Hysteria over Muslims spreads all over America!

[Rothbardian]

since when did hatred, fear, bigotry, etc. and "emotional response" become mutually exclusive. also, why is this such a partisan issue? if it weren't about bigotry or hatred, why are all republicans on the same side

I wouldn't say all Republicans are on the same side, though many are. Notable vocal exceptions being Ron Paul & Pat Buchanan. Still though, it just goes to show how infested the GOP is with Neo-Conservatives.

[Zoolander]

I wouldn't say all Republicans are on the same side, though many are. Notable vocal exceptions being Ron Paul & Pat Buchanan. Still though, it just goes to show how infested the GOP is with Neo-Conservatives.

Things like this (and our military empire) are reasons why the Libertarians/most tea party folks will never succeed. The hypocrisy is just too much of a burden, they (the masses, not the hardcore/educated libertarians) still refuse to properly apply their ideology.

I like that point Kuya brought up earlier too...people really don't understand why 9/11 happened because of the massive political correctness about its events that continues to be perpetuated. It is definitely a huge reason why there is still so much ignorance...I mean how the hell can you form a proper opinion about these events without even knowing the WHY.

[BerenTebogo]

The "they hate our lifestyle and want to kill us!" makes me froth at the mouth whenever I hear it.

[Zilong]

The "they hate our lifestyle and want to kill us!" makes me froth at the mouth whenever I hear it.

I always thought that if this world was an RPG game, America would be the standard evil empire nation with catastrophic agenda.

Perhaps those terrorist are just the Warriors of Light!

[kuronosan]

The "they hate our lifestyle and want to kill us!" makes me froth at the mouth whenever I hear it.

Not to mention the "They're just jealous because we have freedoms and they don't" argument.

[Zilong]

It's more because they are jealous of us being able to eat bacon cheeseburger.

[zoobernut]

It seems like all the arguments against Islam really do assume that every Muslim was born in the middle east or is at least of middle eastern decent or ethnicity. There are white American citizens who were born in this country that are Muslim... what if they want to use the community center? Shouldn't they have the right to have that community center?

Come on you can't deny white American citizens even if you can deny non-white American citizens.

[Effluo]

There are white American citizens who were born in this country that are Muslim... what if they want to use the community center? Shouldn't they have the right to have that community center?

There is no such thing. Stop spreading such lies.

[Plow]

You definitely shouldn't lump all Muslims together with the same kind of thinking and hold them all responsible for something that happened 10 years ago, and accuse them of being freedom-hating terrorists.


However, anyone that's ever understood at all why people might not like the idea of this center should instantly be grouped with everyone everywhere that's ever objected to anything involving Muslims. They're all clearly Muslim-hating rednecks.

[archibaldcrane]

However, anyone that's ever understood at all why people might not like the idea of this center should instantly be grouped with everyone everywhere that's ever objected to anything involving Muslims. They're all clearly Muslim-hating rednecks.

So you think it's possible to find the building of this center "offensive" without feeling that 9/11 was a Muslim victory?

I mean, sure - there are people that hate religion and find any money spent on it to be dumb and terrible, and that's valid - if those are the people you are referring to, sure fine.

I have a feeling you are trying to point to a different group though, and I don't know what group that is. What anti-buildingofthecenter opinion is being suggested that doesn't relate to the Muslim-ness of the center and the proximity to an Al Queda attack location as offensive?

[archibaldcrane]

I'm merely arguing that it's plausible for people to be upset by the construction of this Mosque and that it is not because they're Muslim haters, that's the only burden I'm trying to meet, or capable of meeting on this board.

So your argument is that it's plausible that the Imam in charge of this is a secret Al Queda sympathizer and that it's plausible that he's building this as a victory monument to the 9/11 attacks, and the people that believe that don't have to hate Islam as a whole in order to be upset about it being built. Correct me if I'm wrong - it sounds like that's what you're saying.

