Hardware effects on 30FPS cap?

[Purrrfect]

the graphics in ffxiv are... very well done, I mean if you look close at some mobs reflective surfaces.. you'll see yourself/surroundings/other light sources etc.

The water could use some work when running through it but stuff like watching how the water goes against the beach and such looks pretty cool.

Last night I was in LL and happened to be looking at the docks. It would have been a really nice touch if they could have made the water splash around the pier posts, as is it looks like the dock is shopped on top of the water lol.

[Gulkeeva]

We aren't going to be interacting much with water, so I'm sure the physics aren't really a priority. Probably the same level of interaction as FFXI, IE. running along shallow water on beaches and streams.

Well lvling in cassi involved.. alot of running around in the water! Especially from guildleve mobs! and that stupid orobon thing, popping outa no where hitting me for 90-100, was like ZOMG SHIT RUN EVERYONE GOGOG

[Katlan]

We aren't going to be interacting much with water, so I'm sure the physics aren't really a priority. Probably the same level of interaction as FFXI, IE. running along shallow water on beaches and streams.

that's the extent of the beta.. You can go [maybe] shoe deep in water if you check along the shores of a few areas.

I'm a bit saddened that the quick brief of things to expect in p3 didn't go into detail of any software changes

[shaddix]

dude, fuck 30fps on pc. 30fps is for pussy consoles. If I'm not running at least 60 on pc then it's some ol booooooooooolshiet.

[geno3302]

Small Wall O' Text ahead!

Spoiler: show

To answer your questions, as others have stated FFXI was designed for PS2. The lag you experience when a ton of models suddenly appear is them being loaded into ram. FFXI is almost 10GBs it's not like they can load the whole game into ram when you turn on the game. FFXI is also very processor intensive. As far as why FPS games tend to go for 60fps instead of the standard 30fps, that also ties into how they're are coded and the focus of the game. You need your guns/characters to react fast in a fps game so the refresh rate needs to be equally high. As far as processing power goes however, I can't imagine an fps using more then an MMORPG. Think of it: an FPS computes HP, ammo, delay between shots, simple physics equation for velocity of bullet, hit detection (doubt any support pixel collision,), and movement of 12, 16, 24 players that are all more then likely only using 2 generic models with only the gun changing? Not much else going on in an FPS: Get state from server > process controls > send state. If you look at FFXI for example, each model has to be constructed out of it's individual pieces: Head, Body, Hands, Legs, Feet and then have each armor piece attached as well as weapons. This means getting the data from the server and loading the individual dat files then constructing it and drawing it. You also have to load HP(not sure if everyone's MP is constantly loaded,) Target data, Status effects(again not sure if it's loaded outside PTs,) position. Not to mention all your stats/gear are maintained, as well as spell/ability timers, distance from all targets....I'm just going to stop. MMORPGs tend to focus on the look instead of 60fps so that we can more accurately hit enter to cast a spell a fraction of a second faster. Cutting the frame rate in half gives the processor and video card more time to load and calculate data allowing for a much richer world.

tl;dr:
FPS games generally require much much less computing then an MMORPG. Frame rate for FPS is designed to be higher because they care about you pressing the trigger a fraction of a second faster where as in an MMORPG you're probably not going to notice using a spell or ability a fraction of a second sooner so they give up the focus on frame rate to allow the processor and video card more time to load a richer world that we all want to see.

[Questionable]

I don't know about how fps relates to entering a function faster or not but from my experience in the beta or ffxi, when model lag appears, my commands don't seem to be sent as quick and may "miss". I would need to press enter twice to get a spell off or something.

[Sinzfeldt]

It's not a delusion. Most games in general run at 30FPS regardless of what they can hit FPS wise because that's the standard a lot of games run at smoothly for most people, I never said they were capped at 30 FPS because outside of shooters you can fit everything in a 30 FPS environment, it's usually shooters that need more frames over most other genres.

You'll never see a game designed to run at less than 30 FPS in this day and age because it's an industry standard and most games that aren't shooters tend to run between 30-50fps regardless, we're just so trained to the smoothness 30 fps offers and any less we can immediately notice.

Would like to see some evidence of this and not some obscure third rate indie games.

[Kylewhataru]

It's not a delusion. Most games in general run at 30FPS regardless of what they can hit FPS wise because that's the standard a lot of games run at smoothly for most people, I never said they were capped at 30 FPS because outside of shooters you can fit everything in a 30 FPS environment, it's usually shooters that need more frames over most other genres.

You'll never see a game designed to run at less than 30 FPS in this day and age because it's an industry standard and most games that aren't shooters tend to run between 30-50fps regardless, we're just so trained to the smoothness 30 fps offers and any less we can immediately notice.

