Hysteria over Muslims spreads all over America!

[Kuya]

I never heard that demagoguery is a liberal cliché. Maybe a politician's cliché, but not a liberal one. And i think the question is a wrong one, or at least, not a relevant one. People don't usually stick to something because they think it's true, they stick to it because it appeals to pre-conceived notions. Truth requires effort, a meticulous and sustained search. I care for truth, because it is a challenge to find it. Just because i am not beyond demagoguery or manipulation, does not mean that i do not care for truth. I mearly do not prefer demagoguery, but i would never deny ever using it.

That is what sets me apart from most liberals in reality, a recognition that logic and reason is not the only way to win a fight. Emotion and familitarity are effective tools. In fact, Machiavelli is one of my favorite political theorists, if only because he is so thourough in his ability to see a situation from various angles.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

The only thing this will shut me up on is that he didn't hate Muslims, oops, I was wrong. What it won't shut me up on is that this is likely only being publicized to the extent that it is because of the ground zero mosque.

Second, Muslims have a history of building mosques as victory symbols. The lead sponsor has made statements that contradict his position that the mosque is about outreach. But, it is complete idiocy to think this is not about outreach.

Yet, it makes complete sense to think this attack was because of supposed right-wing hate speech even when some facts point to the opposite conclusion. He had a diary exhibiting his hatred for Muslims? This indicates a time-frame, likely before the supposed "hate-speech" over the Mosque. Second, his complaints sounds like he's bitter over his time spent in Afghan, not because of Muslims in general.

[Kuya]

Him going to Afghanistan and him having antipathy towards Muslims before all of this, does not preclude that this entire situation set him off.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

That's fine, all I'm saying there is no difference b/w my assertion and yours. Both are conjecture, both are based on some facts, both are possibly incorrect, but neither are stupid.

[archibaldcrane]

What it won't shut me up on is that this is likely only being publicized to the extent that it is because of the ground zero mosque.

Yes.

How does this argument help you again? They're publicizing it because it's the most extreme example of what happens when people hate muslims this much - the same attitudes that are causing the controversy over the mosque.

Muslims do this, Muslims do that, Muslims build victory monuments, see how evil Muslims are?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Yes.

How does this argument help you again? They're publicizing it because it's the most extreme example of what happens when people hate muslims this much - the same attitudes that are causing the controversy over the mosque.

Muslims do this, Muslims do that, Muslims build victory monuments, see how evil Muslims are?

It wasn't intended to help me at all. I'm only saying that it probably wouldn't have gotten this much attention but for the Mosque issue. And it's not the same attitude that's causing controversy over the mosque. If it was, you'd see more of these crimes.

[archibaldcrane]

It wasn't intended to help me at all. I'm only saying that it probably wouldn't have gotten this much attention but for the Mosque issue. And it's not the same attitude that's causing controversy over the mosque. If it was, you'd see more of these crimes.

The attitude that muslims are evil isn't consistent between the Mosque protesters and the guy who stabbed a muslim cab driver?

You aren't that delusional.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

The attitude that muslims are evil isn't consistent between the Mosque protesters and the guy who stabbed a muslim cab driver?

You aren't that delusional.

I think it's a matter of degree which to me is different.

[Kuya]

A crime of hate. Anti-muslim protests. We're supposed to think these are not related?

[archibaldcrane]

I think it's a matter of degree which to me is different.

Sure, some want to violate their property rights, some want to hurt them physically.

If that's the line you're drawing between "the good guys and the bad guys" you're on the wrong side.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Given the guys feelings Kuya, it could just be the fact that the Mosque was built. Your supposed hate-speech may not have even been necessary for him to do this. I don't see why that's not just as plausible as your belief.

[archibaldcrane]

Your supposed hate-speech may not have even been necessary for him to do this.

What's with this "supposed" crap? You yourself are the one saying we should strip Muslims of their property rights because they build monuments to their victories. You are saying that 9/11 is a victory for muslims. You are doing this.

[Mayareira]

ITT: Overly generalized muslims.

We've held caliphate for hundreds of years and our old capital city has over 40 Churches (30+ built after 1453). Heck, some of them even has a significant impact on the skyline of the city.

But when you watch fox news, the only examples they use are the bad ones.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

The attitude to me is still different Archi. Now that doesn't mean I agree with it.

My honest to god view on the mosque covering all the bases is this.

It shouldn't be built due to the insensitivity factor and possible ulterior motives, but the only reason it in fact shouldn't go up is b/c the sponsors choose not to build it b/c they agree with the people who are against it that it's just to insensitive.

Edit: That's not hate speech Archi. There's nothing hateful about it.

[Kuya]

You're right. It's not necessary that this act of violence be directly tied to the anti-mosque/muslim/community center to make the latter wrong and stupid.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Lulz, now your putting words in my mouth. Quote me where I said it was stupid?

[archibaldcrane]

Edit: That's not hate speech Archi. There's nothing hateful about it.

There's nothing hateful about saying 9/11 is a victory for Muslims. Not Al-queda specifically, but Muslims generally.

Got it.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Was it Al-Qaeda that built Mosques for victories over the centuries? But you're right. I do need to rephrase it differently. "The sponsors of this Mosque could be doing it as a symbol of an Islamic Victory."

[Caiyuo]

i love that glenn beck click because instead of arguing with it or even attempting to say it was wrong, they just poke fun at keith. Hilarious

If I met glenn beck, it would be worth the month in jail that I would get for beating the fuck out of him

ethug etc

It turns out Olbermann's mom actually died last year and was well-publicized since I guess she was big on Fox Sports for commentary. I doubt Beck knew that, and sure everyone has probably run into that "oh fuck, wow I didn't know, I'm such an idiot" moment, but he's also a fucking adult and is such going to have to deal with all the "holy goddamn you are a terrible person" coming his way.

[archibaldcrane]

Was it Al-Qaeda that built Mosques for victories over the centuries? But you're right. I do need to rephrase it differently. "The sponsors of this Mosque could be doing it as a symbol of an Islamic Victory."

NOONE THINKS OF 9/11 AS A VICTORY FOR ISLAM EXCEPT FOR AL QUEDA and ANTI-MUSLIM FUCKHEADS LIKE YOURSELF.

Also, Glenn Beck could've raped and murdered a 12 year old in 1992.