What's Better?

[Zerk]

At 100 tp, the TP Bonus gives 20% WS dmg. At 200 TP, the TP Bonus gives 33% WS DMG. Unfortunately we can't see where the paths will end up, but atm, the TP Bonus+100 is amazing for Keito, assuming you're not using Rana

Thanks a bunch, time to do the trial while i level in la theine

[Deader2818]

So wait, usu body is the worst body I can use now for mnk? :/

[Cream Soda]

So wait, usu body is the worst body I can use now for mnk? :/

Well think about it. With capped fstr, capped ddex, and capped acc, the only thing it brings to the table is 6 stp. I've been using togi+1

[Deader2818]

Bleh, guess its time to bring back my shura togi, lol. Till I get +1 body or loki i guess.

[Neviskio]

Thanks for the answer, I'm probably going to get a mirke then since shura +1 is a bit far out my reach economically speaking.I didn't think it was so good to be honest...I kinda was throwing it out of the question as first.

[Velecic]

Question, and data for Belt testing.

Question : Crit WS, Inside Abyssea, MKD Hat augmented with - AGI+4 WSDMG+2% / DEX+4 CRITDMG+3% vs. say, Maat's Cap, etc for WS?

Data for Belt : Earth Crusher, 300TP, outside Bastok, Bees
WITHOUT BELT : 339, 339, 420
WITH THUNDER BELT : 351, 351, 442

Do with that what you will~

[Cream Soda]

Thunder Belt:
True Strike
196: 2
197: 2
199: 1
200: 1
203: 1
205: 1
206: 1
^ 210: 2
+ 211: 3
213: 1
214: 2
216: 1
218: 2


No Belt:
True Strike
172: 1
175: 1
185: 1
187: 1
189: 1
192: 2
194: 1
196: 2
^ 197: 2
+ 198: 3
199: 2
+ 201: 3


Warp Cudgel as weapon, went w/ true strike, so I wouldn't have to be exact on 100 tp (crit varies w/ tp).

83+13 str (Stp gear rly)

From last night

[fab]

At 100 tp, the TP Bonus gives 20% WS dmg. At 200 TP, the TP Bonus gives 33% WS DMG. Unfortunately we can't see where the paths will end up, but atm, the TP Bonus+100 is amazing for Keito, assuming you're not using Rana

but lately rana is doing some nice dmg with high base att (food/atmas/zerggressor) with the +1 keito wsdmg

[Gun-it]

For DRG STR or DEX polearm? thinking str is alot better just making sure. Mostly use drg in abyssea

[Raenil]

STR.
Although there is a Cletine model lance that was just released that's stronger than it.

OaTwice is ideal, though.

[Kirschy]

Question, and data for Belt testing.

Question : Crit WS, Inside Abyssea, MKD Hat augmented with - AGI+4 WSDMG+2% / DEX+4 CRITDMG+3% vs. say, Maat's Cap, etc for WS?

Data for Belt : Earth Crusher, 300TP, outside Bastok, Bees
WITHOUT BELT : 339, 339, 420
WITH THUNDER BELT : 351, 351, 442

Do with that what you will~

Wiki lists Earth Crusher /w:

100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
1.00 2.3125 3.625

I'm not sure what cause your variance, was it Day/Weather proc by any chance? Anyway, 339 -> 351 is ~3.5% increase. 3.755/3.625 = ~3.5%. This indicates you're seeing a .15 increase in ftp, not .1. Further testing is required for conclusive proof since you got some variance in the WS damage, but I assume it was due to weather or day proc or something. Makes the belts fairly cool!

As for MKD augmented helm, I doubt the stat increase from Maat's will beat a straight 2% increase, let alone a 2% increase followed by a crit dmg+3% increase. It depends on what job/gear you're using though, as crit dmg+50% is not unreasonable to reach for a handful of jobs, and you might not be getting use out of the 3% crit damage.