I don't think that's plausible, but that's besides the point. What I want to know Swampy, is this:

Do you believe that? Do you, personally, arguing for yourself here, think that Imam Rauf is a secret Al Queda sympathizer who is (at least partly) building this community center as a victory monument for Muslims regarding the 9/11 attacks? Don't speak for anyone else protesting, tell me what you believe - even with the acknowledgment that noone has perfect knowledge or knows exactly what is in the hearts of other people - if you had a gun to your head and had to take your best guess at whether Imam Rauf is a secret Al Queda sympathizer and part of his motivation for building this community center is to secretly erect it as a victory monument celebrating the 9/11 attacks, what would you say?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I think you have my argument right. Although I'm skeptical of using the term Al Qaeda sympathizer.

With a gun to my head I would say he's either full of shit when he says this is about outreach, or he's never "outreached" before. I'm not convinced it's a victory to Islam. I'm like 40/60 that it's not.

[Boyiee]

It is based on both. The only people that should have a real emotional response are those directly tied to deaths from the attack. And most of them understand what America is, and therefore have no problem with it.

The majority of people that I know personally that were directly tied to deaths from the attack, and were in one of the closest buildings not affected by the initial explosions, have the biggest problem with it. These same people are the ones that are against the mosque far more than anyone else I've seen. Every discussion you have with them on the subject, when they get cornered or are blatantly hateful bigots, they finish there argument with "You weren't there, you didn't watch bodies jumping out of windows, you didn't have a fireball come at your windows, you didn't lose anyone there".

[Kuya]

It's a reasonable objection that the guy's history as an embedded journalist has more to do with what he did than recent controversies do, which would mean that the whole stabbing event is a freak occurence that can't honestly be siezed upon as an indication of a popular anti-islamic movement, even if it is like divine providence for those looking to discredit islamophobes as violent bigots and hate criminals. Archi's basically said the same thing, and unless I've misunderstood you you're willing to overlook that possibility since islamophobia does exist one way or another and this event is too valuable as leverage in the popular debate.

Yes. I most certainly agree that his experience in Afghanistan might be more relevant than anything else, and that he decided to attack an actual Muslim now might have been pure coincidence.

[Khalil]

I'm still surprised at the sheer amount of stupidity in your posts. You do realize that the Imam practices a more liberal version of Islam called Sufism. They're mystical in their beliefs but they still believe in a good chunk of what Islam preaches. If you cut the majority of the protesters mainly because they're brainwashed by FauxNews, you'll come down to maybe about a hundred, at best. Now, if you ask them why they're opposed, they'll likely respond that it's just insensitive. Which goes back to the previous argument.

The only thing I will agree with is the funding. However, the same can said about A LOT of companies. While that doesn't negate the fact, why should this particular project be held to a higher standard of scrutiny simply because some bigoted bitch decided it was cool to fucking tweet like a fucking 10 year old.

[Kuya]

Has it been confirmed that the Imam is sufi?

edit: wikipedia says he is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feisal_Abdul_Rauf

[Khalil]

Has it been confirmed that the Imam is sufi?

edit: wikipedia says he is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feisal_Abdul_Rauf

Someone made reference to that fact a week ago. So, I checked it out and he is. Fun fact: Al-Qaeda actively attacks and bombs Mosques that are frequently attended by Sufies. This should tell you that Al-Qaeda believes in no religion but their own, perverted one.

[Zilong]

Was watching colbert, what the fuck is this shit with Glenn Beck becoming the next MLK?

[Faris]

tell me america you want this shit in your country???



thats sufism, its not islam if you ask me...

[pohibaba]

tell me america you want this shit in your country???

thats sufism, its not islam if you ask me...

Why do I care if people stab themselves with needles? I think anyone who worships an invisible man in the sky is a little crazy to begin with. Let them worship here and show everyone around the world that we let anyone be any level of crazy they want to be as long as they aren't hurting others.