What's Better?

[Diddy Kong]

Which of the Fusettos would be the best choice for DNC?

[Ashmada]

Great Axe
DMG:104 Delay:488 WS Dmg 10%
or
DMG:108 Delay 482 STR+8 Attk+22

Also is the Store TP+11 a viable option?

Not going to fully math it out but 4 BD, 8 STR and 22 Atk should easily outdo WSdmg+10% for everything but Steel Cyclone.

So, I'd go for the latter one.

[Byrthnoth]

Not going to fully math it out but 4 BD, 8 STR and 22 Atk should easily outdo WSdmg+10% for everything but Steel Cyclone.

So, I'd go for the latter one.

I vote with this too, but it's a little more complicated than that. 488 Delay is 13.2 TP/hit. 482 is 13 TP/hit.

13.2*1.25*6 = 99 TP (extra hit pushes you over) - Rose, Brutal, Rajas
13*1.25*6 = 97.2 TP (would need 3 additional hits to get 100) - Rose, Brutal, Rajas, and you need 2 more STP to 6-hit it.

So, you sacrifice something for that extra STP you need. Could be Bomblet -> W.Tath. Could be Forager's -> Belenos' Mantle. Could be anything, but you lose something. Personally, I don't own Belenos or W.Tath so I eat Carb instead of YCBs when I'm using that GA /SAM. It loses me something like 2 STR and 20 Attack, which pretty much negates the benefit of my GA. However, it gives me a ton of HP which is nice as a taru. I realize it's probably the "wrong" thing to do for pure damage output, but I don't feel like solo popping/soloing Tonberry Liege (if possible) or spending 1mil+ to complete my 6-hit with meat. Also to note, if you /NIN then Rose + Rajas + Brutal is an easy 6-hit with Atlas.

[Manf]

I vote with this too, but it's a little more complicated than that. 488 Delay is 13.2 TP/hit. 482 is 13 TP/hit.

13.2*1.25*6 = 99 TP (extra hit pushes you over) - Rose, Brutal, Rajas
13*1.25*6 = 97.2 TP (would need 3 additional hits to get 100) - Rose, Brutal, Rajas, and you need 2 more STP to 6-hit it.

So, you sacrifice something for that extra STP you need. Could be Bomblet -> W.Tath. Could be Forager's -> Belenos' Mantle. Could be anything, but you lose something. Personally, I don't own Belenos or W.Tath so I eat Carb instead of YCBs when I'm using that GA /SAM. It loses me something like 2 STR and 20 Attack, which pretty much negates the benefit of my GA. However, it gives me a ton of HP which is nice as a taru. I realize it's probably the "wrong" thing to do for pure damage output, but I don't feel like solo popping/soloing Tonberry Liege (if possible) or spending 1mil+ to complete my 6-hit with meat. Also to note, if you /NIN then Rose + Rajas + Brutal is an easy 6-hit with Atlas.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the better trade off be (assuming you don't have an ebody(or possibly even with it?)) haub+1-> Askar korazin? Askar should be exceptionally easy to get now if you don't have it. The ideal body piece, obviously, being aurum cuirass which would allow you to even drop the rose strap for pole grip.

Edit: I didn't read well enough, you indeed are losing something still with the haub+1->askar swap, although largely negligible somethings.

[Byrthnoth]

Depends what you're fighting. Haub +1 -> Askar loses you 16 Acc but picks you up 2% DA. It's 1 STP short of letting you drop Rose for Pole, but you could do that and swap Ear1 for Atilla's. However, you lose massive amounts of Acc to the extent that if you were using an Acc GA that'd be almost the same negation as losing 20 Attack and 2 STR swapping to Carbonara with the STR/Atk GA. In the Askar case, the 2-4% DA is the gravy instead of 175 HP.

Also, I've looked over the new Magian GA options (nothing involving Glavoid/Mythics/Relics) and plugged them into my spreadsheet. As far as I can see, at the moment the DA+7% GA looks like the best option. Barring the willingness to kill ~3000 mobs on WAR, the STR/Atk Atlas is a solid choice even if the Attack does nothing for you. If the STR is doing nothing for you (iirc in Abyssea you can get about +100 STR right now, so it isn't as much of a given as it sounds), then it's a toss-up with any other elemental magian. Dark Horse in all this is what I will term the "Lame Path" weapon, Maschu +1.

When Attack and Accuracy don't matter and your DEX isn't in the 40-50 range for the target you're fighting:
DA+7 > Maschu +1 > STR/Atk Atlas +1 > WS+10% Sumeru +1 > Any other completed elemental magian > STP Sumeru +1

When Attack does matter, STR/Atk Atlas +1 wins. I'd like to emphasize how close the DA+7% and "Lame path" weapon is though.

