Abyssea NM Weaknesses

[Latheille]

I was there, the Abyssic Cluster was at about 3%~ and the player who used it was about to unweaken from pulling the Ironclad Severer. (He was double-weakened iirc)

[NynJa]

If they were double weak, then this kinda makes sense. Double weak turns your MAB modifier to 0, which would result in a 0 dmg RLB, and if RLB does 0, then theres 0 to absorb.

However, theres more to the red!! and gameday then meets the eye.

Gukumatz...Energy Drain for Red !!...Windsday

Energy Drain is dark based, and Windsday is nowhere near dark. SC Properties....it cant skillchain.

lacovie - freezebite - iceday 12:45
mictlantecuhtli - shadow of death - iceday 21:45
lacovie - tachi:koko - iceday 23:25
mictlantecuhtli - freezebite - lightsday 11:25

Shadow of Death is dark based, and thats not near Iceday, however its SC properties are Ice/Water.
Tachi:"koko" is light based, not near Iceday, though its SC properties are water/thunder.
Freezebite is Ice based, not near Lightsday, and its SC properties are ice/wind, both not near lights, unless it was claimed on thundersday.

[arus2001]

Most of those are time spawned, no? Was it ever confirmed if weakness is based on pop or claim? I know they "reset" if you lose hate completely, but the game might consider that a generic repop.

[NynJa]

You know, maybe a post I read holds merit. The only posts that seem to deviate from the norm are timed pop NM's...and weaknesses change when it goes passive. Give me a minute, I'll try to find further examples.

meh, lazy, I have pendragoon's "Whiro went from aero4 to aspir", someone elses Heqet being weak to thunder on firesday.

[Arthars]

red !! is any of the 13 real elemental WS. does not follow the "3 days" theory

yellow !! is from the element specific spells from the current,previous and next day elements. altho there are times wheereby after trying all the spells from the 3 days. it still cannot trigger a !! which makes me believe blue magics are cockblocks for this case. There is a 80% chance you will get a yellow !! just from anything besides blue magic. I always do important NMs only on lights and darks day because the chances of casting and landing those spells for weakness is very high ^^ There is no reported spells outside of the 3 days triggering yellow !! yet afaik

blue !! god knows man lol too many WS to try

all NMs reset their weakness upon wipe/reset and you have to do everything over again. We once fought a wamoura NM, triggered !! and then wipe. We reclaim asap after it went passive for like 2 sec(HP didnt regen yet) and thought its fine but when we killed it, only 1 AF+2 item dropped.

time spawned NM also only have specific "3 days" weakness based on the day you pull it.

[NynJa]

Dont pull a Thorny/Failure and dismiss it so quickly. As noted, anything that seems to deviate are timed NM's.

[Thorny]

Dont pull a Thorny/Failure and dismiss it so quickly. As noted, anything that seems to deviate are timed NM's.

Decided on pop and again on deaggro is feasible, yes.

Don't act like the theory we dismissed was anywhere near the current theory, grasping at straws doesn't even begin to describe it.

[NynJa]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/970...=1#post4026376
It was on the right path, with maybe 6 spell/day posts, and you two were right there to go "NONO DOESNT WORK SE DOESNT DO THAT ITS IMPOSSIBLE".

Its done, I give my word I'll stop bringing this up.


Gukumatz - Sunburst - Light/Lightningday pop (it was borderline on the days)
Nehbaku - Ei - Lightsday
Abyssic Cluster - Shadow of Death - Lightsday, could have popped any time
Asan - Cyclone - Lightsday, not sure pop day

[Zubuis]

Not sure if its been mentioned since I hadnt read through all 36 pages.

Of course its totally possible there are additional ws's thats whats listed.

Tonight though we were doing Dvalinn, and I was trying to get people to trigger the red !! to ensure the key item. We had all 13 ws's and I just kept making people do them, even after people had cycled through them all, because Dvalinn kinda a rough mob, does alot of tp moves and whatnot. And I know you're not suppose to do ws when the mob's doing tp moves etc. After about the 5th raiden thrust it finally proc'd the red !!. While its entirely possible that he was timing his ws's wrong, I kinda find it hard to believe that one of the previous 4 didnt trigger it (and he's a competant player). I think Dvalinn's not really the most ideal mob to test this though.

I wonder if maybe the ws isnt a 100% regardless if the mob isnt doing a tp move or

Maybe the mobs weakness isnt static. Maybe it changes every x seconds?

Could possibly be why some people have a hard time proc'ing them. Just a random thought.

[Jeryhn]

Maybe the mobs weakness isnt static. Maybe it changes every x seconds?

Seems unlikely considering you can proc a weakness multiple times, which doesn't change until you either use it a certain number of times or the mob goes passive.

Have fought Ovnis in near-invincible mode where Red triggers were literally 30 mins apart.

[Anomander]

A ls mate reported a few days ago triggering !! with aero IV on thundersday. It was on the popped bat nm in tahrongi, Treble Noctules.

Edit: I should add, they stated it was popped on thundersday. No idea if they have screenshot/logger proof however.

