Point Allotment, Good idea? Horrible idea? In final version?

[Argh]

the alternative of point allocation would ruin this game, the idea is that your class can go in many directions, if your stats are fixed this is very limited. If you want to be great at anything in an instant, then yeah this sucks, but if you want to be able to adapt overall, its pretty good. How do you balance the many roles a job can play if your stats are statc for that job? You can choose to specialize, you just cant specialize in everything at the same time.
BTW class change mid combat is out the game totally in this version of the beta, if anyone in the party is engaged, they wont let you change class or gear. this may change, but that mechanic is apparently not an option. you could change between engaging mobs though.

Simply have the static stats change automatically when you switch class, the current system is trash.

[Chonataru]

Wait a minute dude...

If we can respec our stats in the first place, how will traits limitation make gimp classes?

Changing job in middle of an instance, for example.
With the actual traits and Marks you just can't switch all stats, so you'll end up having STR DEX with your mage, also, if you use traits to switch stats, you'll skip the other traits (giving you specific power increase on specific skills etc).

A reset-everywhere or a stat-memory (when you switch to conjurer, you have your conjurer stats) are some solutions, if they gimp it, the weapon thing to change job everywhere will be pointless.

[Hyan]

"Gimp" classes != Gimp characters. There's a difference.

[Rrylia]

Seems clear there are a lot of different opinions and it's got people talking - I suppose that can't be a bad thing at least for publicity! I did note on the official FFXIV website the following comment when I first thought about playing the game (which personally, worried me a little);

In general, there is a fourfold classification of adventurers based on the disciplinary paths to which they devote themselves: Disciples of War, masters of arms who live for the call of combat; Disciples of Magic, erudite researchers of all things esoteric; Disciples of the Land, gatherers of material resources and students of the natural order; and Disciples of the Hand, crafters who invest their creative ingenuity in synthesis and industry.

Players may opt to specialize in one discipline, excelling in a single skill, or they may take a more general approach, making free use of the Armoury. The choice is yours.

Instantly this put me in the mind of thinking about which crafts I would level on each character and considering how many characters I would need to fulfiil all my crafting desires. It did seem to suggest to me that I couldn't play every job / craft to its maximum on the same character. Its not currently clear to me how this will apply to crafting (I'm assuming, based on FFXI, that stats don't matter to crafting?) but I look forward to finding out.

Personally, I prefer the "min/maxer" style but it appears the game may be attempting to limit that style of play, as several people have pointed out. Or SE may have forgotten to update the EU site narrative above and changed their mind, equally possible. I did spend quite a while (in between playing FFXI) playing Guild Wars, and that type of "quick switch" of stats, subjob, skills, etc (GW even had templates that could be downloaded and an in-game load/save function) I found after a while didn't really work for me.

However, having said that I liked the flexibility of the FFXI system and being able to change at short notice. As stated - there were so many situations where we held LS events and I had to change from THF to WHM, then we had people with only WHM show up so I switched to BRD, then the main THF decide they can't stay and I switch to THF as no-one else has TH4, to finally end up on COR because we have plenty of the rest of the other jobs by the time the event starts.

Also, people have stated the specific time it takes to change stats - this surely can't be a positive thing, as one of the reasons I am chosing to return to SE's online MMOs is that FFXIV offered the promise of not needing 6 hours straight free before I could achieve anything. I also wanted a change from the days of having to ask friends to gear my char and leave it logged out in the right zone a day in advance for events etc and dislike the idea I might have to spend 3 hours changing my char because I don't feel like playing the job I left it on the last time I logged off.

A post above noted there was a way in which stats could be swapped via points - hopefully that system will be adopted in the open beta and retail.

Also, to complain about people comparing FFXIV to FFXI is silly - there are a number of really quite direct parallels which SE have perpetuated themselves (the races being practically identical with different names, having "linkshells" again instead of something different, having the same stat names, etc) that make FFXI a valid comparison for FFXIV.

[dunpeal]

Instantly this put me in the mind of thinking about which crafts I would level on each character and considering how many characters I would need to fulfiil all my crafting desires.

this is something i am very curious about. it would be nice to be able to max out 2 or 3 crafts (or all of them) on one character given armorer and blacksmith are now two separate crafts. also hope fishing stays its own unique class that can be maxed out without cutting into other crafts like FFXI.

that may be hoping a little too much. i could also see how they could make crafts slightly stat dependent (say str and dex could yield better mining or alchemy depends a bit on int) could be interesting.

edit: seems this post may be slightly off topic now that i think about it. sorry.

[Izlude]

This stat system seems really awkward and limiting at the moment.

Why're the taking such a huge step backwards making it take longer to fully optimally switch jobs when you could do it on the fly in FFXI as many times in a day as you wanted? I would most likely be staying on one job or in one set of disciplines at most in a system like this because I really don't like half-assing jobs that I like to play. People keep saying what's 1% on the parse, what's 2% etc... It all adds up if 30 people show up and are still allocating points and 5% or whatever it is less damage than they could have been doing.

I see you guys making a good point that there's no real reason for concern cause hybrids get to play as they want and min/max'ers can just stay on limited jobs and play as they want. But I was reading in that Famitsu interview today about how they have some sort of fatigue/latency system which prevents you from being on a certain job all the time? I'm not too sure about the specifics but if it prevented me from being a dirty "min/maxer" I'd have a hard time playing this game.

So I guess we'll see...

[Celeras]

This stat system seems really awkward and limiting at the moment.

Why're the taking such a huge step backwards making it take longer to fully optimally switch jobs when you could do it on the fly in FFXI as many times in a day as you wanted? I would most likely be staying on one job or in one set of disciplines at most in a system like this because I really don't like half-assing jobs that I like to play. People keep saying what's 1% on the parse, what's 2% etc... It all adds up if 30 people show up and are still allocating points and 5% or whatever it is less damage than they could have been doing.

