don't very well) is that if you just kill yourself your life insurance is null and void and your family gets absolutely nothing. If aided whatever becomes an accepted medical practice the insurance companies would have to comply with the payout (I THINK).

At above people: So far only 3 or 4 states allow any form of assisted suicide so regarding the "who is to say..." question: apparently, the state governments believe that they, in fact, are the ones to say.

[Andarvi]

I was speaking hypothetically, unfortunately the state and government does indeed have the say in regards to this, as they do in other things they shouldnt (hi2u same sex marriage blah blah)

[Atreides]

chris christie doesn't want NJ residents to kill themselves because he prefers to eat our flesh warm

[Sylvrdragon]

Current world population: 6,859,314,572

Annual World Population Growth circa 2008: 1.17% per year.

The Doubling time of 1.17% per year is approximately 60 years.

The list of problems that get worse as more people are added is very long.

The effects of overpopulation are minimal in the US right now, and it's not the type of problem that people notice right away. The effects grow slowly and can be very subtle at first. As such, people don't recognize it as a problem that needs to be addressed. Fortunately, the problem will eventually fix itself. Birth rates will fall and death rates will rise, as exponential growth cannot go on infinitely in an environment of finite resources. UNfortunately, the way it's gonna fix itself is with war, famine, disease, pollution, crime, accidents, etc. In other words, things are going to get rather uncomfortable if we don't take steps to alleviate the problem ourselves. The problem is, the only solution is to cull the population in some way of our own choosing... So far, Birth Control is about the only legal way to do this.

I think legalized suicide and desensitization of the populace are steps in the right direction.

Spoiler: show

[BerenTebogo]

Almost 7b? Fuck, it seems like last I checked some decade ago it was around 6.3-6.5

[Meresgi]

You watch Penn and Teller: Bullshit? They did an episode on Old People this past week and they talk about assisted suicide.

[Sepukku]

My philosophy is, in America, we are founded on the ideals of "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." One should be free from their government infringing on their freedoms, their ability to be happy, or their ability to live. By no means are people REQUIRED to take use of these freedoms, they are merely afforded the chance to live, be free, and be happy. One should not be required to live any more than they are not required to take use of their freedoms - we are allowed to vote, we are not required to vote. We are allowed to own firearms, we are not required to own firearms. We are free to pursue our happiness, we are not required to get off the couch and "take that chance." We are given the oppurtunity to live without the government impairing our safety, we are not required to live. This right is inalienable and is afforded to us at birth. At birth we are garunteed nothing in life - not a spouse, not good health, not happiness, not wealth - we are garunteed nothing, EXCEPT that we will die, and we should have a say in how and when we meet that inevitability.

[Callisto]

I'm all for sepukku.





















































The practice, not the poster.

[Denchi]

There are plenty of terrible diseases that can take YEARS to eventually kill someone. The amount of pain associated with these are no doubt unbearable. I believe assisted suicide is fine under certain circumstances.

Now, what circumstances? Usually what people look for is a sound mind, and a reasonable person to explain to them what they're feeling, and how much pain they're in, and to re-write their will quickly, etc etc. But if you're suffering from a disease, chances are your state of mind is altered, either from the disease itself, or just from the fucking 24/7 pain. It's harder to say in those situations. I believe a comprehensive knowledge of the diseases and their effects is extremely valuable, but even then, can be on a case-to-case basis, if there were ever such an extensive database of diseases, symptoms, and mental state as said disease progressed.

Anyways.....there's no doubt that if I, personally, had a terminal illness that was causing me excruciating pain, I'd love nothing more than someone to end it for me.

I took a Health Care Ethics class in college, and we watched a video of a burn victim caught in a freak explosion (him and his dad were trying to restart their car, at the same time the valley they were in had fallen victim to a natural gas leak from a nearby plant, kaboom). Dude went through about 5 years of in-hospital vinegar baths, soakings, etc etc. He wanted nothing more than death. 20 years down the road, he's extremely disfigured, but married again, with children. People these days ask him "Would you want to be killed when the accident happened, knowing what you know now?" His answer "Absolutely, even with what I have now, I would never have wanted to go through with that." Even 20 years down the line he was suing the hospital for not killing him. He was so burned he couldn't have picked up a gun if he wanted to, let alone pull the trigger.

That being said, some people are tougher, some are weaker. Some people respond differently to different diseases. Some progress more quickly or more slowly. How can you measure these things? You can't, at least not now. So would there ever been a government system with guidelines to regulate assisted suicide? No. Either way, no matter how I view these circumstances with other people, if I, personally, was ever in that situation, I can't say I wouldn't want someone to end it for me, I'd be pissed if someone forced me to stay alive under the most grueling, futile circumstances. It's kind of a fucked up situation.

[Krandor]

100% in favor of it under the logical situations mentioned above.

If someone can honestly present a valid argument against it that isn't based on religion, I'd be genuinely surprised.

Edit: Said honestly twice in one sentence.

[Plow]

I know our Hospice up here in NY basically performs assisted suicide.

No, they don't.

There is a tremendous difference between choosing against life support and the general term assisted suicide.

[pahnphoenix]

it's all good. this video is good too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBjP3vIBgVM

[BerenTebogo]

Small aside now before this thread expands as people wake up.

Pretty much by now, in most threads where you can disagree with any point without looking like a Vajra, there is at least one dissent. To this point, there really isn't.

Now, let's look at our extremely accurate BG population sample:
Gay marriage threads? Arguments.
Religion threads? I voice my opinion. 'Nuff said.
Political threads? Undoubtedly will be the start of World War 3 in 2019.
Climate change threads? Debate
Paranormal bullshit threads? Stupidity followed by debate followed by thinly-veiled stupidity.
Sports threads? Argument, bannings, cities lit on fire.
Health and Medicine? Dissenting opinions on efficacy and the like.

I think you get the picture.

Thread about the right to choose whether or not you're forced to live in excruciating pain, against your will, by law?

Yeah, that's part one of this whole meandering point.

Now, looking at politics, society, etc:
What issues are brought up with the specific intent to do nothing but sway the voters?
Abortion, gay marriage, climate change, welfare, medicare, taxes, war. On and on.

Yet, the one thing we can all agree on, at least up until this point on a shitty forum in the middle of the internet, is that the right to not be tortured by refusal of medical services is in no way, shape, or form something that should be universally denied by law...which it is.

So, while we lobby for pot, and gay marriage, and obamacare, and everything else, this issue remains, while present, towards the back of the line where it is easily dismissed if brought up and remains out of focus just long enough to turn the attention of the public onto something much shinier.

Could it be that we're not giving this issue the attention, or rather the push, that it deserves?