Post Pictures of Your Gear XIII: You're Doin' It Wrong

[Kensagaku]

Second TP set is actually 26% Haste. Just pointing that out. 6+4+7+4+5 = 26. So it's a "true" 5-hit while being capped on haste, score. Yay for tossing pieces together and making a reasonable set.

[TSFFXI]

I just wrote the values you actually get. My intention was to show that the second set capped haste while the first fell a fraction of a percent short.

[Prothescar]

My set isn't "true" I suppose, no. You aren't likely missing 3 hits on Drakesbane though. It's more of an issue in abyssea where you won't likely be under the effect of a regain of any potency. Substituting rancor collar out for store tp is a ridiculous idea. :\

Also, you need 4 hits after the WS to reach 100TP. 20.1TP x 4 = 80.4

80.4 + 19.6 = 100


I would go so far as to say drop almah torque/heyouguys collar for Agasaya or Rancor in TP, or Goading for Bullwhip. If you can't rely on a single extra hit form drakesbane landing you have bigger problems. The chances of you missing 3/4 hits of drakesbane are lower than the chances of you missing the main hit of drakesbane which would fuck you regardless.

[TSFFXI]

Yep, they both get to 100% in one WS and four melee rounds. The problem with the first set is that you need to get a 20.1 TP return after jumps (if you miss all three extra Drakesbane hits) or you'll end up short, and the only way I can think of getting that is by jumping in your melee set (which includes Goading Belt).
Realistically, the likelihood of missing all three hits is pretty low, and the Save TP trait might kick in even if you do. I don't really know how to account for those in calculations.

Switching Rancor Collar for Houyi's (in the second set) can probably be shown to be a poor choice. If you don't, you need an extra Drakesbane hit, but that's probably going to happen anyway. I think you'd have to calculate the probability of missing all three extra Drakesbane hits and compare the lowered expected WS frequency to the 5% Crit. Rate bonus from Rancor.

The only real difference between the sets is that the 1st gets to use a Rancor Collar and the second gets an extra ~.5% haste.

[Prothescar]

The chances of missing all three extra hits on drakesbane are under 2%, you don't need math to realize how bad of an idea it is to substitute rancor collar for houyi's in WS set. Expected weaponskill frequency changes sub-marginally. One could argue for the neck piece or waist in the top set to be switched out for rancor or bullwhip as well. Again, the chances of missing all three hits of drakesbane is less likely than missing the first hit of the weaponskill unless it's an incredibly dire and stilted circumstance, like you're flashed or blinded by hurricane wing.

Rancor Collar is the superior option.

[Shenrien]

CDC
http://i39.tinypic.com/v42hrc.png

TP
http://i41.tinypic.com/fn9wr6.png

Heca Leggings and Subligar are unaugmented, still working on getting 4% crit hit damage on hands, currently @ 3% & 1 sword skill.

looking for some ideas for improving CDC and TP, moonshade is Acc +4 / Regain +1 probably going to change that to Attack +4 / TP bonus +25% cause I'm not, exactly happy with it.

I've also got P.abjuration feet, but currently 0/4 on -1 and I don't really wanna NQ them :/

[Pandum]

CDC: n.head+1 with da+4, n.legs+1 with crit4, maybe jupiters pearl til you change earrings?

TP: creed body+2 or grim+1 for tp, ninurta's/kaggen belt, rancor for ochain tanking weak shit, oneiros pebble/anything better than egoists

[noodles355]

The drg stuff: Would replacing Ace's Hose with Calmecac be better? Is going from 25% to true-25% Haste worth the loss of 2%DA/2%TA? I know that it isn't worth the loss of 20Att and 3% DA, else we'd have been concidering Pelerine instead of Atheling.