[Raenil]

That's assuming Ukko's Fury doesn't completely destroy current weapon skills, I'm assuming?

[skeelz]

Great Katana:

keiton +1
95dmg +10%ws

hyogu str path
96dmg +8str +20atk

or

amanowannabe
99dmg latent kaiten


?

[Juront]

Edit wrong section

[Fereydoon]

Bedlam +1 or Martial for cor? (Everything but QD, Making a Mayhem +1 for that.)

[Ashmada]

I vote with this too, but it's a little more complicated than that. 488 Delay is 13.2 TP/hit. 482 is 13 TP/hit.

Bah. I just assumed it made no difference to hit-builds or a difference that's easily fixed with Ecphoria.
Yeah, given that it puts you short 2 Store TP, that's a bit more annoying.

Great Katana:

keiton +1
95dmg +10%ws

hyogu str path
96dmg +8str +20atk

or

amanowannabe
99dmg latent kaiten


?

Well, Kaiten is a great WS against things that don't have prohibitively high DEF, but against those things you should probably use this.
(unrelated : has the latent condition been discovered on those weapons with "Latent: relic WS" ? Have they even been located ?)

Keito vs STR Hyogu :
- Atk's pretty much meaningless for YGK.
- D96 8 STR vs D95 is about 8 more D when everything is compounded (fSTR, mods, 1 BD).
- 8 BD < 10% WS damage for YGK.
-> Keito wins.
And unless you have Usu Haramaki, 450 or 464 dly is much less awkward than 437.

Hyogu has more DoT, of course, but I don't see it overshadowing the higher WS damage/potentially higher WS freq of Keitonotachi.

[Khajit]

The relic ws latents are ws 13 times to charge it up then you get a relic ws.

[Maxwell]

Bah. I just assumed it made no difference to hit-builds or a difference that's easily fixed with Ecphoria.
Yeah, given that it puts you short 2 Store TP, that's a bit more annoying.



Well, Kaiten is a great WS against things that don't have prohibitively high DEF, but against those things you should probably use this.
(unrelated : has the latent condition been discovered on those weapons with "Latent: relic WS" ? Have they even been located ?)

Keito vs STR Hyogu :
- Atk's pretty much meaningless for YGK.
- D96 8 STR vs D95 is about 8 more D when everything is compounded (fSTR, mods, 1 BD).
- 8 BD < 10% WS damage for YGK.
-> Keito wins.
And unless you have Usu Haramaki, 450 or 464 dly is much less awkward than 437.

Hyogu has more DoT, of course, but I don't see it overshadowing the higher WS damage/potentially higher WS freq of Keitonotachi.

Honestly, once you factor in TP bleed over, DoT, and the expectation for future augments, the Str Magian GK seems to always be the safe bet. It has consistently pulled towards the top in every calculation we've done on this forum, and that's with optimum conditions for the 5 hit Keitonotachis.

That being said, if you're lazy or don't have time for magians, the Amanowanabeya isn't bad DPS either, and doing solo Light2 every once in a while is pretty nifty too .

[Byrthnoth]

Does anyone have a 1H WS damage +10% weapon yet? I know when I tested the lower-tier version (before choosing the STP path) it only affected my damage if I main-handed it. Having to use low damage weapon in order to get Damage+10% seems counterproductive, though it may be worth it on mod-heavy WSs.

Anyway, for Dancer the answer is going to be the STP Fusetto +1 probably all the time. The WS damage Dagger may put out the nicest numbers right now even if you have to mainhand it, but the vast majority if DNC's TP doesn't go towards WSs and does come from their weapons. Basically, it's kinda like this:
TP Gained from Weapons + TP Gained from Reverse Flourish - TP spent on Waltz/Steps/Samba - TP spent on WSs = 0
We gain 10% more TP from the STP Fusetto +1 than the WS Damage Fusetto +1. Assuming we would not be TP-limited when using the WS damage weapon, then we will spend the same amount of TP on Waltz/Steps/Samba and gain the same amount from Reverse Flourish regardless of which weapon we'd use. The excess TP from the STP weapon would go directly to the only other term, TP spent on WSs. So we can either WS 10% more often or 10% harder in situations where you have free reign to DD. In situations where you need the extra TP from the STP weapon for Waltz/etc, then you have it.

STP Fusetto +1 is the boss for DNC at the moment. Keep in mind that all the STP we're getting access to (AFv3+2) will devalue it a little, but in the end the STP dagger is always going to be the responsible decision.


Edit: Oh yeah, and Auric Dagger is pretty dead for DNC. It is still a competitive option depending how much you value Subtle Blow, but the DPS is worse than a STR/Atk Dagger/anything and the TP gain is worse than Fusetto +1/OA2-3.

