Remember that whole "Prop 8" thing? Yeah...

[Kellanved]

Since the law was brought up again, here's the process for how the court will decide which test to apply:

Is the right fundamental?
-if yes, apply strict scrutiny
--is it necessary (narrowly tailored) to achieve compelling govt. interest
-if no, apply rational basis
--can you make an argument in favor of the law without a SCOTUS Justice bursting out in laughter.

Not exactly correct (or maybe we're saying the same thing anyway, in which case nevermind me, depending on how your sentences are read). First off, and beside the fact that it makes no sense, standards of review are not shifted mid-application like that. They will apply the appropriate one, and reach a conclusion based on what that SR calls for. You're confusing a factor relevant to a particular standard of review with the factor that triggers a different standard of review.

As you partly noted, factors that trigger a heightened standard of review like strict scrutiny includes:

1. Fundamental freedom -: a determination that the right denied is fundamental
2. Suspect classification -: the discriminatory act operates to the particular disadvantage of a suspect class.

If these factors are present, strict scrutiny is applied.

If these factors are not involved in the challenged state action, then a lesser and different standard of review is used. (Rational Basis is the default position)

Application of strict scrutiny involves:

1. Whether the act is necessary to meet a compelling (note this is different from “legitimate”) state interest

2. Whether the act is narrowly tailored to achieve that compelling interest.

3. Whether the act is the least restrictive means of achieving the interest.

If these are satisfied, the state action will not be considered unconstitutional. If even one is failed, the act is deemed unconstitutional. You can even find this information on wikipedia.

Rational basis is a -different- and lesser standard of review. Think of them like a filter, you don’t start to run a thing through a fine filter to see if it will pass through, because only if it passes through that fine filter is it acceptable, and then start running it through a more forgiving filter when it fails the initial test.

As I noted earlier, the essential difference between standards of review is deference. The idea is that more serious state actions (involves fundamental right/suspect classification) will trigger the higher standard of review, whereas less serious state action (does not involve fundamental right/suspect classification) need not warrant such a heightened standard of review and the states can be afforded some deference with a standard of review like Rational basis. (Federalism policies and all that jazz)

[Khalil]

I gotta say I was quite shocked by this dude... At first I assumed he was being sarcastic, party of his demeanor but he's actually serious...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A-cWrs5mwE

I'm just speechless because fucked up idiots like him are what caused this Prop 8 to succeed >_>

[Ksandra]

I know, catholics have a knack for being understanding and welcoming of all types of people and lifestyles..strange this priest was different.

well, I'd rather not get into the debate, but it isn't so much about him being against it (expected), but that he'd bring it up at our wedding without even finding out if that would be ok.

[Kuya]

I gotta say I was quite shocked by this dude... At first I assumed he was being sarcastic, party of his demeanor but he's actually serious...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A-cWrs5mwE

I'm just speechless because fucked up idiots like him are what caused this Prop 8 to succeed >_>

LOL

[Milkster]

He has to be trolling.

[Khalil]

Holy shit, I just saw that video again for the fourth and can't explain my level of rage. I NEVER knew people like that actually existed...

Edit: @ Milkster, I really doubt he is. I've briefly glanced at his other videos and they convey the same message...

[Milkster]

I can not accept that people like this actually exist, to compensate in my mind he is troll of the decade.

[archibaldcrane]

The lack of irony in suggesting that Catholic leadership protects its people, especially from homosexual activity, is amazing.

[archibaldcrane]

It's also kinda funny how aghast we are at this, when a country like Israel allows its small minority of Orthodox to basically call all the shots and we're like "well yeah but they're jews so it's cool - this catholic nation nonsense is ridiculous though"

[Khalil]

It's also kinda funny how aghast we are at this, when a country like Israel allows its small minority of Orthodox to basically call all the shots and we're like "well yeah but they're jews so it's cool - this catholic nation nonsense is ridiculous though"

The middle east is a shit fucking place when it comes to freedom of speech, religion, habits, heck I doubt it even allows fucking freedom. We have come to expect such fucking filth from Middle East because they're dead set on merging religion with state affairs, when in reality, it should be divided up. Hence, their lack compromise. However, in modern democracies, we expect all of the above because they're the goals we strive to achieve, our examples.

To expect a sudden change in countries where religion and state are joined as one is the same as believing that global warming isn't happening; simply impossible. Also, frankly speaking, I was born in Africa, on the horn of Africa. And not once in my 19 years of living there have I seen an atheist who wasn't beat or shunned upon.

[Demosthenes11]

politics never used to make me rage so much, but I'm becoming less and less tolerant of that kind of shit and thoughts creep into my mind about moving to a deserted island and living the rest of my days with my round partner wilson where we can get gay married

[Zilong]

Also, frankly speaking, I was born in Africa, on the horn of Africa. And not once in my 19 years of living there have I seen an atheist who wasn't beat or shunned upon.

Not that it matters, since black people are colored that way because of their sin, and will not amount to anything regardless what they believe in mirite?

America's modern democracies pretty much boil down to shit slinging on muslim as the flavor of the month/week/year as of recent, and one party has been hell bent in turning the damn country into a christian state, democracy is such an overrated system.

[Kuya]

The middle east is a shit fucking place when it comes to freedom of speech, religion, habits, heck I doubt it even allows fucking freedom. We have come to expect such fucking filth from Middle East because they're dead set on merging religion with state affairs, when in reality, it should be divided up. Hence, their lack compromise. However, in modern democracies, we expect all of the above because they're the goals we strive to achieve, our examples.

