Post Pictures of Your Gear XIII: You're Doin' It Wrong

[Kensagaku]

I'm not skipping it, I'm working on it once I get the other, easier-to-obtain (with the exception of the lance itself) equipment. >.>;

[Prothescar]

Remade my gearsets to accomodate newer items which allow for bullwhip belt. Tactical Mantle is silly and I do not consider it an option.

TP

WS

Alternative for the TP set is Bullwhip for Goading while switching Ace's Leggings for Lancer +2, which in retrospect is the superior option.

[Nightfyre]

Was mostly in response to the post above mine, I saw that you're working on it.

Looking at Rez's suggested build, swap Zahak's for +2 body and maybe use Anguinus, I'll check that later this evening. Mekira-oto +1 is technically your best Drakes head assuming minimal gains from Twilight's DEX but it's not cheap.

[Prothescar]

Actually nevermind, stupid idea was stupid.

Though I will add that extra Store TP may be needed in the TP set as iirc the OAT weapons add a bit of -delay when they're +3'd, unless that was only the 2-4s.

[TSFFXI]

I haven't +3'd mine, but bgwiki doesn't show a loss of delay.

You could switch Rose Grip > Arbuda Grip and Blitz Ring > Tyrant's Ring for a gain of 8 attack and a loss of subtle blow (assuming you could ever get anything to drop in Voidwatch ; .

[TSFFXI]

Ocassionaly Posts Twice

[Rez]

Clearly I made a mistake in leaving certain doors open in the hope people would follow their own route.

At no point did I suggest that the example ( and indeed that is all it is ) was the best setup.

@ TSFFXI I've never seen anyone wearing that setup since it was stated that it came off the top of my head. That however is not a cogent argument as to the merits of my example. I see mainly gimps everyday I play, perhaps we should all gear like retards.

As far as too much STp, you need to read carefully what the post stated. 45 Store TP is required if you distribute all hits evenly, with all generating the same TP return. Clearly the WS build does not contain the same STp as the TP phase. Therefore you have to add additional TP at some point to compensate for the loss. The example sets given will generate 101(.x) TP after 4 melee hits and 1 WS, given the presumption you don't rely on Drakesbane landing 4+ hits every time (it won't). This also eliminates all other outside TP source factors, making it a 'true' 5 hit build.

Also bear in mind this is not a campaign marketing that 5 hit builds are preferable to 6, I do not state such.

I encourage people to build according to what they have access to, and if you disagree with my template, so be it. Make sure your understanding of the math used is correct however, or simply ask if not.

I would also strongly suggest to anyone looking to build on their DD to never drop below the 25 % Haste mark in optimal TP setups/conditions. ( If it's felt that the additional ~1% is too much of a compromise, I can certainly see that point of view ).

@ Prothescar I actually agree that using a Tactical mantle isn't the option I would take, but bear in mind I have already pointed out this selection is made on a basis of several assumptions on my part.

A counterpoint for you: if dropping the beneficial stats on the back is too much for you, why then have you on two occasions listed Timarli dastanas over Dusk gloves +1? I don't see the reason for the loss of attack, that includes the very minor benefit of Str or the idea that people can macro in movement + gear but somehow can't macro out movement - items. As mentioned previously, the price should not be an issue, making Dusk the easier to obtain also.

[Rez]

Apologies, that looks longer than it did on my screen pre submit button.

I assure you I generally try to spell correctly and use grammar though, if that helps any, even if I am a filthy foreigner :/

[TSFFXI]

Your spelling looks fine~

I did misread your post; I didn't see the Twilight Mail in your WS set. I think this set achieves a 5 hit, too, and with fewer drawbacks.

If you use the set Prothescar posted, replacing Almah with Houyi's (it has better melee stats anyway), you should get 13.81*1.46= 20.1(rounded down) TP/melee hit.
If you switch Twilight for +2 in Rez's WS set, as Nightfyre suggested, you should get 13.81*1.42= 19.6(rounded down) TP from the 1st hit of Drakesbane.

So it should be a "true 5 hit" without needing Tactical.

I don't want to answer for Prothescar, but Atheling vs. Tactical is a trade of 45 attack and 3% DA while Timarli vs. Dusk +1 is only 6 attack. They're not really on the same scale. Damage-wise it's a no brainer; you want the dusk +1. Yet even though it's not very difficult to hit a macro when you want to run, it's kind of nice not to have to. I use Timarli whenever I'm feeling lazy.

[Prothescar]

I don't want to answer for Prothescar, but Atheling vs. Tactical is a trade of 45 attack and 3% DA while Timarli vs. Dusk +1 is only 6 attack. They're not really on the same scale. Damage-wise it's a no brainer; you want the dusk +1. Yet even though it's not very difficult to hit a macro when you want to run, it's kind of nice not to have to. I use Timarli whenever I'm feeling lazy.

