What's Better?

[Byrthnoth]

Except that you won't want the STP version, probably.

12.2*x*3+12.2*y = 100
y = -3x + 100/12.2

You would need approximately ~105STP during TP and WS to 4-hit a GKT. I'm not certain that will ever be reasonable, even with the STP weapon. However, 5-hitting should be reasonable for most people with the 10% WS damage GKT. Therefore, don't get the STP weapon.

[oblit]

Keitonotachi +1 95 Damage STP+10 464delay vs Ishikirimaru 100 Damage 480delay

You could use Ishikirimaru with sword strap for 465 delay with a good 5hit build.

This setup is what I use at the moment for tanking and OAT+1 for DDing.

Edit:Too lazy to do WS DMG+10% but i'm currently working on Masamune.

[Taint]

You could use Ishikirimaru with sword strap for 465 delay with a good 5hit build.

This setup is what I use at the moment for tanking and OAT+1 for DDing.

Yeah I saw you rocking it in WG and got the idea from you.

[hykiri]

Ok, reasking the question because I think I went around it wrong. On NIN which would be better: Haste from Byakko's or DW from Relic Pants?

[Byrthnoth]

If you are solo at 85, DW from the Relic pants when meleeing. As soon as you get Haste from buffers (or need Acc from Byakko's), Byakko's pulls ahead. Even solo, if you might be getting crit rate from Byakko's they'll probably be better. This is assuming you're already wearing AF1+1 body and Suppa.

[hykiri]

If you are solo at 85, DW from the Relic pants when meleeing. As soon as you get Haste from buffers (or need Acc from Byakko's), Byakko's pulls ahead. Even solo, if you might be getting crit rate from Byakko's they'll probably be better. This is assuming you're already wearing AF1+1 body and Suppa.

Thanks.

[Thorny]

Really, you should aim for a setup that caps haste without legs so that you can use relic pants. 5 more DW on top of what's already 45%(with suppa, af body) is 55/50 or 10% more swings over time. If you can pull even 23% haste without legs, koga pull ahead.. and it's not very hard.

Acubens-6%
Tiercel-7%
Koga/Dusk+1-11%
Shinobi-15%
Velocious-21%
Fuma-24%

Take off the dusk+1 and you're still good. Obviously, adding bullwhip or AF+2 head makes this even better.

[Ned]

Shinobi

Has there been some new gear that make 75% HP easy to hit as default to proc this.. or what i miss?

[Salodin]

Polearm for samurai, /war or /drg?

[fredjanx]

Ire Torque, Light Gorget or Hope Torque for Sidewinder?

[Slynkee]

Im almost done with war af3 helm +1, and was wondering if the Ravager's Mask +1 (STR+7 VIT+7 Acc+10 Attk+10 Dbl Attk+3%) beats out Heca Cap (Str+11 Dex+5) same goes for the +2 (STR+8 VIT+8 Acc+14 Attk+14 Crit Rate+3% Dbl Attk+4%) I cant see 3-4 str beating out all the other stats but just wanted to double check. More so making sure the +1 is better than heca.

[Mad Friar Avelyn]

I've been thinking of switching over to the +10% WS Damage GKT from the StoreTP+10 GKT. Which setup would be better for SAM85? I'm currently using:

Keitonotachi +1 (StoreTP+10)/Rose Strap/-/Tiphia Sting
Unkai Kabuto +1/Peacock Charm/Brutal Earring/Kemas Earring
Haubergeon +1/Dusk Gloves/Rajas Ring/Ecphoria Ring
Cuchulain's Mantle/Swift Belt/Unkai Haidate +1/Fuma sune-ate

WS:
Shura Kabuto/Elemental Gorget/Brutal Earring/Kemas Earring
Kirin's Osode/Alkyoneus's Braceletes/Rajas Ring/Flame Ring
Smilodon Mantle +1/Sentry Belt/Unkai Haidate +1/Perle Solerets (Working on Unkai Feet +1 atm)

or

Keitonotachi +1 (WS Damage+10%)/Rose Strap/-/White Tathlum
Unkai Haidate +1/Chivalrous Chain/Brutal Earring/Kemas Earring
Haubergeon +1/Dusk Gloves/Rajas Ring/Hoard Ring
Cuchulain's Mantle/Swift Belt/Unkai Haidate +1/Hachiman Sune-ate