No, 30 fps caps are standard on consoles, not for PCs, people get pissed when games come out with 30fps caps.

And I like every genre at 60 fps, it just looks better, I like the silky smooth feeling. For instance Dragon Age is an RPG and I would die if I had to play it at 30fps, same goes for starcraft 2 and that's a strategy game, it's not just about shooters. Things are still playable at 30 fps but why lock people into it... it sucks if you have the hardware to run 60fps and they force you to only 30. If someone wants to play at 30 let them, if they want to play at 60 let them, it doesn't hurt anything, shouldn't be locking settings like that.

[alecrast]

Most PC games are not capped at 30fps. Most games with a vsync option are not capped. The original point of vsync was to bring a game that's running at faster than the refresh rate of a monitor down to the monitor's refresh rate to avoid screen tearing and there's a vsync in just about every game I've ever played. Games simply look smoother when running at 60fps versus 30. Some people claim to be able to tell the difference between 100fps and 60. I don't fall into that category but I can definitely see and feel the difference between 30 and 60.

[Kylewhataru]

If you can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 there is something wrong with your eyes, there really is. People get offended when I tell them that but it's the only logical explanation, to me it's extremely obvious, so either my eyes are somehow genetically superior (doubt it, I've needed glasses/contacts since I was 12) or there is seriously something wrong with the people who claim they can't notice the difference.

[Questionable]

It's even easy to tell when watching cinematic ~24FPS vs regular 30FPS television. Anyways, just saying I can tell when there's few FPS difference, I'm sure others can.

I hope phase 3 can give 60fps, it's retarded we're all buying these $700-$1000 systems to be capped at 30 for the next 3-5 years (or 7+ for the crack addicts :D )

[Ghostsix.Midgard]

I don't know about how fps relates to entering a function faster or not but from my experience in the beta or ffxi, when model lag appears, my commands don't seem to be sent as quick and may "miss". I would need to press enter twice to get a spell off or something.

thats more server lag than anything.
Let's go SE, uncapping only the char creator is a cocktease. I can accept 30 fps but don't fucking tease me.

Fingers crossed for 60 in retail but due to ps3 limitations, not gonna bet on it.

[Hyan]

If the movement speed is linked to the 30 FPS then we're screwed I guess.

Or can they change it to 60? The 3D-enabled XIV still gives me some hope too, although I don't really care that much to be honest.

[Katlan]

thats more server lag than anything.
Let's go SE, uncapping only the char creator is a cocktease. I can accept 30 fps but don't fucking tease me.

Fingers crossed for 60 in retail but due to ps3 limitations, not gonna bet on it.

I just want them to enable SLI/XF or their "future proof" game talk is a load of shit. Its only future proof due to their lolimitations

[shaddix]

If the movement speed is linked to the 30 FPS then we're screwed I guess.

Or can they change it to 60? The 3D-enabled XIV still gives me some hope too, although I don't really care that much to be honest.

Maybe not since the character creator you can use wasd to "run" and the animation appears normal at 60fps =D. I will pray o_ob

[geno3302]

I don't know about how fps relates to entering a function faster or not but from my experience in the beta or ffxi, when model lag appears, my commands don't seem to be sent as quick and may "miss". I would need to press enter twice to get a spell off or something.

Often times computations are based off of graphics, so data is calculated between the frames. So if the frame updates at 30fps then that's as fast as stuff will process. This isn't to say that having a stronger processor doesn't increase performance since the quicker the computations get done the more down time the system has to do other things or, in the case of events like Besieged, just more computations hence ensuring a lag free environment. Remember, the game is coded to run well at minimum required specs. Increasing your specs just lets them make things prettier and decreases the chance that a command might "miss." I don't know what your system specs are, but other then the occasional macro lag i have never had issues with lag. Even in astral burns standing in the middle of the mobs i have no issue getting commands off, even though there is lag.

[Celeras]

Fingers crossed for 60 in retail but due to ps3 limitations, not gonna bet on it.

Ps3s are 60FPS.

[Brodan]

XFIRE/SLI support comes from drivers/profiles. So the ball is on AMD/Nvidia side.
"PS3 is 60fps" statement makes no sense. Some games are locked at 30 fps, some at 60. Devs have to decide what they want - better gfx with lower fps or vica versa. SE goes for later.
So yup, "PS3 limitations" first strike is 30fps lock.

[Sinzfeldt]

So yup, "PS3 limitations" first strike is 30fps lock.

Thanks for confirming what SE is doing with their game random internet guy.

[Murureru]

I thought PS3 games usually run at 60fps, makes sense?