This, dusk would be better but I'm too cheap to buy them even now that they're dirt cheap. Minor difference in any case compared to the massive attack difference and DA loss of Tactical vs. Atheling. :X

[noodles355]

Don't think there's many changes once it hits 95. After I finish OAT lance, Pole Strap will be replaced with Sword Strap. Not hugely interested in 5hit, with OAT lance I can't see it being much better than 6hit - it sacrifices haste/DA/TA, and some of the setups above rely either on a VW drop to work, or require a full return drakesbane everytime. Also there's TP overflow, which would be about 20TP bonus, which would be like 1% crit? Very minor.
TP: (Back is Atheling, Ear is Ethereal > Dragonkin at 95. Rancor for TP or stick with Torque?)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...104_124152.png

Drakesbane: (Ares's Curiass inside Abyssea. Sonic Thrust uses the same set as outside-abyssea Drakes, but with Love Torque over Rancor. Augmented Heca+1 > Af3+2 feet, low priority a the moment though, other jobs need more important stuff first.)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...104_124205.png

Spirit/Soul Jump:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...104_124221.png

Jump/High Jump: (High Jump uses Af3+2 feet, not AF1+1)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...104_124237.png

PDT: (Flume Belt @95, Rings are 5%PDT and 6%PDT/4%MDT. Needs Melaco Mitts and Gavial +1. Been camping AH for gavial for years, no 106 Boner in LS. Also VW PDT body of course.)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...104_124300.png

MDT: (Uses same rings as PDT set, equipping both to garantee the MDT one is equipped)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...104_124309.png

Healing Trigger:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...104_124353.png

Healing/Restoring/Smiting Breath: (Obviously Max HP doesn't do anything for Smiting, but it needs Wyrm Armet, so just swaps the lot in for convinience. Needs AF3 neck and Glassblowers.)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...104_124418.png

[Kensagaku]

And now you remind me what I should have saved my Strendu Mantle for; higher HP Healing Breath triggers. FML, I tossed it.

TP: It's possible to make a 5-hit while /SAM with capped haste without too many sacrifices: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/221068. Mind you, this isn't a "true" 5-hit, as I haven't factored in STP on WS. Your set is probably better for /mage though, so that you can keep capped haste and make up for the extra hit with the DA/TA. Might be better to switch grip to Pole Grip, perhaps, instead of sword grip? Just a suggestion; I'm not mathy so I'm not sure that's best.

Drakesbane: Aug'd Hecatomb/+1 feet might be better, especially if you get a strong STR+ augment and perhaps some Polearm Skill for icing on the cake.

Spirit/Soul Jump set: crit > attack > STR focus? Still working on rebuilding mine so considering what to put into it. It looks good, I just remember that VIT mod doesn't affect it like it does jump. Also, would STP possibly be better if it knocks off an extra hit at the loss of 100 or so damage?

Trigger: What are the hands/waist in that one? Pretty sure neck is Ritter.

Healing Breath: Don't forget Lancer's Earring for an additional 20 HP. If inventory space is an issue, toss Ostreger's, you'll still get a 10 HP boost from the old. I'm assuming back is Lancer's Pelerine? Set looks pretty solid though.

[TSFFXI]

Hands in the trigger set are Ares's.

I don't think you actually need to use the +2 body in your WS set to maintain your 6-hit. Is it still the best WS body? You trade attack for accuracy and 1 STR/DEX with Twilight. I'm not sure what the other options are.

If you use the set Kensagaku posted, you lose a ~5% damage increase not equipping the DA/TA legs and 5% crit. rate from Rancor Collar, but gain a 20% increase in Drakesbane frequency going from a 6 hit to a 5 hit. If you swap Tyrant's Ring into your WS set, you only need to land 1 additional hit on Drakesbane. If you miss them... use Spirit Link.

I'm kind of lost now. The set posted earlier gets 20.1 TP/hit and 19.6+0~3 from Drakesbane but has (at most) .5% less haste than the set Kensagaku posted. It seems worth it to use Kensagaku's set, given how probable it is you won't miss all three extra hits. Am I wrong?

[noodles355]

The belt in trigger set is Nirenschuz, I don't have a HP+ belt yet so it's just something to remove bullwhip. Augmented Heca+1 would be best, but I'm not wasting gil and tatters on augmenting the NQ. Only reason I'm not actively out farming suzaku pops right now is other things take priority at the moment.
Soul/Spirit jumps auto-crit, which is why no rancor's, however regular Jump/High Jump aren't auto-crit, hence the rancor for them (sometimes the wyvern dies, then Jump is worth using again).
Sword strap would take OAT lance to 492 delay, and concidering you can't DA on an OAT proc, and that they were close before, Sword's delay should win.

