Abyssea NM Weaknesses

[Byrthnoth]

Okay, mystery solved then. Nynja's day relations thing looks right.

Grellow !! = Spell of an element corresponding to the day before, of, or after the day the NM was popped. - Use these to force more seals to drop, crafting items, or AF3+2 items. Seems to give approximately 2 more slots for seals / AF3+2 items to drop in.

Red !! = Freezebite, Cyclone, Energy Drain, Earth Crusher, Sunburst, Seraph Blade, Red Lotus Blade, Seraph Strike, Raiden Thrust, Shadow of Death, Blade: Ei, Tachi: Jinpu, or Tachi: Koki - Use to force a key item drop. Atma, Abyssite, or Tier 2 NM pop item.

Blue !! = Who the shit knows. Analysis inc probably. - Increases the drop rate of a "Rare" ~10% drop pretty dramatically, but not to 100% even with TH.

[Thorny]

Aero4 and aspir trigger on the same deaggro'd mob

Don't suppose you use logger and could pull it up? That's a pretty concrete 'no' to the day theory, if true.

It'd be nice if true, as it'd make them much easier to find, and I trust Kirschy's data to be accurate. However, concluding it from this mess is laughable at best. To confirm, would need a controlled test of at least 10-15 mobs. Ideally, bring all procs so you can get all of them.. but alternatively should be fine to deaggro for another shot. If it is true, I apologize to Nynja for shooting him down early on, but maintain that the original interpretations were stretching far more than this one.

[Aja]

Sunburst should be in the Red !! list.

[Byrthnoth]

It is likely that it's "day of claim" rather than "day of pop" because otherwise freespawning NMs wouldn't fit the pattern. That also would explain why deagro'd NMs change their weakness.

Re: Aja - My bad, I wrote Starburst instead. Must have been hungry!

[Aja]

Yum. Send me a strawberry one please.

[FailureMidgard]

Don't suppose you use logger and could pull it up? That's a pretty concrete 'no' to the day theory, if true.

It'd be nice if true, as it'd make them much easier to find, and I trust Kirschy's data to be accurate. However, concluding it from this mess is laughable at best. To confirm, would need a controlled test of at least 10-15 mobs. Ideally, bring all procs so you can get all of them.. but alternatively should be fine to deaggro for another shot. If it is true, I apologize to Nynja for shooting him down early on, but maintain that the original interpretations were stretching far more than this one.

There's no reason to apologize to an asshat that tries to stir up drama by saying he was right, when a quick quote of his post shows that his original theory wasn't even this at all, and if people followed it, would in fact be miles away from what is being posted now...he wasn't right, and his theory encompassed ~6 elements to try at any given time (and also could have excluded a correct one to test).

[Sho]

Yes, posting to confirm.

Popped Cep-Kamuy just a few mins ago (Windday). Water IV triggered weakness.

[Kirschy]

Went through my logs to get all red !!s:

Baying Moon - Cyclone
Stronghold - Jinpu + Hobaku used at same time. (I'm going /w Jinpu proc'ing)
Stoutarm - Shadow of Death
Stormbird - Koki
Winged Enigma - Shadow of Death
Baleful Bones - Cyclone
Minkin - Blade: Ei
Khalimari - Cyclone
Eve - Cyclone
Dorian - Red Lotus Blade
Yaanei - Seraph Blade
Luscetia - Energy Drain

Seems to conform to the posted Red !! WS list. It might not be 100% complete, but seems like a good basis to start off /w.

[NynJa]

There's no reason to apologize to an asshat that tries to stir up drama by saying he was right, when a quick quote of his post shows that his original theory wasn't even this at all, and if people followed it, would in fact be miles away from what is being posted now...he wasn't right, and his theory encompassed ~6 elements to try at any given time (and also could have excluded a correct one to test).

Read what you want to read, as usual. My original theory on page 3 actually was covering all three !!'s, not just green. I've narrowed it down to green, and my theory holds water untill now. Sorry fuckface.

[NynJa]

Same with WS. Last night we triggered red !! on Durinn with red lotus blade on lightningday. Sort of hard for me to fit that into the elemental relationship scheme...

I think that people just take note more often when something a spell that correlates with the day happens to be the trigger. I've seen ice3/thunder3 trigger on the same deaggro'd mob, Aero4 and aspir trigger on the same deaggro'd mob. Overall, the most common triggers for me seems to be bio II, drain, aspir...

First of all, my day theory ONLY applies to green, NOT red, so the first paragraph I quoted does nothing against what I've stated.

Secondly, your post about Whiro being weak to blizzard then thunder holds true to my theory. Both those days elements are one right after another, so it makes sense. I'd also like to point out I previously posted that it seems to be top tier nukes that trigger weakness, hence why we arent seeing any Aero3's in scars areas (not sure about visions), since scars pushed RDM's up to aero4. The only thing I'm not sure of if drk top tier elemental tiers do anything.