[Castellano]

don't forget theres also the possibility that ws dmg+10% will get upgraded further :D

[Diddy Kong]

So for one without a OA2-3, what would be the daggers of choice for a DNC?

[Byrthnoth]

It depends what you have access to. Auric Dagger/Fusetto +1 is decent still. I think the OA2-3 weapon will always have a place in DNC's arsenal. If you're serious about the job, it's worth getting. I don't run out of TP even in parties with serious DDs and it makes WSing a little more responsible.

The WS damage +% may (and probably will) get upgraded further, but so will the STP on the STP dagger. DNC's overflow TP is used for weaponskills (X-hit builds are pretty worthless), so an extra 10% TP results in more than a 10% increase in weaponskills, meaning that the STP dagger increases your "Damage from WSs" more than WS damage+10%. Note that I did not say "damage per WS" I'm taking (Damage Per WS * Number of Weaponskills) as your "Damage from WSs". Because that extra 10% TP goes straight into weaponskills (assuming it isn't needed to do your job), and because Waltzes/Steps/Sambas were a significant part of your TP spending before, it results in a larger than 10% increase in WS frequency.

Say you gain 300TP in a minute and spend 200 TP on average, you average 1 WS per minute
Now you use a STP Fusetto +1 and average 330 TP per minute while still spending 200TP on average, now you average 1.3 WSs per minute.

1 WS per minute * 1.1 WS damage per WS = 1.1 WS damage per minute
1.3 WSs per minute * 1.0 WS damage per WS = 1.3 WS damage per minute

So in this case you'd do almost 20% more damage with your WSs using the STP Fusetto than the WS damage Fusetto.

[Diddy Kong]

It depends what you have access to. Auric Dagger/Fusetto +1 is decent still. I think the OA2-3 weapon will always have a place in DNC's arsenal. If you're serious about the job, it's worth getting. I don't run out of TP even in parties with serious DDs and it makes WSing a little more responsible.

The WS damage +% may (and probably will) get upgraded further, but so will the STP on the STP dagger. DNC's overflow TP is used for weaponskills (X-hit builds are pretty worthless), so an extra 10% TP results in more than a 10% increase in weaponskills, meaning that the STP dagger increases your "Damage from WSs" more than WS damage+10%. Note that I did not say "damage per WS" I'm taking (Damage Per WS * Number of Weaponskills) as your "Damage from WSs". Because that extra 10% TP goes straight into weaponskills (assuming it isn't needed to do your job), and because Waltzes/Steps/Sambas were a significant part of your TP spending before, it results in a larger than 10% increase in WS frequency.

Say you gain 300TP in a minute and spend 200 TP on average, you average 1 WS per minute
Now you use a STP Fusetto +1 and average 330 TP per minute while still spending 200TP on average, now you average 1.3 WSs per minute.

1 WS per minute * 1.1 WS damage per WS = 1.1 WS damage per minute
1.3 WSs per minute * 1.0 WS damage per WS = 1.3 WS damage per minute

So in this case you'd do almost 20% more damage with your WSs using the STP Fusetto than the WS damage Fusetto.

I don't have Auric either.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, what do you have access to? If your only options are old weapons, Elemental magians, or STP magians, then get Cinquedea, Dex/Acc Dakini, and an STP Fusetto +1.

[Diddy Kong]

I am working on OA2-3, but that shit is so fucking tedious, and trying to do Store TP, and ACC, and STR, and x2 Evasion, as well as trying to find time to level up to 85 on two jobs, as well as doing some older content, I just don't have time to get all that shit done. None of my weapons are anywhere near completion. I am on cyclone trial for the store tp, golems for acc, and hypogryphs for OA2-3. None of the others I've even started. And Auric is out of my grasp since I have no LS, nor do I have a job that could even damage the fucking monster.

Edit: I do have the Cinquedea though, so would my Acc/Cinquedea be the best choice?

[seiji]

Bah. I just assumed it made no difference to hit-builds or a difference that's easily fixed with Ecphoria.
Yeah, given that it puts you short 2 Store TP, that's a bit more annoying.



Well, Kaiten is a great WS against things that don't have prohibitively high DEF, but against those things you should probably use this.
(unrelated : has the latent condition been discovered on those weapons with "Latent: relic WS" ? Have they even been located ?)

Keito vs STR Hyogu :
- Atk's pretty much meaningless for YGK.
- D96 8 STR vs D95 is about 8 more D when everything is compounded (fSTR, mods, 1 BD).
- 8 BD < 10% WS damage for YGK.
-> Keito wins.
And unless you have Usu Haramaki, 450 or 464 dly is much less awkward than 437.

Hyogu has more DoT, of course, but I don't see it overshadowing the higher WS damage/potentially higher WS freq of Keitonotachi.

how stack the WS dmg+10% with overwhelm? if they add you only get 8% more dmg