The most easily de-railable topic on the internet.

[Not not Mattaru]

For the record, I am a dude, and basically a big feminist. So I agree entirely with

he irrational, unreasonable, mythical and wholly stupid standards that men are held to in our society by other men are completely real and amazingly counter-productive. The idea that the measure of manliness is a lack of empathy and emotion, a need to be in a position of superiority by any means necessary, that being anything but an arrow-straight heterosexual is unmanly, etc, are all horribly ridiculous and do nothing but hold us back as a society.

but would also add "by other men and women".

The Male Privilege Checklist

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

Personally, depends on the field and employer; I can expand if you want. In general, I do not think it is uncommon knowledge that women have been at the disadvantage, but I do not keep up with the recent numbers.

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won’t think I got my job because of my sex – even though that might be true. (More).

Pretty confident, I'd say a lot of my recent jobs have been around 50% female or more on staff.

3. If I am never promoted, it’s not because of my sex.

Sure.

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won’t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex’s capabilities.

We are pretty worthless.

5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. (More).

Yes, less likely.

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

Not enough experience to weigh in on a personal level.

7. If I’m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low. (More).

Yes.

8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

No, I would base this on the fact that I get calls from gfs, exes, female friends, when they are walking home alone at night, but I have never done that...unless its a booty call.

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

It may be, but I want a little Mattaru.

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

In general, I think it would. Coming from a home where my mother probably now makes more than my father when I share this fact, the reactions can be interesting.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I’ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I’m even marginally competent. (More).

No idea really, I think independent of sex, unless someone is familiar with your child's behavior or your parenting skills, people just don't ask questions/praise etc.

12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I’m selfish for not staying at home.

As a man, probably not. Unless I am never home because of my job.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

Yes.

14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.

Yes.

15. When I ask to see “the person in charge,” odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

I have experience both ways in my workplace, but the higher you go I do believe you will more likely run into more men than women.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters. (More).

Not really. Maybe to play more sports.

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children’s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists were (and are) the default.

I don't remember and if anything I think this is shifting. I think it is more valuable to look at the values embodied by said protagonists.

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often. (More).

I was a dick pre-college, so I got a lot of attention. Couldn't tell you.

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

Nope.

20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented.

Depends, a lot of advertising is geared towards women so...

21. If I’m careless with my financial affairs it won’t be attributed to my sex.

No.

22. If I’m careless with my driving it won’t be attributed to my sex.

Nope.

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

I think if I got up and gave some speeches, presentations...people would do so. Depends on the subject matter.

24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a “slut,” nor is there any male counterpart to “slut-bashing.” (More).

Haha, um, I think may women friends would give me crap for it. But I don't tend to judge their sex lives so such terms are rarely serious.

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability. (More).

I do.

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women’s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman’s without tailoring. (More).

I would say this can be a big myth. A lot of women's clothing is in fact cheaper and less well constructed, fit on the other hand tends to be more of an issue for women though. I would say look at shoes. If I want to find a nice pair of dress shoes, like at a mid-level department store, I can guarantee you the price would equal multiple pairs of womens' shoes of equal manufacturer name recognition.

27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time. (More).

Yup.

28. If I buy a new car, chances are I’ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car. (More).

I don't really drive.

29. If I’m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

Too ambiguous of a question.

30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.

Rather a dick or douchebag.

31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called “crime” and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called “domestic violence” or “acquaintance rape,” and is seen as a special interest issue.)

Probably, kind of a tough question. Since 'typical' violence between males would be, i dont know, just 'assault' at the same time if it happens in the home, its still 'domestic' despite which sex.

32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. “All men are created equal,” mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

I can be confident that it isn't mailmyn.

33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

I'm in heat right now.

34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don’t change my name.

I would not be expected to, I would be questioned if I did or hyphenated it by relatives I am sure.

35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

Probably not.

36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.

Yeah.

37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

Basically.

38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we’ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks. (More).

No.

39. If I have children with my girlfriend or wife, I can expect her to do most of the basic childcare such as changing diapers and feeding.

Well I can't nurse it, but in general I'm for an egalitarian approach here.

40. If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we’ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

Was never the case in my house so yeah, not a given for me.

41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.

Yes.

42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. (More). If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do. (More).

Yup, pressure is there, I can not compare it to a female entirely, but I think we have threads about this issue.

43. If I am heterosexual, it’s incredibly unlikely that I’ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover. (More).

First thing that came to mind was an ex yelling loud as fuck at me and although she may have felt like hitting me, I did not reciprocate. Considering I don't think I would ever instigate violence I will just abstain.