WS:
Shura Kabuto/Elemental Gorget/Brutal Earring/Kemas Earring
Kirin's Osode/Alkyoneus's Braceletes/Rajas Ring/Flame Ring
Smilodon Mantle +1/Sentry Belt/Unkai Haidate +1/Hachiman Sune-ate

The second setup gains +10% WS, but loses 1 STR, 4 DEX, 11 ACC, 2 ATK, 3% Haste, and 3 STR in WS. Getting Askar Body would let me get back 3% Haste in the setup though, and Unkai Nodowa would let me swap back Hachiman Sune-ate for Perle/Unkai +1 later down the line.

[Edit] Aiming to maintain a 5-hit with the setup as well.

[Thorny]

Has there been some new gear that make 75% HP easy to hit as default to proc this.. or what i miss?

It's not easy, but it's not that difficult either. I went over a setup at some point, and in abyssea just cancelling hp buff will proc it.

[Francisco]

Improvements on the following (exclude Tantra, since I'm working on it anyway)?

Howling Fist / Ascetic's Fury

STR Taipan+1s/-/-/Tantra
Genbu/Faith/Brutal/Aesir
Usukane/Alky's/Rajas/Spiral
Forager/Warwolf/Usukane/Usukane

(My thoughts are use Osode, Kemas instead of Aesir, Heafoc instead of Alky's... maybe Hachiryu Haidate instead of Usukane, not sure it's entirely worth the effort though...) Any other suggestions? Sea Gorget vs Faith, etc?

Tornado Kick

Taipan+1/-/-/Tantra
Genbu/Faith/Brutal/Aesir
Usukane/Alky's/Rajas/Spiral
Forager/Warwolf/Usukane/Poise

Same thoughts/questions apply... this doesn't apply to Footwork/OA2-3 builds, so not so worried about STP and 5 hits.

Asuran Fists

Taipan+1/-/-/Tantra
Anwig/Faith/Ethereal/Aesir
Usukane/Usukane/Rajas/Spiral
Forager/Virtuoso/Usukane/Usukane

Anwig is STR+4 Acc+10 WS Acc+15, Attack+5

Never really bothered with Xolotl, and I'm sure something better will come along soon if it hasn't already... other than that and Anguinus Belt - anything better?

[Motenten]

For all 3: Gorget instead of Faith.

Keep Aesir rather than Kemas unless your accuracy isn't capped (and even then it's debatable due to the acc bonus on the first hit for HF/TK/Ascetic's).

For Tornado Kick, if this isn't applying to Footwork then you want something other than Poise on your feet. You only get the kick shoe damage in Footwork. Usukane feet are one of the better options.

For Asuran, OKote or BKote on hands. With MKE head and Virtuoso Belt (or possibly Anguinus), you should have no issues with accuracy.

Speaking of Anguinus, if you get that, it's easily the best option for the non-Asuran weaponskills as well.

For Asuran, Excelsis Ring (WotG mission reward) is possibly better than Spiral, *if* you're capping fStr (ie: in Abyssea) and not capping attack (which may be possible with Chaos Roll buff, depending on mob, food, debuffs, etc). It's close enough that I wouldn't go out of my way for it if you already have Spiral, though.

Osode is potentially better than Usu body, but depends on your accuracy needs.

[Francisco]

Keep Aesir rather than Kemas unless your accuracy isn't capped (and even then it's debatable due to the acc bonus on the first hit for HF/TK/Ascetic's).

ACC aside, Kemas has 2 STR and 2 VIT. When does attack outweigh STR/VIT for HF/TK/AscF?

For Tornado Kick, if this isn't applying to Footwork then you want something other than Poise on your feet. You only get the kick shoe damage in Footwork. Usukane feet are one of the better options.

I was under the impression that got changed. Silly me.

Osode is potentially better than Usu body, but depends on your accuracy needs.

2 STR, 10 VIT at the cost of 11 acc and 6 STP... not sure how well that translates with pizza, but it can't be much of a difference... about how much damage will 10 VIT add to Ascetic's Fury with capped fSTR?