To expect a sudden change in countries where religion and state are joined as one is the same as believing that global warming isn't happening; simply impossible. Also, frankly speaking, I was born in Africa, on the horn of Africa. And not once in my 19 years of living there have I seen an atheist who wasn't beat or shunned upon.

Have you ever been to Turkey or Lebanon? I would mention Iraq, but that place sucked for reasons having nothing to do with religion.

[Rhyis.]

lolhomos

[Bluefrostie]

I gotta say I was quite shocked by this dude... At first I assumed he was being sarcastic, party of his demeanor but he's actually serious...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A-cWrs5mwE

I'm just speechless because fucked up idiots like him are what caused this Prop 8 to succeed >_>

What a smart guy. If he were one of the "educated elite", he'd know that that weeding out the 'uneducated' was the whole whole reason America started an electoral college. Not only are they weeded out, the electors really can vote for whomever they want, just in case we all vote for someone crazy. Cool beans.

I'm Catholic and I'd vote no on Prop 8. Np. God desires happiness, not hatred.

[Psion]

Bluefrostie is an example of someone who is spiritual, not religious. The world needs more people who understand the whole point of the divine's message is to care for and love others and nature, as well as oneself, not to lose ones self to irrational fears and hatred.

Whether you call it Jesus, the God/Goddess, Allah, the Tao, or anything else you might believe, it is a force that exists in everyone, a quiet and gentle voice that whispers to you the lessons of love and kindness. When one's heart, rational logic, and body are in agreement, you know you're on the right track to spiritual growth. If your emotions clamor out by themselves, a gut feeling instead of a heart feeling, then you need to use the other abilities you have, your mind, to make sure you aren't simply afraid of something new and about to make a big mistake.

It's all about balancing all three and making sure you grow in them all. Religion is all about emotional growth, but neglects rational growth, and is somewhat limited on the importance of taking care of one's physical being as well. When any of these three is out of balance, that is a weakness that leaves one's soul open to disease and injury, the dark emotions of the heart such as hatred or fear that serves a lower purpose than the helping of others. When one neglects to help others grow, it starts a chain reaction that leads eventually to the harming of oneself, just like that wiccan saying of whatever you do, for good or ill, comes back to you threefold. Whether it actually is three times might be debated, but it is no myth that one reaps what one sows, and encouraging bigotry and harm to others will come back to haunt you with a vengeance eventually.

And the gods know that I seem to turn into some weird preacher at 4AM. I really need to keep my mouth shut, but I keep hoping that more people will start to pay attention to their spiritual, rational, and physical well being. Each person's needs are different of course. Some people are more well developed in certain areas than others. If you know you are well developed in an area, you probably are pretty weak in it. On the other hand, if your very being feels you have grown a lot, is receptive to more growth, and you feel a calm joy from it, you probably are on the right track. It's hard to put into words, but there's a difference from knowing and KNOWING where you are.

[Yuri-G]

on a semi-related note:

My priest didn't decide it might be good to talk to us before about our thoughts on homosexuality. But he thought it was good to bring it up during our wedding last week...I didn't know what to do lol >,<;

I had the urge to scream "this isn't the time, but we are against prop 8 so please move on"...but I was so nervous and embarrassed -.-;

are you kidding me? that's some nerve, to take someone's wedding and make it into a political statement, regardless of the issue.

also, congratulations!

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Not exactly correct (or maybe we're saying the same thing anyway, in which case nevermind me, depending on how your sentences are read). First off, and beside the fact that it makes no sense, standards of review are not shifted mid-application like that. They will apply the appropriate one, and reach a conclusion based on what that SR calls for. You're confusing a factor relevant to a particular standard of review with the factor that triggers a different standard of review.

I think we said the same thing. Indents don't show up so it was hard to differentiate the flow of those sentences.

[Khalil]

Have you ever been to Turkey or Lebanon? I would mention Iraq, but that place sucked for reasons having nothing to do with religion.

Nope and I don't plan to. Let me rephrase my sentence. I'm actually talking about places where freedom is actually enforced and not mentioned as having but rarely is it ever enforced. Turkey has had problems with Kurds and other ethnic groups for awhile now.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think I've heard of a country where religion and state is completely divided, where Islam is the most popular religion in said country. I know it's not the same in US or Canada but we're damn near close to that, apart from now, lol. Whole of Europe is a bigoted place, so I'm not gonna mention that.

[Kuya]

Nope and I don't plan to. Let me rephrase my sentence. I'm actually talking about places where freedom is actually enforced and not mentioned as having but rarely is it ever enforced. Turkey has had problems with Kurds and other ethnic groups for awhile now.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think I've heard of a country where religion and state is completely divided, where Islam is the most popular religion in said country. I know it's not the same in US or Canada but we're damn near close to that, apart from now, lol. Whole of Europe is a bigoted place, so I'm not gonna mention that.

Turkey is a secular State, as is Egypt, Pakistan, and as was Iraq. The only explicitly religious State in the region is Iran. You're confusing two different things. The is a difference between a religious State and a State that occasionally acts in a religious manner because its constituents are very religious. Furthermore, Turkey has a strong separation between religion and State as established by its founding by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Turkey's problems with Kurds are of a different element and no different from the various ethnic conflicts throughout the world. Meaning, there is nothing particularly "middle eastern" about the Turkish-Kurdish conflict. If by freedom you mean democracy, that exists in Turkey, among others, and is well enforced, and if by freedom you mean personal freedoms, then that exists to some extent in plenty of States in the Middle East, again, particularly Turkey.

I get the feeling you don't know much about the Middle East.