There is also the option of TPing in a Regain moonshade earring. For the gear below, if you used a regain moonshade, one tick of regain would allow you to remove Chiv Chain in place of Rancor Collar. 2 ticks would let you swap hagneia for thew bomblet on top of that. 3 ticks would let you swap out chiv chain/tyrant/aces for rancor/blitz/calmecac.
Ok, so now:
WS Set:
OAT/Rose/Hagneia
Twilight/Rancor/Dragonkin/Brutal
AF3+2/AF3+2/Tyrant/Rajas
Atheling/Anguinus/Af3+2/Heca+1
42STP, 19.6%TP. Assume always at least 3hit Drakes, 98-19.6= 78.4, 19.6TP needed per melee hit, 43STP needed.
TP:
OAT/Rose/Hagneia
AF3+2/Rancor/Dragonkin/Brutal
Af3+2/Dusk+1/Tyrant/Brutal
Atheling/Bullwhip/Ace's/Af3+2
26%. 42STP. One STP short, so use Chiv Chain, fixes STP and best DD option in slot.

Jump gear:
OAT/Rose/Hagneia
Twilight/Chiv/Dragonkin/Brutal
AF3+2/Af3+2/Tyrant/Brutal
Atheling/Anguinus/Af3+2/Heca+1

Best I can come up with, requires 3/4 hit drakesbane (should be fine) but limits you to that, meaning no Sonic Thrust/Wheeling Thrust. Of course, there is also the moonshade option to concider, mentioned above.

Now because I'm curious to see how much the 5hit pulls ahead, been trying to math it out, but I'm unsure how to calulate crit hit rate+ as a form of +%DoT. I also don't know what an OAT Drg's WS/TP/Jump distribution is. I'd assume something like 75/15/10 or something maybe? Anyone got OAT parses who could tell me?

Spoiler: show

According to Foldypaws, going to 5hit with Corseca is a 23.6% increase in WS frequency.

Now to compare what we lose by using 5hit to 6hit:
TP Phase:
-3% 2H Weapon Delay (Rose>Sword)
-2Str -5Att (Hagneia>Thew)
-5% Crit -1Acc +3Str
-7Str +6Att (Dusk+1>Ace's)
+8Att (Tyrant>Blitz)
-2Acc -2%DA -2%TA +12Att (Ace's>Calmecac)
Total: -6Str -5%Crit -2%DA -2%TA (-3Acc) -3% 2H Delay :: +17Att
(Acc bracketed as assuming capped)
WS Phase:
-2Str -5Att (Hagneia>Thew)
-7Str +8Att (Tyrant>Pyrosoul)
(Inside byssea: +2Str -10Att (Af3+2>Ares))
Total: -9Str -4Att | -7Str -12Att (A) (6.75 rounds to 7, 5.25 rounded to 5)
Jump Phase:
-2Str -5Att (Hagneia>Thew)
+1Str -3Acc -8Att (Chiv>Agasaya)
+2Str -10Att (Af3+2>Ares)
-7Str +8Att (Tyrant>Pyrosoul)
Total: -6Str -14Att

Let's Assume both Fodder trash, Lv97, 91Vit/378Def (With Dia II), and Bukhis, Lv101, 110Vit/504 Def. Just because I have the data for this from a Thf spreadsheet. Most fodder stuff now is T~, rarely fighting IT things, so will leave them at Lv97, but for Bukhis (just a reletively tough NM to use as a basis, outside abyssea) I'll bump him up 5 levels to Lv106 to try and be a bit more realistic.
Gonna assume mithra (as I'm one) with 8/8 Polearm 8/8 Str.
TP: 121 Str, 628 Att. 60/40 Distribution on OAT.
Misc: 3% Melee delay = 3%. 2% TA = 2.4%. 2% DA = 1.1% = -6.5%
Crit: +5% = God knows (help?)
fStr (Bukhis): ((((121-110)+4)/4)+102)/((((115-110)+4)/4)+102) = 105.75/104.25 = 105/104 = -1.0%
cRatio (Bukhis): ((645/504)-(0.05*11))/((628/504)-(0.05*11)) = +4.8%
fStr (Fodder): ((((121-91)+4)/4)+102)/((((115-91)+4)/4)+102) = 110.50/109 = 110/109 = -0.9%
cRatio (Fodder): ((645/378)-(0.05*2))/((628/378)-(0.05*2)) = +2.9%
Total (Bukhis): -2.7% (-Whatever you get from 5% Crit) TP DoT lost
Total (Fodder): -4.5% (-Whatever you get from 5% Crit) TP DoT lost