44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to “smile.” (More: 1 2).

Wtf?

45. Sexual harassment on the street virtually never happens to me. I do not need to plot my movements through public space in order to avoid being sexually harassed, or to mitigate sexual harassment. (More.)

Never happens really.

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

Oh man...I guess if you know the women I do...

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

It is not a privilege.


My thoughts in general: some questions are kind of poorly worded, as a survey it is poor because it can lead the person being asked one way or the other fairly obviously, some of the questions are very subjective when having to compare, moreover the moment it is known the survey is about gender people are probably going to reconstruct whatever they already think rather than reliable experience.

[Weiing]

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST.

I think that most of the list, if not all of it, is pretty accurate, at least some point in time it was.

I agree that the meme of our ideas, thoughts, beliefs are shifting towards recognizing a more equal nature between men and women. I believe that it's great. Women are pointing out the inequalities that they experience, and now, we witness some gender inequalities for men, such as the assumption that rape and domestic violence is only a man perpetrator, woman victim scenario, and we quietly laugh in disbelief that men can be victimized by women. When a man is raped by a woman, he gets scoffed at "How? She's smaller than you...you're a guy." That's probably why men are less likely to believe that they'll get raped. I recognize this inequality, but... only because I recognize the inequality I've experienced as a women.

Yes, I acknowledge the fact that men and women have physical differences. But physical differences is only one dimension of a myriad amount of other dimensions of the being human. I believe in all other dimensions, we are equal, the same. It is merely how we are raised, which is deeply entrenched in culture that began a very long time ago, that we perceive each other so differently that we treat each other with such biases.

Men are tough, strong, don't cry. Women are soft, take care of the babies, and should be modest. I am glad that we are finally breaking the mold, and now the "unconventional" ways of doing things are becoming more accepted.

It's unfair to both men and women, but men usually don't even entertain the idea of discrimination, as there is some unsaid privilege to having a penis. I know one previous poster in here said that he was the only other man at his work other than his boss. Even if the field of social work, which I am in, is basically a women-dominated field, most, if not all of the administration jobs are still filled with what little men is still in the field.

People are surprised to hear that my fiance is taking my last time, and I'm keeping my last name. People assume that since I'm the girl, I'm so excited to get married and have this ideal wedding already planned. People assume that the woman should be the one taking care of the children, and if one of them has to give up their career, it will be the wife's.

A lot of you men that have posted are basing things off personal accounts and stories. This list is a generalization. There of course are exceptions.Oh of course you believe in gender equality, or would never assume that once a woman is pregnant, that she'll be the one to take care of the baby. You may also be blind to that privilege as you may never really recognize it, or want to acknowledge it. Generally speaking, all this gender inequality is still there. I'm not blaming you guys personally, as it's just so entrenched in any culture that it's hard to change instantly.

To understand discrimination, assumptions, and inequalities for both sexes, you have to first acknowledge that there is at least some inequalities for at least one of them. As I have said, I like the fact that we (around the world) are becoming more aware of women's issues, but that we also are becoming more aware of the unfair assumptions given to men as a result of this increased awareness.

Sidenote - the author themselves said that they are being culture-biased, as they are basing it off the US culture. They recognized that fact, so...they covered their own butts.

[Blabj]

women are shit and men are good

[Baha]

A lot of it is overexaggerated bullshit.
"I can be so-and-so without it being attributed to my sex." Can list numerous ones for both sexes.

Things about discrepancies with childcare and domestic tasks are something that couples have to work out for themselves. Most of the complaints in this regard are getting less and less relevant with each generation already.

A good thing, obviously. This goes both ways though, a father trying to take off time for his kids? Good luck friend! Female politician takes a week off to be with her kids? Bad press. Male politician does the same? Will be lucky to ever live it down.And of course: "I can divorce my husband and count on getting custody of our children, almost regardless of our respective circumstances.".

Also, the whole "I need to succeed at this or I will let women everywhere down" shtick is something that feminism imposes on itself. Not something you can then get to complain about.

Both sexes have to deal with both institutionalized and casual discrimination. Women do have to deal with a lot more casual discriminisation, but blatantly biased and exaggerated lists like these don't help. Incidentally, I think there was a semi-trollin' response to this list. Think this list and the response were on reddit and/or lifejournal a year ago or something. I'll try and find the reply (though it was exaggerated in the other direction, probably even more).

[Ruiner]

35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

This is true I suppose, but there is also a flip-side. Men, though not having their employment status questioned, will often be expected to work the same amount of hours as before they had a family, despite often taking a large part in the raising of said family. It's a given that women are given off time from work to raise their children, but men are almost never extended the same courtesy. This leads to situations like fathers staying up all night with their newborns trying to lull them to sleep, getting an hour of rest, and then getting up to go to their 9-to-5.

