What's Better?

[Karbuncle]

Capped acc:

STR Kila x2 > STR/Auric > STR/Rapidus > Auric/Rapidus

Uncapped:

STR Kila/DEX Kila if you can use the acc from the DEX Kila (eg if not 95% with Rapparee with STR x2 etc) > DEX Kila/Auric > DEX Kila/Rapidus

DEX Kila x2 if your acc is horrible but yeah.

I made a big spreadsheet comparing the values under different scenarios and found the list to be above. Note if fSTR does not change (presence of atma perhaps) when using STR Kilas vs non-STR Kilas, then they lose some power.

I figured Rapidus to be inferior to finished magian weapons and Auric, but damn nice otherwise. This was also assuming the 1% Haste almost caps you, giving it a very strong increase in damage (if you have Bullwhip Belt, there's a good chance your THF won't even need that 1%).

Assuming Atma of VV and Atma of RR, Whats the general consensus there?

But anyway, Above all else you say Kila+1/Auric > Kila+1/Rapidus (ignoring Kila/Kila combos)

[Clash Perez]

Capped acc:

STR Kila x2 > STR/Auric > STR/Rapidus > Auric/Rapidus

etc.

How much Dual Wield are you assuming? Double STR Kila +1's still win with Auric/Suppa/Raider's Boomerang? Seems counter-intuitive, but I haven't tried to work out the math at all. Not that I have the gear, but that was my original goal.

[Darkmagi]

Am I wrong in thinking crits will cap pdif on almost anything, not to mention fstr being capped for sure in abyssea(as well as nearly fulltime starwalts drink on most things, and possible atk buffs)? I just don't see where all the love for these atk daggers is coming from, with Razed ruins/Eve anyways.

[Thorny]

Pretty sure the ideal set is going to include 24% before weapons.. at least atm.

Raiders+2(6%)/Tiercel(1%)/Brutal/Suppa
DW Mirke/Dusk+1(4%)/Rajas/Strigoi
Cerb+1/Goading(5%)/Raiders+2(5%)/Ballerines(4%)

NQ dusk gloves/homam/ocelot/whatever would be 24%. Something to keep in mind, bullwhip is garbage for jobs you care about. Obviously nobody's going to +2 all their sets, so bullwhip retains use for that. If you don't benefit from the stp, rapparee/nusku's is also going to be something to think about.

[Karbuncle]

Am I wrong in thinking crits will cap pdif on almost anything, not to mention fstr being capped for sure in abyssea(as well as nearly fulltime starwalts drink on most things, and possible atk buffs)? I just don't see where all the love for these atk daggers is coming from, with Razed ruins/Eve anyways.

I myself have a DEX Kila, Probably wrong choice but its what i went for first.

Was only attempting to ascertain the uses of Rapidus Sax tbh, but figured i'd get more useful information in the process

[Raen Ryong]

Pretty sure the ideal set is going to include 24% before weapons.. at least atm.

Raiders+2(6%)/Tiercel(1%)/Brutal/Suppa
DW Mirke/Dusk+1(4%)/Rajas/Strigoi
Cerb+1/Goading(5%)/Raiders+2(5%)/Ballerines(4%)

NQ dusk gloves/homam/ocelot/whatever would be 24%. Something to keep in mind, bullwhip is garbage for jobs you care about. Obviously nobody's going to +2 all their sets, so bullwhip retains use for that. If you don't benefit from the stp, rapparee/nusku's is also going to be something to think about.

Very true, I was considering the potential of DW Mirke > Rapparee in the long run again.

I was using Auric's DW increase as with Raider's. The reason it doesn't go as high as you'd expect is that the WS frequency is relatively static or only slightly quicker with the extra DW, meaning you're getting pure DoT essentially... when the other daggers have more raw DoT to begin with.

VV Atma will have a good chance of capping or almost capping your Dagger fSTR, but THF's low native Attack suggests to me that you are unlikely to be capping your Attack (though RR atma significantly reduces the use of it)... basically I haven't mathed it with Atma yet, which I know isn't very useful. If it devalues base stats on weapons too much, Auric/Rapidus may end up best since they both provide boosts independent of Atma buffs (DW and Delay, Haste also but depends on build).

[Langly]

Word on the street is that kamome is a 5% increase in crit damage so... I'll stick with OAT offhand since 5% is still piddly even if you did a 3k jin, but with OAT you can bust out faster 3k jins. I'd do fire path since it's a fine mainhand, while you can work towards tobi+1 (or kannagi if you're hardcore).

Don't be an idiot and don't bring that 'street' rumor crap here to advise someone about an item. It most assuredly IS 10% unless calculators are wrong and street math is the new constant. Tested it myself.

Koga Shuriken DMG88.
Target: Tunnel Worm
WRANK: 9
fSTR: 34
Base Damage x pDIF = DMG
122 x 3.0 = 366
Crits were 502.
502/122 = 4.114......
pDIF difference of 1.09726 close enough that I can say it's 10%.

[Rehn]

So it is 10%, do you really think that will outdo OAT anyways? I'm going to say no.

[Langly]

It's a wash. They're both very close in my spreadsheet. But Kamome does win.