WS: 155 Str, 659 Att. 60/40 Distribution on OAT.
Misc: 3% Melee delay = 3%. 2% TA = 2.4%. 2% DA = 1.1% = -6.5% to WS frequency
fStr (Bukhis): ((((155-110)+4)/4)+102+77(WSC))/((((146-110)+4)/4)+102+73(WSC)) = 191.25/185 = 191/185 = -3.2% damage through fStr/WSC.
cRatio (Bukhis): ((659/504)-(0.05*11))/((655/504)-(0.05*11)) = -1.0% to WS damage
fStr (Fodder): ((((155-91)+4)/4)+102+77(WSC))/((((146-91)+4)/4)+102+73(WSC)) = 196/189 = -3.7% damage through fStr/WSC.
cRatio (Fodder): ((659/378)-(0.05*2))/((655/378)-(0.05*2)) = -0.6% to WS damage
6hit to 5hit: 23.6%
Total (Bukhis): +12.9% WS DoT gained
Total (Fodder): +12.8% WS DoT gained

Jumps: 153 Str, 681 Att
fStr (Bukhis): ((((153-110)+4)/4)+102)/((((147-110)+4)/4)+102) = 113.75/112.25 = 113/112 = -0.9%
cRatio (Bukhis): ((681/504)-(0.05*11))/((667/504)-(0.05*11)) = -3.6%
fStr (Fodder): ((((153-91)+4)/4)+102)/((((147-91)+4)/4)+102) = 118.50/117 = 118/117 = -0.9%
cRatio (Fodder): ((681/378)-(0.05*2))/((667/378)-(0.05*2)) = -2.2%
Total (Bukhis): -4.5%
Total (Fodder): -3.1%

Totals I came up with (Gain from swapping to 5hit form 6hit (using my posted 6hit earlier in topic, with sword strap over pole)):
Harder stuff:
TP Phase: -2.7% -The boost 5% Crit gives
Jump Phase: -4.5%
WS Phase: +12.9%
Weaker stuff:
TP Phase: -4.5% -The boost 5% Crit gives
Jump Phase: -3.1%
WS Phase: +12.8%

I *think* it accounts for everything except Rancor's crit in TP phase. Outside abyssea only, no food or buffs. Looks like it's pretty significant, guessing around a 10%ish increase? I think using Regain Moonshade would be the best option for it though as even 1tick lets you use Rancor in TP set. Haven't played drg in a long time so unsure how frequently you TP to 100% in under 9 seconds (Assuming Haste/Hasso) but if it's not regularly, you could also look at blitz/calmecac combo. If it is too regularly for your liking, I still feel Calmecac and 25% haste might beat Ace's and 6% haste with tyrant ring.

[Darkmagi]

Twilight helm>nhead. I don't think you will be capping acc in zahaks mail on high tier VW, I prefer twilight mail personally. Grim+1 would probably beat out zahaks on anything you're capping acc and not capping atk too I'd think. So jealous of pfeet
edit: Acc is assuming you're eating RCB and not something like sushi or pizza, I prefer using atk food with constant stalwarts, aggressor, and enlight.

[Kalasin]

Twilight helm>nhead. I don't think you will be capping acc in zahaks mail on high tier VW, I prefer twilight mail personally.
edit: Acc is assuming you're eating RCB and not something like sushi or pizza, I prefer using atk food with constant stalwarts, aggressor, and enlight.

This, and I find AF3 body superior to Twilight to TP in when MP isn't really an issue.

[Draylo]

Anyone know how much better Nin sash/mars ring is over goading/blitz? I currently use goading/blitz but can use nin/mars.

[Rez]

I can't imagine that you're going to miss the 2% DA TA as much as it seems you're making out, particularly as you're singling this out for use with an OAT lance.

If you have the Regain earring, and have no immediate plans to remake it with different augments, then use it.

I haven't looked at your notation of math in any real depth yet, so perhaps you can answer if you've taken into account the use of Sekkanoki and Meditate for situations where you overshoot 100 TP during your Melee phase.