[Zoolander]

People are surprised to hear that my fiance is taking my last time, and I'm keeping my last name.

wtf, always knew Evan was a pansy

[Baha]

Incidentally, I think there was a semi-trollin' response to this list. Think this list and the response were on reddit and/or lifejournal a year ago or something. I'll try and find the reply (though it was exaggerated in the other direction, probably even more).

There's more than one, but this is the one I remembered, probably the original:
http://mepersoner.livejournal.com/200705.html
Another:
http://www.the-niceguy.com/articles/Checklist.html

[Weiing]

One last thing - I think it's key to note that, though most cultures/countries are shifting their frame of mind to eliminate/minimize most gender inequalities, it does not minimize/make up for past inequalities, biases, discriminations, etc.

Also, some of it may have a tone of slight exaggeration... But some things need to be exaggerated just a little to make a point, to make someone realize "Hey, perhaps there is something wrong."

The thing with raising awareness of women's rights and granting them those rights is that biases and assumptions of what men should do (such as paying child support) will arise. I'm not saying that it's not wrong, but there are many things that are expected of women and men are too blind to see because of their inherent privilege. Complete equality for both genders is a long ways down the road, but I hope we can get there.

But don't try to convince yourself there is no inequality/biases/male privilege because of what men are expected to do now (such as child support).

EDIT:
In before the "Rage you're a girl..."blah blah crap. I have never experienced any form of direct discrimination as a woman, to my knowledge. I have probably experienced institutionalized discrimination that I wasn't aware of, but I don't know about it so I'm not talking because I'm some embittered female Asian who has been discriminated her entire life. I have never had any friends that experienced directed discrimination, indirect, perhaps. I at least can acknowledge it though, and acknowledge the discrimination that men face, too. Just don't try to justify male privilege, or at least the lack of gender inequalities, on the basis that "here are the things that men are expected to do... and I've never witnessed women being discriminated against, so I think it's a lie".

First step to change is acknowledgement of something being wrong.

[Khajit]

Why wouldn't they be surprised when you two chose a naming convention different/opposite from a large majority of the people in your culture?
That's like complaining that people go wtf when you say your first Daughter shall be named Mustafah and your first son shall be named Daphne.
It's not because anything is technically wrong with that(although without a doubt there will be teasing involved) but because you did something different from what was normally expected.

[Weiing]

Why wouldn't they be surprised when you two chose a naming convention different/opposite from a large majority of the people in your culture?
That's like complaining that people go wtf when you say your first Daughter shall be named Mustafah and your first son shall be named Daphne.
It's not because anything is technically wrong with that(although without a doubt there will be teasing involved) but because you did something different from what was normally expected.

Yes, it's unconventional. But... stop, step back, and think. Why is it convention to have the woman take the man's name in the first place? That's what it really boils down to.

[Not not Mattaru]

wtf, always knew Evan was a pansy

Lol.

[Lucienne]

Ok, here's my 2 cents. I skipped the ones that didn't tell me much or were way too obvious.

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

There are in fact jobs were being a female would be in your favor, lets say daycare, however the second part of that statement is sadly usually true, unless the woman in question is exceptionally fit for the job in question.

2. I can be confident that my co-workers won’t think I got my job because of my sex – even though that might be true. (More).

If you are capable, no one will question how you got your job, if you're incapable, people will question wether you got it due to other reasons regardless of gender. You might be a member of the same golf club as your boss or a dumb nephew of the company owner.

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won’t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex’s capabilities.

Haha! I lack words.

5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. (More).

I'd assume so. On the other hand, if you were to be sexually harrassed at work, the chance anyone would take you seriosuly is probably significantly lower.

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

Again, it depends on the nature of the job. Women are generally assumed to be more caring and empathetic.

7. If I’m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low. (More).

Unless you wear a really short skirt, cause then you can blame yourself!

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

I'm not actually sure about this one. Having kids is so deeply rooted in the society as being the most important achievement in anyone's life you would probably still be labeled as odd, or possibly gay. You probably won't get asked as soon as you enter a relationship when you're going to have some kids. And if you by any chance decide you don't wan't any, you more than likely won't get the answer "just wait till you get a bit older" quite as often. I have never felt like having children; I was recently diagnosed with a blood mutation that makes my having offsprings rather complicated and to be blunt a really dumb thing to do and it's a great pleasure to watch people's faces when I tell them with a smile that I can't really have kids. Sadistic, but oh so enjoyable.