"Whatever's easier to get." 'And all that. You'll save a second or three on the way to 100% with the OAT. But the Kamome just adds that much more damage to your setup, not to mention if you can make use of that 8 Acc -at all-.

Edit: With Razed Ruin and Abyssea buffs, just use Kamome it's better.

[Rehn]

What ws did you do the math for? Inside/outside abyssea? I don't see kamome winning unless you're hitting a certain ws damage very reliably.

[Langly]

Both Jin and Hi(though I do need concrete information for Hi). Kamome trumps in both. Outside of abyssea it's nearly identical. I'm assuming 24% critical hit rate and capped acc/attk (A situation that does and does not favor Kamome).

I assumed gear haste of 19% (totally acceptable for any Ninja) and haste spell. A total of 15 Store TP (very marginal effects on your total swings to 100%). Capped fSTR and capped pDIF/Crit Rate/Acc. This is all a 'perfect' scenario (sans the haste total but that would only exaggerate the numbers more). It's not a difficult scenario to accomplish by any means and it completely ignores the acc/attk on the kamome.

The higher based dmg OAT Enchu +1 and the Kamome were basically on par, decimals of a difference in dmg over time. And the OA3 due to it's low base dmg lagged behind.

[Kirschy]

Don't be an idiot and don't bring that 'street' rumor crap here to advise someone about an item. It most assuredly IS 10% unless calculators are wrong and street math is the new constant. Tested it myself.

Koga Shuriken DMG88.
Target: Tunnel Worm
WRANK: 9
fSTR: 34
Base Damage x pDIF = DMG
122 x 3.0 = 366
Crits were 502.
502/122 = 4.114......
pDIF difference of 1.09726 close enough that I can say it's 10%.

The crit damage boost occurs after the crit damage is calculated making the crit damage boost multiplicative and not additive with the pdif boost from a crit~

Expected crit on 366 is 366*1.25 = 457 damage.
457 damage * 1.1 = 502 damage.

So yea, it's def a 10% boost.

[Marcicus]

2 STR Shamshirs vs Vulcan's/Axe for /THF BLU (lolBLU lol/thf etc) for Cannonball?

[Nightfyre]

bullwhip is garbage for jobs you care about.

DNC? Having trouble coming up with a Goading set that beats Bullwhip with AF3+2, Dusk (+1), and DW Mirke.

2 STR Shamshirs vs Vulcan's/Axe for /THF BLU (lolBLU lol/thf etc) for Cannonball?

Vulcan's/Brave. Vulcan's/Axe is the same STR as one STR Shamshir, so if that's your options then sword/sword or sword/board as appropriate.

[Leonstrife]

For Ranger, no interest in Corsair;

Marksmanship
Spitfire+1 (High Dmg OAT) Vs. Spitfire+1(Occ. Deals Dbl. Dmg) Vs. Mayhem+1 (8Str 18 R.Att) Vs. Bedlam +1

Archery
Harrier+1 Vs. Condor+1(OAT High Dmg) Vs. Condor+1(Occ. Deals Dbl. Dmg) Vs. Bateleur +1(8Str 18 R.Att) Vs. Siege Bow

Which would be the best choice within the categories? A flow of usefulness would help most (A > B > C) if anyone fancies them self a math wizz at ranger and cares to help me out. I have 8/8 Marks and will not be meriting Archery if that has any meaning to the choice. Have been asking those I know but would like outside input as well.

[Langly]

Thanks for the correction Kirschy.

The crit damage boost occurs after the crit damage is calculated making the crit damage boost multiplicative and not additive with the pdif boost from a crit~

Just REALLY curious, how did we find this out? You've got my curiosity.

[Kirschy]

Thanks for the correction Kirschy.

Just REALLY curious, how did we find this out? You've got my curiosity.

DRK using bow and fire ranged shots outside bastok.

204 Normal
267 Crit

Expected Crit is 255. (Can test this using sam and identical gear.)

floor(floor(204*1.25)*1.05) = 267 Works perfect if it's multiplicative

floor(204*1.31) = 267 If it was additive. Since ranged pdif cap for crit is 3.75 (3.0 * 1.25 = 3.75). This would imply that ranged pdif cap goes up (3.0 * 1.31 = 3.93). I guess if you wanted to test it conclusively, you could use different combinations of crit damage+ effects, but I went /w the nicer numbers and didn't bother proving conclusively it was multiplicative.

[Langly]

Yeah I had understood that, it was my fault for misunderstanding what you had said earlier. Thanks for the explanation though.

I was more confused as to why we didn't just adjust the pDIF, instead of multiplying by 1.X after the critical dmg resolved. Which... is just me looking at math in a funky fashion. Pay no mind.

[yunalaysca]

for DNC weaponskills: pyrrhic kleos and the new shiney Rudra's storm
which is better: tumbler trunks or matre bragezenn

there's been a debate where we cant find the balance between dex and attack and at what point you would favor dex.

[Marcicus]

DNC? Having trouble coming up with a Goading set that beats Bullwhip with AF3+2, Dusk (+1), and DW Mirke.


Vulcan's/Brave. Vulcan's/Axe is the same STR as one STR Shamshir, so if that's your options then sword/sword or sword/board as appropriate.

yeah, brave is what i meant. thanks.