Did you forget that Merit Points exist or what? This is the same result with a different system.

[Deadgye]

What is the exact amount of time it takes to reallocate your stats? I saw "15 minutes cooldown" a few times in this thread but when I tried to figure it out earlier the button was still grayed out after half an hour.

[shaddix]

Hopefully stats will be almost as useless as they are in 11.

[Coren]

All on top of the fact that you CAN respec if you wanted to switch your main permanently, as you could with merit points in XI. This is a non-issue, quit bitching.

I don't want anything permanent. That's the whole crux of the argument. I liked tanking in ffxi, however because my merits were in int and other mage-related items, I was never quite as good as somebody with a nin main.

It sounds like the ideal solution is to have your stats change when you put on a different weapon. However this would presumably lead to easily gaming the system by changing wherever and whenever you want (I'm not convinced it's a bad thing, if a little unrealistic).

Perhaps if you change jobs near an aetherite, you can change stats instantly, but if you are out in the field, they take time to adjust. Say you want to go from 40int/pie to 40str/dex, it would take 15 min to fully adjust. However at higher lvl, 80int would take 30 min to adjust to 80 str. Theoretically, you would pre-set what stats you wanted, and they'd just move at a specific rate of, say, 3 points/minute. Really it's irrelevant. This is more about balancing the people that have multiple jobs (I played a nin, drg, and blm) and want to be able to change at will if need be. This game is supposedly premised on being able to just throw on a new weapon and go. If I have to wait 3 hours to make my thaum have more than 15 int, there's a problem. The traits are nice and helpful, but do not solve the problem.

You should be able to change your stats as often and easily as you change weapons, with no cooldown. At least if I'm in town, or otherwise not on a raid or something, I should not be penalized by any stupid cooldown. Specifically, I'm thinking about some CoP battles where I ended up trying out 3 or 4 different jobs before we found the right combination. Having an outside-of-town adjustment period should be a good compromise.

[Charismatic]

Just equip some of the stat change traits and stop whining.

[Deadgye]

I liked tanking in ffxi, however because my merits were in int and other mage-related items, I was never quite as good as somebody with a nin main.

Seriously? Get over yourself. The difference in minuscule. The only difference at all came from combat skills, and could result in a max of 5% acc difference. (Which was easily overturned by gear and food.)

God, it's almost like everyone complaining has no clue what they're complaining about.

[Coren]

Seriously? Get over yourself. The difference in minuscule. The only difference at all came from combat skills, and could result in a max of 5% acc difference. (Which was easily overturned by gear and food.)

God, it's almost like everyone complaining has no clue what they're complaining about.

It's more that the people you played with thought that you were automatically inferior, even though the difference is miniscule.

Part of the main draw for ffxiv in SE's eyes is the ability to change jobs whenever you want. You are not fully changing jobs unless your stats change as well. The traits should be there to help boost your character further, not to act as a substitute because your stats won't change for 3 more hours.

[Hyan]

Page 6: New and original views on the subject.

[Deadgye]

It's more that the people you played with thought that you were automatically inferior, even though the difference is miniscule.

You played with some elitist assholes then, and they're the ones to blame.

Part of the main draw for ffxiv in SE's eyes is the ability to change jobs whenever you want. You are not fully changing jobs unless your stats change as well. The traits should be there to help boost your character further, not to act as a substitute because your stats won't change for 3 more hours.

Or you could, you know, instantly redistribute 25% of your total points. You can't be the absolute best in everything at all times, that's just stupid. You aren't a red mage.

[Coren]

You played with some elitist assholes then, and they're the ones to blame.


Or you could, you know, instantly redistribute 25% of your total points. You can't be the absolute best in everything at all times, that's just stupid. You aren't a red mage.

Isn't it amazing how the best players are always "elitist assholes"? Why are there FFXI threads hundreds of responses long about what is the absolute best way to do *anything*. Whether its what merits, what gear, what skills, whatever, people want to be the best. That means not being gimped, however slightly, by some bullshit system.

And absolutely I disagree; how good a player is in a game should depend on a player and his actions, not on whether he's allowed to redistribute skill points now or in a couple hours because of a cooldown.

[BlackheartX]

Isn't it amazing how the best players are always "elitist assholes"? Why are there FFXI threads hundreds of responses long about what is the absolute best way to do *anything*. Whether its what merits, what gear, what skills, whatever, people want to be the best. That means not being gimped, however slightly, by some bullshit system.

And absolutely I disagree; how good a player is in a game should depend on a player and his actions, not on whether he's allowed to redistribute skill points now or in a couple hours because of a cooldown.

Simple answer is this, how people are cultured whether consciously or subconsciously represents itself in the game world maybe sometimes even morphing or intensifying sociology to accommodate new norms or perceived expected behavior of their new E-environments or E-interactions. Also a simple explanation of the type of elitism you mentioned is defined as the elitist's need to rectify identify by describing self in comparison to an "Other" therefore "Gimp".

[Didler]

So has there been any info on which stats are to benefit DoH?

[Coren]

Simple answer is this, how people are cultured whether consciously or subconsciously represents itself in the game world maybe sometimes even morphing or intensifying sociology to accommodate new norms or perceived expected behavior of their new E-environments or E-interactions. Also a simple explanation of the type of elitism you mentioned is defined as the elitist's need to rectify identify by describing self in comparison to an "Other" therefore "Gimp".

Thank you e-dr phil.

To stay on topic-ish, I haven't seen anything regarding *any* stats affecting DoH/L. I'm still hoping.

[BlackheartX]

Absolutely Coren!