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

People will still think you're a terrible father though.

15. When I ask to see “the person in charge,” odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

Well, yes, but it might not always be to your advantage. Many men have a tendency to protect and help women, especially if they are physically appealing and know how to play dumb. Thus you might easier get what you want if you are female.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters. (More).

As a kid I hated dolls, my favorite toy was a huge bear and I really wanted a small car that you could sit in and drive around in (It probalby has a proper name, but I really cba to look it up). At the age of six my mother finally gave up and bought me a remote controlled yellow airplane. I loved that thing.
There is another episode I recall quite vividly. At a restaurant with my family, my six years younger brother wanted to slide down the railing of the staircase, my mother let him do it then pointed out it wasn't really appropriate. I was never allowed to missbehave in public places and even putting down my forks and knives in a wrong way was followed by a lesson in acceptable behavior.
My father strongly opposed of little girls having bruised legs.
Do parents treat childrend partly based on their gender? Definitely.
A while back I read an article in a Swedish paper about a couple that treats their child as if it had no gender. The name of the kid was Kim, and it's allowed to wear any clothes it desires, and pick toys it wants. Calling it it because I have honestly forgotten its gender. <.< >.>

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

Honestly I pity any woman that would do that. You cannot blame whatever bad event that comes your way on the disadvantages you might be facing in a society, regardless of what they are. Take what you have and make the best out of it, then if you fail, at least you know you gave it all. To think your life would be easier if you were a man is just plain dumb. It would only be different.

21. If I’m careless with my financial affairs it won’t be attributed to my sex.

Since when can men handle money?

22. If I’m careless with my driving it won’t be attributed to my sex.

If you're careless, it definitely will. If you drive careless and cause an accident it definitely won't. If you drive slow and careful, then you are assumingly an old lady with a hat.

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

You can speak in public to a large group.

24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a “slut,” nor is there any male counterpart to “slut-bashing.” (More).

As a woman, you can be called slut for pretty much anything.

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability. (More).

Do you own a lot of red?

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women’s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman’s without tailoring. (More).

Your clothes will last longer, because they're less dependant on fashion. They might even be more expensive to aquire. To say male clothing fits better would be saying male bodies differ less from norm, nothing else really.

27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time. (More).

Not if you are a Swedish man.

29. If I’m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

Going to pass on this point since it angers me. Looking good doesn't necessarily make your life easier regardless gender.

31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called “crime” and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called “domestic violence” or “acquaintance rape,” and is seen as a special interest issue.)

What violence is male specific? Fist fights? I'm serious actually.

32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. “All men are created equal,” mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

Actually, the word for man, as human being, in Swedish is feminin, you refer to it as a she.

33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

You see, when you are a woman, that time of the month can be applied to any sudden change of mood at any given point, so that statement isn't quite correct I'd say.

34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don’t change my name.

Many Swedish men actually take their wife's name if it's less common.

41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.

And isn't that a shame...

43. If I am heterosexual, it’s incredibly unlikely that I’ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover. (More).

Somehow the idea of a violant gay man makes me giggle, no offence, I get this really stereotypical picture in my head, wearing pink, high pitched voice... should try it, it's hilarious. :$
Sorry, really can't help it.

44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to “smile.” (More: 1 2).

Maybe you'd want them to?

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

Do you really?

[Khajit]

Yes, it's unconventional. But... stop, step back, and think. Why is it convention to have the woman take the man's name in the first place? That's what it really boils down to.

Because everyone you know is thinking "Why aren't you taking his name as proof that you are the one who shalt make him a sammich?" You appear to be trying to find chauvinism when none of the people there(presumably) are thinking of it as some sort of proof of that pansie's male dominance over you when they get surprised and as such it is not sexist at all to expect you to follow a societal convention.They also are merely surprised from your description and aren't telling you anything similar to "get back in the kitchen."
The context, time period and intent has more to do with how things should be interpreted
Example:
personA gets a tatoo with numbers on it from person B.
If person A was jewish during WW2 getting one from person B whom is german/aryan it gets a different connotation than if it was during modern times or if the races were swapped around.

[Kashka]

Just gonna touch upon a few that stood out to me a bit:

7. If I’m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low. (More).

While I'm prepared to agree with the statement in general, I think it's worth pointing out that rape statistics very very often use different metrics and methodologies to get to their conclusions. For example, FBI and other government statistics aren't very good indicators of male rape rates because by their definition the only way for a male to be raped is for anal penetration to occur. In addition, there's arguably more stigma for a man to say has was raped than a woman. I imagine that real male rape rates are slightly higher than perceived but still well below those of women.