[Velecic]

As for the Earth Crusher tests, it was windsday, on bees, idk, no clue where the higher one came from but the 339->351 testing should be accurate so .15 fTP sounds good. Makes the belt the best bar none for WS right?

As for the MKD hat, I'm unsure as to which job I'd make it for, it'd be between WAR/PLD/DRK or RNG/THF (ukko's fury, catas, chant du cygne) or (jishnu's radiance, evis/rudras storm once I get it) for weaponskills. I know THF & WAR get crit dmg bonus +5%. my THF is capped with Razed Ruin if I use X's Knife as I have Loki's. Rng I'm nowhere near it, but use brave grip in abyssea. War I have the feet+2 which are untested and I recently got cavaros mantle. 50% to cap requires RR + 20% more right? so 15% on jobs with the trait and 20% for jobs without.

Sorry this post is scattered all over, Ending Question is : Assuming UNCAPPED critdmg+, the MKD hat would beat everything else (Including say, varangian helm etc) for WS that can crit? WS that can't crit too?

I guess I can do more earth crusher tests tonight, I had to go to LS event so I stopped after those ones. Getting 300 TP on war on starter mobs is lame lol.

[Kirschy]

Raging Rush is a 35% STR mod so if you used Varangian helm, the 12 STR would add about ~3.5 from mods. I'm going to go with a reasonable assumption that you're using a GAX with around 104 DMG. (Sumeru +1), and about ~200 STR in your WS macro. Which means your base damage on ws looks like 104(DMG) + 19(fSTR) + 59(Mods) = 182. Going from 182 -> 185.5 is about 1.9% damage increase. If you use a better weapon and have more STR in your WS macro, the 3.5 increase becomes smaller percentage increase making the MKD helm come out ahead easy before you add in the crit dmg+. (With 3 Atmas, Martello/Dominion Influence, 3x Furtherances, and plenty of better GAXs, I'm sure you're way over the estimate I provided!)

War AF3+2 feet were tested at 10%, so with the 5% trait and RR, that puts you 5% shy of the cap, which is why I mentioned it~

[Motenten]

Clarifying the Earth Crusher math:

Damage is base * fTP + fInt, where fInt is 8+dInt/2. I made a rough guess of fInt 49 (82 int over the target, 87 total int), but could be off.

339 - 49 = 290
290 / 3.625 = 80
So base damage is 80

351 - 49 = 302
302 / 80 = 3.775 == new fTP

3.775 - 3.625 = 0.15, the fTP gain

Supports the possibility of +0.15 fTP.


Misc attempts to get the high values to fit just don't work (tend towards 0.2 fTP bonus, which is way too high to match other testing data). Since I don't know what other factors may be involved, ignoring that.



On Tiger's test:

Warp cudgel: d15
max fStr: 9
WSC: 96 * 50% * 0.85 = 40

Total base damage: 64

64 * 1.0 * 3.15 = 201.6 = 201
Matches max observed damage without belt.

218 max with belt is an 8.5% increase over base, implying perhaps a +0.1 fTP.

3.0 pDif = 192
Value where multiple results were starting to be observed (expected due to higher frequency of 3.0+ pDif results).


With the belt equipped, the frequency increase appears to happen at 210 damage (implied max of 220, where 218 was observed). If 210 is the 3.0 pDif, that puts base damage at 70. 70/64 = +10%, so +0.1 fTP.


So Tiger's data supports +0.1 fTP while Velecic's data supports +0.15 fTP.

[Velecic]

Nice that war feet are +10%, that puts me to I think 18 or something with Cavaros Mantle (which I presume is best now?). I do not use Raging Rush, I use Ukko's Fury, I have Maschu+1, hoping to make it +2 soon if I can get some more HQKCrests. It seems like abyssea WS is largely about CritDMG/DoubleAttack Etc now rather than +mods?

[Kirschy]

Clarifying the Earth Crusher math:

Damage is base * fTP + fInt, where fInt is 8+dInt/2. I made a rough guess of fInt 49 (82 int over the target, 87 total int), but could be off.