A 5 hit build is extremely unlikely /Mage if that is something you may want to suggest, and I have serious doubts that someone would sub a Mage job for tactical advantage anywhere significant.

[ByeByeTasai]

Need some suggestions for where I should go with my RNG gear since I've lost touch with it. This is 4-hit with /sam and armageddon



Vulcan Staff/Reaver Grip +1/Armageddon
TP: AF3+2 Head, Houyi's Gorget, Volley Earring, Clearview Earring
Loki's, AF3+2 Hands, Hoard Ring, Raja's Ring
AF back, Goading Belt, AF3+2 Legs, AF3 +2 Feet

WS: Bersail Cap, Ugg Pendant, Moldy, Hecate's
AF3+2 body, S Kote, Stormsoul X 2
Forban Cape, Sveltesse Gouriz, Ambusher's Hose, AF3+2 feet

The Hoard Ring is just a placeholder until I can find something else to keep me at +47 STP.

[noodles355]

I can't imagine that you're going to miss the 2% DA TA as much as it seems you're making out, particularly as you're singling this out for use with an OAT lance.

Why not? 2%DA/2%TA (Going from 8%>10%DA and 0%>2%TA) is roughly 5.8% increase on 60% of your melee swings = roughly 3.5% increase (discounting TP overflow). *If* going from 25-26% Haste was actually 1% Haste you'd need over 70% Haste through other means for it to equal it. But it isn't 1%, if the 25% through other gear is 250/1024, then that last "1%" is actually 0.6%, and 0.6% Haste will never match the 3.5% increase even when it's at it's most potent, going from 79.4% Haste to the 80% cap. Obviously I didn't take into account TP overflow, but if say that made DA/TA half as worthwhilem then you'd need around 66% Haste for it to be equal (Read: you need a brd).

[noodles355]

Need some suggestions for where I should go with my RNG gear since I've lost touch with it. This is 4-hit with /sam and armageddon



Vulcan Staff/Reaver Grip +1/Armageddon
TP: AF3+2 Head, Houyi's Gorget, Volley Earring, Clearview Earring
Loki's, AF3+2 Hands, Hoard Ring, Raja's Ring
AF back, Goading Belt, AF3+2 Legs, AF3 +2 Feet

WS: Bersail Cap, Ugg Pendant, Moldy, Hecate's
AF3+2 body, S Kote, Stormsoul X 2
Forban Cape, Sveltesse Gouriz, Ambusher's Hose, AF3+2 feet

The Hoard Ring is just a placeholder until I can find something else to keep me at +47 STP.

This is my Armageddon 4hit:
Base TP 16.6
TP:
Vulcan's | Rose Strap (4)
AF3+2 Head |Corvus Torque | Volley (2) |Clearview
AF3+2 Body |AF3+2 Gloves (7) | Horde Ring (4) |Rajas Ring (5)
AF3 Back (5) | Oneiros Cest (3) | AF3+2 Legs (9) | AF3+2 Feet
TP/hit: 25.7 (54STP)

Slug:
Vulcan's | Rose Strap (4)
AF3+2 Head |Corvus Torque | Volley (2) |Clearview
AF3+2 Body |AF3+2 Gloves (7) | Pyrosoul |Rajas Ring (5)
Libeccio | Scout's Belt | AF3+2 Legs (9) | AF3+2 Feet
TP/hit: 23.5 (42STP)

Wildfire:
Vulcan's | Rose Strap (4)
MAB/WSDmg Anwig | Uggy/Artemis | Hectate | Moldy
MAB Mirke | Skote | Stormsoul |Rajas Ring (5)
AF3 Back | Sveltese | AF3+2 Legs (9) | AF3+2 Feet
TP/hit: 22.9 (33STP)

25.7+25.7+25.7+22.9=100

[Kensagaku]

Back to moar DRG! I have a question for outside abyssea sets that I was curious about: I have a Crit Rate+1% Light Earring and I'm wondering if outside it'd be better for Drakesbane then either a Triumph Earring (using right now) or a Dragonkin Earring (planned using in the future if Light Earring is a no-go). Just a curiosity, really.

