What's Better?

[Greatguardian]

I'm pretty sure you're misunderstanding what people are saying about Gleaming. The fact that it has significantly more defense than Koenig means it blocks 30%-ish(?) more damage when you shield block. 30% seems on the high side though, not sure where you got that number. I had heard 20-22% or so.

If people are actually saying it has a Sipar-esque block rate, then ignore me. I just haven't heard or experienced anything to support that.

[Colenzo]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/16189/gleaming-shield

they are talking about block rate

[Salodin]

Bah. I just assumed it made no difference to hit-builds or a difference that's easily fixed with Ecphoria.
Yeah, given that it puts you short 2 Store TP, that's a bit more annoying.



Well, Kaiten is a great WS against things that don't have prohibitively high DEF, but against those things you should probably use this.
(unrelated : has the latent condition been discovered on those weapons with "Latent: relic WS" ? Have they even been located ?)

Keito vs STR Hyogu :
- Atk's pretty much meaningless for YGK.
- D96 8 STR vs D95 is about 8 more D when everything is compounded (fSTR, mods, 1 BD).
- 8 BD < 10% WS damage for YGK.
-> Keito wins.
And unless you have Usu Haramaki, 450 or 464 dly is much less awkward than 437.

Hyogu has more DoT, of course, but I don't see it overshadowing the higher WS damage/potentially higher WS freq of Keitonotachi.

Honestly, once you factor in TP bleed over, DoT, and the expectation for future augments, the Str Magian GK seems to always be the safe bet. It has consistently pulled towards the top in every calculation we've done on this forum, and that's with optimum conditions for the 5 hit Keitonotachis.

Can you show me these calculations? I haven't done them myself, but just at looking at it, I'd assume the +10ws dmg would pull out ahead just cause d96 + 8str = D98 doesn't it (str/4 for fstr isn't it?)? I don't crunch numbers too often so please correct me if I'm wrong, but with D98 vs D95+10%WS dmg, it's pretty clear which comes out ahead, even if you have to deal with tp overflow. And if you don't have the gear to 5-hit with it, you can at least maintain the same haste and drop the rose strap for a pole grip. Am I thinking about this correctly?

[Greatguardian]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/16189/gleaming-shield

they are talking about block rate

Huh. I have no idea then. I've not noticed anything like this at all from my Gleaming, and the fact that I'm working with level 77~ish cap skill and, as expected, not capping block rate on newer shit makes me rather skeptical. I call Eyeballing until proven otherwise.

[Clash Perez]

Can you show me these calculations? I haven't done them myself, but just at looking at it, I'd assume the +10ws dmg would pull out ahead just cause d96 + 8str = D98 doesn't it (str/4 for fstr isn't it?)? I don't crunch numbers too often so please correct me if I'm wrong, but with D98 vs D95+10%WS dmg, it's pretty clear which comes out ahead, even if you have to deal with tp overflow. And if you don't have the gear to 5-hit with it, you can at least maintain the same haste and drop the rose strap for a pole grip. Am I thinking about this correctly?

Y/G/K's 75% STR mod means the STR+8 gives another 6 DMG on WS, plus fSTR, plus higher initial DMG.

[Cream Soda]

You're forgetting about alpha multiplier. Would be 5 DMG tops from wsc.

[Salodin]

Dur, im stupid for forgetting that. So does that mean it's actually better then a 5hit keit or 10%ws keito, or that people assume it will be through future updates. Looking to make one but id really like to focus on one katana not two =(.

[Clash Perez]

Dur, im stupid for forgetting that. So does that mean it's actually better then a 5hit keit or 10%ws keito, or that people assume it will be through future updates. Looking to make one but id really like to focus on one katana not two =(.

As Cream made evident, I'm no mathologist. Which weapon is currently on top seems to depend on whom you ask. I've made the STR and Store TP great katanas, and switch them out as I see fit, depending on what I'm fighting and whether I feel like using a 5-hit or 6-hit. Which will turn into the clear winner depends entirely on what Squeenix does in the coming months, and unless your tea leaves are better than mine, I'd recommend keeping your options open.

[Salodin]

Sighhh not the answer I was hoping for, but you make sense. Off to do a bunch of effin trials!

[Yvonne]

Got into an argument tonight over the best Atonement sword for spamming.

Assuming under these conditions: 1) Double March 2) Haste 3) 21% in gear Haste

Khanda +1 (OaThree) vs. Joyeuse

Wouldn't Joyeuse surpass it due to it's low delay?

[Cream Soda]

not sure of the answer to your question, but the amount of haste here is irrelevant, as it benefits both weapons equally.

[Yvonne]

I ment by Joyeuse surpasing OaTrice for Atonement spams. Wouldn't Joytoy build TP the fastest?

[Yugl]

Well they have the same avg number of hits (1.5), so it depends on your TP Gain per hit v Delay. This will be affected by your current gear and sTP.

[Raen Ryong]

Isn't Oa3x average per round 1.7? 50/30/20 = 1.7 average.

[Byrthnoth]

TP is pretty directly proportional to delay in that delay range, so Joy's lower delay doesn't matter. OA2-3 Khanda builds TP faster if it doesn't hit for 0 more often. Higher delay means less TP fed. Higher OA2-3 means more TP fed. It wouldn't be a significant improvement over Joy imop, especially considering how shitty the dps is.

[AzazaelFenrir]

I just hit 78 on MNK and still using O. Kote. Should I switch to something like Aurore gloves or keep the Kote? Or something else entirely?

[Phoenyx]

I just hit 78 on MNK and still using O. Kote. Should I switch to something like Aurore gloves or keep the Kote? Or something else entirely?

Think that depends on whether or not you're already capping haste with your current gear. If not, then I'd say the 2% haste on Aurore gloves would probably do more for you than 20 attack, especially on old content.

[Yugl]

Isn't Oa3x average per round 1.7? 50/30/20 = 1.7 average.

That is correct. I think I only added the percentage instead of multiplying it by the number of hits. Otherwise, I don't know.

[AzazaelFenrir]

Think that depends on whether or not you're already capping haste with your current gear. If not, then I'd say the 2% haste on Aurore gloves would probably do more for you than 20 attack, especially on old content.

yeah if I was capping haste it would be a no brainer Pink gloves it is.

[Byrthnoth]

That is correct. I think I only added the percentage instead of multiplying it by the number of hits. Otherwise, I don't know.

1*50% + 2*30% + 3*20% = .5+.6+.6 = 1.7

D29, 264 delay, Khanda +1 attacks ~1.715 times with Brutal. 29*1.715*60/264 = 11.3 DPS
7 TP/hit base, 6 STP brings you to 7.4 TP/hit. 7.4*1.715*60/264 = 2.88 TP/sec pre-Haste
10*1.715*60/264 = 3.90 TP fed/sec pre-Haste



D35, 224 delay, Joyeuse attacks 1.525 times. 35*1.525*60/224 = 14.3DPS
6 TP/hit base, 6 STP brings you to 6.3 TP/hit. 6.3*1.525*60/224 = 2.57 TP/sec pre-Haste
9*1.525*60/224 = 3.68 TP fed/sec pre-Haste

So Khanda +1 gets and feeds TP faster, but has lower DPS and no piercing bonus. Paladins using Joyeuse aren't exactly gimping themselves.