As far as your Aero 4 > Aspir...I think theres some mis information, because I know you're usually manaburning things with a couple people.

[Byrthnoth]

A day-related theory was correct for Grellow !!. Hooray, that's down and we can all get AF3+2 faster.
We know how to force Red !! (we hope). Hooray, that's down and we can all get AF3+2 faster (and Atma).

Now we need to figure out what determines Blue !!. It appears that WSNM WSs can trigger it but job specific Nyzul WSs cannot. I have seen no reports of a relic WS triggering it, and there's definitely not enough magians of the right path around to tell whether or not Empyreal WSs can trigger it. Physical weaponskills from Shadowstitch to Spinning Attack to Spinning Slash have been reported triggers, though all reports may not be accurate. Right now the distribution is decidedly shifted towards the higher level WSs, but those are also the ones that people are more likely to use so we can't really conclude anything from it. I don't remember seeing anyone claim Tachi: Yuki or Rampage have triggered a Blue !!, yet they've doubtlessly been used, so those may be clues we can work with.

[Raffi_XI]

For the people who have witnessed the blue !!! and did not get the rare drop, was the weaponskill used to proc a common one that could have possibly been used during a tp move / casting and had to be used again to see the proc? I'm asking this because out of the 30+ blue !!! proc's i've experienced, the ONLY non 100% drop was off a sharkbite that had to be redone because the first was done during a tp move.

Is there a chance that even if the log doesnt show the blue !!! proc (due to tp move / spell) the effect still happens? and the no drops is due to double ups?

[Thorny]

Mine had the weaponskills used once each.

[Raffi_XI]

hmm guess we've just been insanely lucky then

[NynJa]

Another note, since I dont want to edit my previous that's like 15 posts away by now. Even IF it can be any element on any day, theres a distinct pattern that shows its usually day of, then either day after or previous day, meaning your best bet to trigger any grellow !!'s is to use elements matching the day of, the day before and the day after.

Hypothetical numbers incoming, presuming the aspir weak mob on windsday and the thunder weak heqet on firesday werent mistakes of multiple nukes landing at once:
NM popped on Windsday
Wind element weakness: 50%
Water/Ice element weakness: 20% (90% total)
Earth/Lightning element weakness: 3% (96% total)
Fire/Light element weakness: 1.5% (99% total)
Dark element weakness: 1% (100% total)


But once again, if someone gets a weakness thats clearly off what I'm saying, and I've got PLENTY of testimonials in this thread holding my day theory in place, trigger it, and then trigger it a second time without anyone else casting, because I've seen my fair share of !!'s pop up that we had no clue what triggered it because 3 spells landed at the same time.

[Clave]

Looked through my logs, and Kagero and Goten were likely false positives :/ I had alliance filters on so I can't tell for sure, but if nobody else has gotten them to proc chances are they don't.

[Jeryhn]

Another note, since I dont want to edit my previous that's like 15 posts away by now. Even IF it can be any element on any day, theres a distinct pattern that shows its usually day of, then either day after or previous day, meaning your best bet to trigger any grellow !!'s is to use elements matching the day of, the day before and the day after.

Hypothetical numbers incoming, presuming the aspir weak mob on windsday and the thunder weak heqet on firesday werent mistakes of multiple nukes landing at once:
NM popped on Windsday
Wind element weakness: 50%
Water/Ice element weakness: 20% (90% total)
Earth/Lightning element weakness: 3% (96% total)
Fire/Light element weakness: 1.5% (99% total)
Dark element weakness: 1% (100% total)


But once again, if someone gets a weakness thats clearly off what I'm saying, and I've got PLENTY of testimonials in this thread holding my day theory in place, trigger it, and then trigger it a second time without anyone else casting, because I've seen my fair share of !!'s pop up that we had no clue what triggered it because 3 spells landed at the same time.

To add to this, we may also have to consider mobs on a case-by-case basis where certain weaknesses may not be possible. For example: Turul casts Thunder spells to heal itself - unless its a huge oversight on SE's part, its not likely that any spell or WS that deals direct Thunder-elemental damage is a possible weakness on Turul.

[Clave]

Healing Mict with WS has been confirmed to trigger !!s (you can't trigger when he's casting). So I would assume it doesn't make a difference for turul. I still wonder if S-E really expected us to trigger red WS on Cuelebre though. Sure you can hit him during Mighty Strikes. But he also has very fast TP use during this.

Edit: Reread, I get what you meant @ turul, he casts on himself. It's also possible that it's irrelevant and only player actions trigger !! anyway.

[Jeryhn]

Edit: Reread, I get what you meant @ turul, he casts on himself. It's also possible that it's irrelevant and only player actions trigger !! anyway.

To test this: Have there been any known cases where automatons (or any pet for that matter) trigger a weakness?
I don't recall one personally.

[Byrthnoth]

To test this: Have there been any known cases where automatons (or any pet for that matter) trigger a weakness?
I don't recall one personally.

Yes, the only reported Tier 5 trigger was an Auto's Stone V.