Swapping to a 5 hit wouldn't be a 20% increase though, due to TP overflow. What's the distribution on OAT weapons? 60%/40%? So a 12% increase in WS frequency if that's the case. However, it's also not a streight 12% increase in WS frequency, it's less than that because DA/TA from legs and -3% delay from sword strap also increase WS frequency by (assuming 40/60 on OAT: 1.1% from DA + 3% from sword strap + 2.4% from TA) 6.5%. So infact, whereas you think it increases WS frequency by 20%, as that's what going from 6 to 5 hit normally does, in this case it actually only increases WS frequency by 5.5%. Furthermore it's not a simple 5% damage loss in the TP phase as you're ignoring jumps. You'd have to keep the dedicated STP options in for Jump, lowering jump damage as well.

I just don't see it being that much better than a 6 hit with Sword Strp and the above gear, there's a chance that all things concidered it comes out pretty equal and if that's the case, concidering I already have the (ideal? any improvements to 6hit setup?) 6hit setup, and that the 5hit requires a VW drop which i could get 3 of tomorrow, or could never see in my life, I can't see the point in changing to it.

Btw, should I be using Rancor for TP as well? I was never sure on that and keep hearing mixed opinions.

[Kensagaku]

I need to stop typing after spending all night writing for NaNoWriMo. I say a lot of stupid stuff, and forget auto-crit on Soul/Spirit Jump or the fact that DA and OAT don't proc together.

[TSFFXI]

Thanks for correcting me on the 20%. You raise a lot of good points. I overlooked STP in jump sets for the "true" 5 hit... I'm not sure anyone would want to jump in a goading belt.
I did neglect the extra damage from jumps, but because the recast on jumps is fairly high compared to melee delay and because the increase in DA is fairly small (1% from belt) between sets the overall difference is a fraction of a percent. It looks like you'll gain 30-ish attack on jumps using a 6hit?
Maybe someone who has looked into it more can defend the 5-hit. I don't want to detract from your original question, but I don't really see any major improvements that need to be made in your 6 hit anyway. Rancor Collar over Love Torque for melee

The trouble is that if you swap out goading belt for jumps with the "true" 5hit, you'll need to have landed two extra hits on Drakesbane (unless there's another way to make up the lost TP). As for other slots, I don't really consider jumping in the +2 body to be much of a burden. I actually prefer a bit more accuracy for jumps since it's crushing when they miss.
If you have a regain earring from WoTG it's no big deal, but I feel like that's cheating.

On a side note, is ffxiah tallying the STP in your set incorrectly, Kensagaku? I keep getting 45.

[noodles355]

Since being shown in the What's better thread that it is infact 20%ish and not 5%ish, it seems 5hit was much better than I'd expected. I'll definitely keep the 6hit I posted above for use with a 492 delay lance, but after I eventually do OAT lance, I'll need to look at 5hit. Did you guys agree on what was the best 5hit setups for TP/WS/Jumps? I know jumps weren't mentioned but as there's been a lot of drg talk on the last 2 pages, let's keep it up! Would love to figure out the best gearsets for OAT lance. I'll probably post some ideas, see if I'm in the right area tomorrow, it's late now.

[TSFFXI]

I can post a summary of what I've read. Hopefully someone can go through the sets and make improvements.
Corsesca base TP: 13.0 + [(507 - 480) * 1.5] / 50 = 13.81

/SAM is assumed.

True 5hit Total Haste: 24.5ish
TP (switch neck to Houyi's): 46 STP (ffxiah incorrectly shows 46 STP.)
TP/melee hit: 13.81*[1+0.46]=20.1 (truncated)
WS: 42 STP (ffxiah incorrectly shows 43)
TP/WS: 13.81*[1+0.42]=19.6+0~3

True 5hit Total Haste: 25%
TP: 45 STP (ffxiah incorrectly shows 46)
TP/melee hit: 13.81*[1+0.45]=20.0
You can substitute Houyi's Gorget for the Rancor Collar in the other WS set to get 45 STP.
TP/WS: 13.81*[1+0.45]=20.0+0~3

Jumps
Set 1: Jumps mess the first set up. If you jump in anything less than 46 STP, you'll need to make up for it by landing an extra hit on Drakesbane (two for Soul Jump).
Set 2: Jumps don't mess this set up. Jumping in the WS set (with Houyi's, Lancer +2 legs and feet) gives a base of 20 TP.

I'd think the second set, with the aforementioned switch to Houyi's in the WS set, is better since it can work with jumps.

[Prothescar]

FFXIAH doesn't discount latents. It's showing all 20 from Rose Strap.

[TSFFXI]

Ah.... Thank you.