[Motenten]

ACC aside, Kemas has 2 STR and 2 VIT. When does attack outweigh STR/VIT for HF/TK/AscF?

If everything rounds in your favor, 2 str + 2 vit will add 2 to total base damage. This is somewhat likely for Ascetic's, but unlikely for HF/TK. If heavily boosted in Abyssea, 2 base damage could be worth as little as 1.1% (Ascetic's Fury). Outside Abyssea, it could be worth as much as ~1.5% (HF/TK). If you're not capping attack, you get 8 attack from Aesir after Boost. If Boosted attack without the Aesir is 660 then the Aesir is worth ~1.5% (assuming 7 levels of level correction). It's pretty much impossible to get it down to 1.1% before you cap attack. And that's only if WSC rounds in your favor; if you only get +1 damage the Kamas is worth just half as much.

2 STR, 10 VIT at the cost of 11 acc and 6 STP... not sure how well that translates with pizza, but it can't be much of a difference... about how much damage will 10 VIT add to Ascetic's Fury with capped fSTR?

4, with the possibility of 5 (fraction value: 4.25). Overall value between 1.5% and 3.75% damage (just scaling using the values from above). 6 Store TP on the weaponskill itself won't shift total damage nearly that much.

And something I forgot that's come up in my own data: Shura tends to beat out any of the other options once you cap fStr.

[Ocara]

Speaking of boost, I thought I read a while ago that using boost on ws if buffed with any kind of haste actually reduces your total damage due to ja delay? (Discounting perfect ja/ws stacking, which obviously isn't always possible.) Was that relevant to most situations, or just capped haste situations? If so, i'd imagine this is even more relevant with buffs from abyssea boosting atk a lot already (making boost worth less, depending on debuffs/buffs obviously)?

It's hard to keep up what kind of statements like that actually apply to situations I'll be in (Since as much as I'd love to have every event I go to be box stepped Dia III'd angon 2 bard chaos rolled haste samba ideal situations, I don't even have more than 6 people to do events with these days)

[Motenten]

It depends on several factors: pDif without Boost, pDif with Boost (which also depends on level correction), how much total haste you're getting, and how much Store TP you have (as that influences the number of rounds between weaponskills). An OAT-type weapon also affects it like Store TP, in reducing the number of rounds between weaponskills, though that's mainly only relevant to Footwork at this point.

It's rather difficult to give a rule of thumb for this, but I'll try to make a broad estimate.

If your Boost delay (60 if stacked, 120 if you can't manage the stacking well) is more than 60% (70%+ to be conservative) of your hasted round delay (eg: 341 base delay with 25% haste [just gear] would have a hasted round delay of 256; add Haste + 2x March and your hasted delay is 130) then you're probably losing more from the delay of using Boost than you're gaining in direct damage. This is assuming you're getting the full benefit of Boost's attack, as well; if you're going over the attack cap with Boost, reduce the haste threshold commensurately.

[Ocara]

It depends on several factors: pDif without Boost, pDif with Boost (which also depends on level correction), how much total haste you're getting, and how much Store TP you have (as that influences the number of rounds between weaponskills). An OAT-type weapon also affects it like Store TP, in reducing the number of rounds between weaponskills, though that's mainly only relevant to Footwork at this point.

It's rather difficult to give a rule of thumb for this, but I'll try to make a broad estimate.

If your Boost delay (60 if stacked, 120 if you can't manage the stacking well) is more than 60% (70%+ to be conservative) of your hasted round delay (eg: 341 base delay with 25% haste [just gear] would have a hasted round delay of 256; add Haste + 2x March and your hasted delay is 130) then you're probably losing more from the delay of using Boost than you're gaining in direct damage. This is assuming you're getting the full benefit of Boost's attack, as well; if you're going over the attack cap with Boost, reduce the haste threshold commensurately.

With MA7 reducing base delay to 280 and atma boosts (or old content being comparatively weaker) it seems like boost has become less useful in less situations then (assuming 25% gear haste) Since with just gear it's already 210 and borderline usefulness given full benefit, depending on stacking time. I've been going with haste buffs = no boost on ws (and I don't bring mnk to anything super defensive anyway) so I guess I'll stick to that outside weird situations I'm usually not in. Thanks for the clarification.