[Rez]

Why not? 2%DA/2%TA (Going from 8%>10%DA and 0%>2%TA) is roughly 5.8% increase on 60% of your melee swings = roughly 3.5% increase (discounting TP overflow). *If* going from 25-26% Haste was actually 1% Haste you'd need over 70% Haste through other means for it to equal it. But it isn't 1%, if the 25% through other gear is 250/1024, then that last "1%" is actually 0.6%, and 0.6% Haste will never match the 3.5% increase even when it's at it's most potent, going from 79.4% Haste to the 80% cap. Obviously I didn't take into account TP overflow, but if say that made DA/TA half as worthwhilem then you'd need around 66% Haste for it to be equal (Read: you need a brd).

It's hard to know where to start, suffice to say that not limiting the variables when comparing, and selectively ignoring things to suit your case is hardly scientific.

2% DA 2% TA vs ~ 1% Haste?

Neatly ignoring the 12 Attack on Ace's hose, which given your prior TP setup would be a base of around 600, is 2 % added attack.

Not that it matters anyway, carry on with your bs math





Edit: incase your reading comprehension is equally bad, I'm commenting on the quoted section only, not interested in the rest of it.

[noodles355]

It's hard to know where to start, suffice to say that not limiting the variables when comparing, and selectively ignoring things to suit your case is hardly scientific.

2% DA 2% TA vs ~ 1% Haste?

Neatly ignoring the 12 Attack on Ace's hose, which given your prior TP setup would be a base of around 600, is 2 % added attack.

Not that it matters anyway, carry on with your bs math

Please, oh wise and mathalicious one, please tutor me in the error of my ways and correct my bullshit maths.
That comparison I made was in favour of the haste to offset the unknown variables (I halved the effectiveness of DA/TA to account for TP overflow - in reality it shouldn't be cut as much. TP overflow is the only unknown variable). 12 Attack? Ok let's see, I think with an OAT lance it would be fair to say TP/WS/Jump distribution would be somewhere around 10/75/15 right? Seems fair enough (if OAT procs on Jumps, I seem to recall it does?). cRatio increase of 12 attack, on a high level monsters with high defence (favouring attack), using my actual attack at 95, with no attack buffs (favouring attack):
((645/504)-(0.05*11))/((633/504)-(0.05*11))=3.4% increase to TP damage, 0.34 increase to total DoT.

So let's take that off the 1.75% increase from DA/TA to 1.41%. At this point, you need 67% Haste for the 0.6% Haste and 12 Attack from Ace's to beat the DA/TA from Calmecac. 25%Gear+Hasso+Spell is 50%. You still need a bard.

So to re-itterate, I used numbers that favoured attack (low starting attack through no buffs, high defence mob) I over-estimated the effect of TP overflow on DA/TA (It wont be that high: 1/2 of the TAs will result in TP overflow, 1/4 of the DAs will, TP overflow only effects WS frequency, and not TP damage, TP overflow leads to (very slightly) raise crit rate on Drakesbane), I assumed Acc cap as so to ignore the accuracy calmecac have over Ace's. In short: I favoured Attack/Haste everywhere I could, and Ace's Hose still lost.

But if you're so awesome at maths and think mine is such BS, then please feel free to post and correct me, and show how Ace's are better than Calmecac.
And whilst you're at it, don't be such a douche in your responses. We're here to try and figure what's best to use on Drg, we're playing on the same damn team, there is no need for you to insult my reading comprehension or call my work bullshit without offering anything yourself.

[Kalasin]

Don't have anything to contribute, so sorry for that, but I'd let Rez just talk. He's been trolling every single thread I've read since I've been home, I can see where this is going. That being said, this post is probably more useful than all of his of today together.

[Ratatapa]

Here is some of my WHM sets

Idle

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/237634

Notes : Moonshade is MP+25 and Refresh
Pin and Subligar has Refresh too
dark rings are +5% magic and Physical
Genbu is not yet Augmented


Healing Magic (gimp set imo)

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/237635

Surya's is +23 cure Pot

Need tip for rings and Neck Piece

Thanks