[Alistrianna]

My linkshell also had a problem with triggering Red !! on Ironclad Pulverizer. We did all 13 WS's many times while it was in giant form the first time and nothing triggered it. Hyoton: Ni triggered yellow in the first giant form, but not in the head form. When it re-entered the body Hyoton: Ni triggered yellow again. It wasn't until the second time it re-entered the body at 30% that Seraph Blade finally triggered red !!. Think its safe to say you can't trigger weaknesses on the head form, unless its weaknesses change in that form. Ironclad Pulverizer was popped on Lightningsday.

After the Ironclad Pulverizer, we went to La Theine to get the Atma from Lugahroo. We fought the NM twice to get the Atma, the first time Seraph Blade triggered it, the second time it was Shadow of Death. Flash triggered yellow on first pop, Bio 3 on the second. Both pops were spawned on Darksday.

Next target was Ruminator, although his Atma sucks we attempted to get it anyways. Seraph Blade triggered red !! and either Banish III or Bio III triggered yellow (not sure as aboth spells landed at the same time). Ruminator was spawned on Darksday as well.

The final target was Ovni. Red !! was triggered by Tachi: Koki, after many attempts with all 13 WS's. Yellow !! was triggered by a dark based spell (don't remember which). Ovni was claimed on Darksday as well.

[Massimo]

My linkshell also had a problem with triggering Red !! on Ironclad Pulverizer. We did all 13 WS's many times while it was in giant form the first time and nothing triggered it. Hyoton: Ni triggered yellow in the first giant form, but not in the head form. When it re-entered the body Hyoton: Ni triggered yellow again. It wasn't until the second time it re-entered the body at 30% that Seraph Blade finally triggered red !!. Think its safe to say you can't trigger weaknesses on the head form, unless its weaknesses change in that form.

This would explain a few things if correct, but it would also make it a bit more of a headache. We did trigger red !! in giant form after deaggroing on ours.

Going to pop it again later today and test it.

[FailureMidgard]

Get a fanatics drink or tonic. Pop an iron giant, use it, let it swing at you. The attack rounds will have a name.

Gigas ranged is named catapult if it lands.

These are abilities going by the games code, we refer to them as attack because the mobs spam them.

Yovra tentacle is not one of those.

I have no idea if you added Gigas because of what I said...but Briareus rarely uses Catapult (though does some), and I'm 100% sure that we did all 13 WSes outside of TP moves and Catapult and Stun/etc.

[Laika]

Ok, so I'm 100% sure this list is missing a weaponskill, and in general most of what I've seen suggests it's missing exactly 1 weapon skill...do we have any idea what the last one could be (rumors you've heard of another proc, unverified, etc)?

Prior to the 13 established on wiki and from BG, JP PUG used to do hot shot / flaming arrow as well. However, I have never personally seen either WS proc red, and generally speaking when we have missed !! after doing rotation of 13 once, usually a repeat of the rotation will trigger it even when most people are sure that they did it at the right timing.

Re: pulverizer. I had to earthcrush it twice and I was sure I did it on the correct timing the first time. Some JPs in the group commented that the timing for it is generally a bit weird. Would conclude the same assumption that you guys have made, that some of it's normal attacks count as "abilities." Anyways, I guess the best time to fire is the brief pause post WS and spell. Not a bad idea to fire when the mob first gets engaged as well. Generally see 3 or 4 ws fire at once at the start and will end up getting it right away a decent amount of times.

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, my new strategy is to get 200TP with staff between pops and Sekka Sunburst -> Earth Crusher on pop. The harder NMs get ridiculously spammy at low HP, and if they also cast it's even more of a bitch. Once you get used to their TP move pattern it's a little easier, but that can take a pop or two.

[Thorny]

I have no idea if you added Gigas because of what I said...but Briareus rarely uses Catapult (though does some), and I'm 100% sure that we did all 13 WSes outside of TP moves and Catapult and Stun/etc.

Someone else mentioned it iirc. Personally never failed to get a proc using ~16 WS(I add on the katana and great katana magic damage ones that aren't in Byrth's list. I don't recall a specific occasion where they procced.. but they are magic without a lower tier of the same WS so meh).

[takito09]

Fought Ciren-Croin on windsday and Cold wave triggered yellow !!

[orson]

all NMs reset their weakness upon wipe/reset and you have to do everything over again. We once fought a wamoura NM, triggered !! and then wipe. We reclaim asap after it went passive for like 2 sec(HP didnt regen yet) and thought its fine but when we killed it, only 1 AF+2 item dropped.

I know it's a slightly different point than what you're making but the wipe will not always reset the weakness oddly. We had a Turul that was held for too long so it needed to be reset. Earlier we had triggered yellow and red on it with Bliz 3/4and Red Lotus Blade respectively. After the reset Turul still triggered red with RLB but Bliz didn't work. It seems really wierd how weaknesses are picked.

[Stromgarde]

On Kampe, Dispel followed by Drain on the next pop on Darksday for yellow !!'s.