8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

I have to question why not fearing to walk alone after dark is a privilege. I've seen in several places that men are assaulted three times more often than women in total, (total being everything from a mugging to rape, victimization in particular crimes changes). Maybe there's something wrong with me, but the way I see it, the fact that we spend more time teaching women how to react and protect themselves while assuming men will take care of themselves is more of a female privilege.

14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.

This is assuming classism and other things don't come into play. While they're more likely to care about issues pertinent to their own class, they also have far less slack in dealing with other classes. It's an advantage, but I don't think it's a particularly big one. It's also important to note that white men are not brought up to be self class conscious the way other classes are, so they're least likely to do something 'for the benefit of the class'.

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often. (More).

I've heard that boys typically receive a disproportionate amount of negative or corrective attention (from acting out, etc) from teachers while girls get a disproportionate amount of positive attention. This is partially theorized as to be why girls are doing much better than boys in school nowadays. I've also heard that girls are less likely to raise their hands at all, but when a roughly equal amount of hands are raised between genders they get called upon equally. Similarly, this is something that's been kind of a hitting point in feminism because of the 'lack of voice' idea. Sometimes people can be looking for it though, and the expectation can color what you see... for example, I saw a story told by a conservative of a debate (it was a debate on something similar to this particular speaking point) where someone called in saying that the women were being interrupted in the debate far more than the men were. This turned out to be true, but the women were doing the majority of the talking. When the storyteller broke out a stopwatch after the debate to check this out, she found that in time speaking/interruption, the one guy was last by a large margin. Also, I've heard that women speaking more than men in general was a myth and that we're not so different there. That's a lot of 'I've heard's.


I'm not gonna go through the remainder of the list because this post is already pretty long, and dealing with the domestic violence/special interest stuff would add considerably more. In general, most of these seem to be things with a hint of truth but presented more harshly than in reality, although some do seem to be flat out wrong(specific example, the one about men not needing to fear a spouse will be abusive). At least to me, anyway.

[Tristam]

While some of the topics in the list may be somewhat generational, and I truly think/hope improvements are being made, I think almost all of us could learn a thing or two by talking perhaps to our mothers or grandmothers about how they may have experienced institutionalized misogyny.

For my part, I remember my mom telling a story about how she wasn't allowed to get a charge card at sears despite the fact that she was gainfully employed. When she asked why she was told that she couldn't be trusted financially with a credit card because she was a woman!

Obviously that sort of thing wouldn't be tolerated today, but from her perspective, although it bothered her, she went on with her life because it was "the way things were". There are still things that are "the way they are", and it's usually for the benefit of males (or more specifically white males).

That being said, I would have expected more of a negative reaction in this topic. Usually when guys (myself included) are introduced to the concept of privilege, it's easy to react very negatively.

[Rhinox]

what the fuck is this?

[Kaisha]

It's a given that women are given off time from work to raise their children, but men are almost never extended the same courtesy. This leads to situations like fathers staying up all night with their newborns trying to lull them to sleep, getting an hour of rest, and then getting up to go to their 9-to-5.

Dunno how it is where you live, but in Canada we're allowed to split the maternity leave if we desire, just need to decide the time before birth with your employers afaik.

[Weiing]

@Kashka

You can nitpick all you want. Yes, I agree there's a lot of discrimination and unfair assumptions for both genders. I agree with many points that you have made. Rape statistics are only as truthful as how many people report it--and it's harder (more embarrassing) for guys to report, thus the skewed statistic. However, when it's all said and done, there is still more entrenched institutional, direct and indirect, biases against women, allowing more male privileges. Regardless, I think most, if not all, can agree there is a growing shift to more equality for both genders.

I think with most, people are just becoming defensive that there is such a thing as "male privilege". It's hard to identify the privilege when you've always had it. It's only when you don't have the privilege that you can identify and understand it. I remember once discussing with a group of people about white privilege, and the Caucasian people in the group got very defensive, though they didn't realize.

[Kashka]

^ I was under the impression that the point of the topic was to nitpick. All I was really saying is that the list portrays things more harshly than they truly are, not even necessarily that it's wrong. It's bombastic and sensational. There's an enormous amount of this kind of thing on both sides of the coin in popular literature (think Backlash, or Sexual Persona) because it's intended moreso to be a foot in the door for converts to feminist theory/antifeminism than just the end of the road.

If I came off as overly cynical or whatever, I didn't mean to, I was just putting forth what I had heard on a few of the talking points.

[Cyn]

what the fuck is this?

Sath trying to make us feel bad about being white men.