What's Better?

[Darkmagi]

I'll post the math when i wake up if someone else doesn't already but unless you manage to get a massive gear upgrade to the point of which you are not getting the full benefit of swift belt, it will always be ahead. As for bullwhip belt waiting lists, you can easily duo or trio Ovni. Just take a friend or two and get to work, I doubt a lot of people camp KA anymore either.

[yunalaysca]

i actually considered camping KA the other day, just been busy catching up on sch gear to actually skip out 24 hours or so catch his spawn time. ovni is camped like a whore on asura as well. and sure if you post the math for where 19% haste is better than 48% DW for when i dont have double march or what have you, i may consider it. for the time being the extra stats from both gear far out weigh the marginal benefit of extra attack speed i get if i did choose to use those when i have haste and double march (which is a really rare occasion for me).

and there again i'll have to find a fix for my loss of stp since if i dropped 8% dual wield and 4 stp, my tp set will be missing roughly 2 stp.


but in regards to my other gear do you have any suggestions at all? or is it just those 2 pieces of gear that can be "upgraded"

[Darkmagi]

Oat or Oa2-3 would be worth upgrading imo. Auric dagger will soon be useless beyond subtle blow stacking and such as well. OaT will do more damage, with Oa2-3 giving more TP (basically OaT for damage, 2-3 for support). Would love to see some pics of Rudra's critting if you have any available. If you manage to get +2 pants, head, and dusk +1(or possible af3 with 4% or more haste), you can get enough haste (while using rapparee harness) for Nusku's to be beneficial compared to a haste belt.

[yunalaysca]

i dont but i can hop outside and kill a couple marids if you like. as for OAT yeah i was considering it just didnt know with my love for saber dance would degrade it's use or not.

[yunalaysca]

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2...1026053643.png

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4...1026053623.png


it's short but to the point i guess.

[Darkmagi]

No double attack gear on I presume? Well that's interesting that they omitted the fact that it can crit from the description.

[yunalaysca]

no just standard dex/attack gear i use

[Kogenta]

Sorry if this has been already asked.

what's better for fullnuking gear on BLM85 given elementalskill is capped: augur's body or igqira weskit? genie better than both?

Thanks :D

[Cybaster]

I just did 20 rudra's storm to wild rabbit unstacked at 100-106 TP, and the damage range is 514-752. I don't believe it can crit normally. Can you try doing some wild rabbit test with climactic flourish? I have a hunch that the af3 might occasionally increases WS damage.

[Byrthnoth]

I don't have access to Rudra's, but AF3+1/Climactic Flourish definitely doesn't force non-crit WSs to crit.

2 Finishing moves, AF3+1, 100TP. Climactic Flourish -> PK (210 damage) -> 3 crit attack rounds until the Climactic Flourish icon went away.

It doesn't force hits and the screenshots above don't indicate a critical hit. It's just a large fTP WS when you're used to low fTP multi-hits. Your damage is going to be more variable. Think of it like this:
Case 1 - Rudra's Storm, high fTP non-crit 2 hit WS : 4.5 * pDIF1 + 1 * pDIF2 = Damage. The variability here is going to come overwhelmingly from the first pDIF term. You're going to see similar damage variability with this weaponskill to what you see with normal hits, except without crits. In order to get the maximum damage possible, you need two pDIF terms to roll high. Assuming they're pulled from the same distribution (we think so), the odds of seeing the maximum damage is (Odds of seeing maximum pDIF)^2 and the odds of seeing the lowest damage is (Odds of seeing lowest PDIF)^2. Still, because the damage is overwhelmingly driven by the first term (4.5*pDIF1), if PDIF1 rolls high then regardless of what the other term rolls you're going to have a good Rudra's.

Case 2 - Pyrrhic Kleos, low fTP non-crit 5 hit WS : 1 * pDIF1 + 1 * pDIF2 + 1 * pDIF3 + 1 * pDIF4 + 1 * pDIF5 = Damage. Now you've spread the responsibility for the damage of the weaponskill out over 5 different pDIF terms. In order to see the maximum possible damage here, you would need all five pDIF terms to roll high. Assuming all pDIFs are drawn from the same distribution, this would be (Odds of maximum pDIF)^5 and the minimum would be (Odds of minimum pDIF)^5. Furthermore, no individual term drives this weaponskill's damage, so it's just as regular as you'd predict for a 5-hit WS. (everything about this WS has verification tags on wiki, idk)

Assuming the odds of seeing maximum pDIF is 10% (waaay higher than it actually is), Rudra's would see maximum damage 1% of the time, while Pyrrhic would see maximum damage 0.001% of the time. What you're interpreting as critical hits is actually just a result of using a high-fTP WS with non-capped cRatio. There are a lot of values the pDIF could take, and you're just calling the high ones crits.

[Mercilessturtle]

what's better for fullnuking gear on BLM85 given elementalskill is capped: augur's body or igqira weskit? genie better than both?

Teal unless your weskit has int augmented on it.

[yunalaysca]

can you explain why it would produce better damage with climax than sneak attack and when you use the 2 affects together i dont see a change in dmg compared to just using either of the 2.

[Plow]

He just did.

[Byrthnoth]

can you explain why it would produce better damage with climax than sneak attack and when you use the 2 affects together i dont see a change in dmg compared to just using either of the 2.

Go to a level 0 monster outside of a starter city. Get 100TP, use Climactic Flourish, WS a monster that isn't piercing-weak.
Find another level 0 monster. Get 100TP, use Sneak Attack, WS a monster that isn't piercing weak.

If you can screenshot Climactic Flourish doing more damage than Sneak Attack, I'll agree with you. I recommend three macros:
/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>
/echo tp <tp>

/ja "Climactic Flourish" <me>
/echo tp <tp>

/ws "Rudra's Storm" <t>

That way there will be no ambiguity. The TP you go at doesn't have to be 100%, but it does have to be constant and it does need to be in the screenshot.

[Khajit]

polearm vs gkatana for sam using standard atma in abyssea. Tachi fudo doesnt count.

[yunalaysca]

sorry for the delay between pics, i got pulled for a hnm and then failed twice letting myself normal hit before ws (this is why i dont play thf)

sneak attack: nfr -> reverse -> nfr -> SA -> RS
climax: nfr -> reverse -> nfr -> reverse -> nfr -> climax -> RS


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/409...1026142322.png

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5...1026151405.png

[Raen Ryong]

Potentially stupid question, but were you certain of which way the worm was facing? I think a less ambiguous target would be better.

[yunalaysca]

i dont recall the exact topic or w/e but i think sneak attack works on worms period until you have it's attention.

[Nightfyre]

10.5% difference is fairly significant, but still within critical pDIF bounds (provided they both fit, assuming fTP at 150 TP is unknown). If we're confident of fTP @100TP and WSC values, a better test might be a non-SA'd WS at ~100 TP that still hits a critical pDIF value (2.5725 < x <= 3.15). Would be best to not use AF3 head for Climactic Flourish to eliminate any unknown damage benefits.

[Byrthnoth]

Something with a face would be a better target. I'm entirely sure that Climactic Flourish can't force non-crit WSs to crit, so the question is whether or not Rudra's has some secret "Crits with Climactic onry" property.