339 - 49 = 290
290 / 3.625 = 80
So base damage is 80

351 - 49 = 302
302 / 80 = 3.775 == new fTP

3.775 - 3.625 = 0.15, the fTP gain

Supports the possibility of +0.15 fTP.


Misc attempts to get the high values to fit just don't work (tend towards 0.2 fTP bonus, which is way too high to match other testing data). Since I don't know what other factors may be involved, ignoring that.



On Tiger's test:

Warp cudgel: d15
max fStr: 9
WSC: 96 * 50% * 0.85 = 40

Total base damage: 64

64 * 1.0 * 3.15 = 201.6 = 201
Matches max observed damage without belt.

218 max with belt is an 8.5% increase over base, implying perhaps a +0.1 fTP.

3.0 pDif = 192
Value where multiple results were starting to be observed (expected due to higher frequency of 3.0+ pDif results).


With the belt equipped, the frequency increase appears to happen at 210 damage (implied max of 220, where 218 was observed). If 210 is the 3.0 pDif, that puts base damage at 70. 70/64 = +10%, so +0.1 fTP.


So Tiger's data supports +0.1 fTP while Velecic's data supports +0.15 fTP.

Thanks for pointing out the fINT part not being affected by fTP. I should have known from doing the Wildfire calculations, but it slipped my mind. Next best test to run is using a Ranged WS, but there's none that work for thunder gorget =x.

[Gokku]

for a victory smite monk , would it be RR / GR / VV for tanking and then the Triple attack atma for pure DPS / WS dmg? *in place of GH atma*

[Cream Soda]

RR GH SS for Tanking/damage.

If it's 10% triple attack, then RR VV AO for DD, if it's only 5% (which mosts tests seem to show atm), then RR GH SS wins for damage too.

Crit dmg caps at 50% yes, but now that you're critting 74% instead of 54, (+ impetus), SS comes back as a contender.


Edit: From montonen

Ok, implemented TA into weaponskills as well as melee.

Setting up a couple simple comparisons using mid-grade gear set and 2-3 atma. +40 to all stats from cruor buffs. Haste spell, no other haste buffs. Impetus used (60% uptime). No Boost used. Bison Steak.

Weapons are either Fire Taipans +2 using Ascetic's Fury or Revenents +2 using Victory Smite.

First atma is always RR:
Taipans: 176.483
Revenants: 216.276

Sets with second atma of:

Stout Arm:
Taipans: 195.090
Revenants: 240.763

VV:
Taipans: 200.038
Revenants: 249.695

GH/DD:
Taipans: 200.113
Revenants: 242.242

A&O (assumed 10% TA for Major effect):
Taipans: 200.848
Revenants: 242.273

Sanguine Scythe:
Taipans: 199.543
Revenants: 240.684


So VV, GH and A&O are all roughly on par with each other and slightly ahead of SA. VV takes a slight lead with Revenant's Victory Smite use due to the high str.


With a third atma you have room to push a bit more defensive stats in your atma choice, so may want something like Sanguine Scythe's +HP, GH's +counter, Siren Shadow's +eva, etc. Your choice in that regard depends on what you're doing, so I'll just note it and move on.

For pure, unmitigated offense, what sorts of combos can we put together?


Max crit rate: RR+GH+DD (reduces the effectiveness of Impetus)
Taipans: 210.821
Revenants: 255.304

So only a small gain.

Max crit damage: RR+GH+Sanguine Scythe
Taipans: 228.753
Revenants: 277.303

So a fairly healthy gain, and +HP as well.


Add triple attack to either VV or GH:
RR+GH+A&O:
Taipans: 225.418
Revenants: 273.484

RR+VV+A&O:
Taipans: 225.965
Revenants: 285.174

About the same either way for the Taipans, though the Revenants get a lot more from combining with VV. Both are fairly close to the RR+GH+SS option, which I'd likely choose simply for +30% HP instead of -25% HP; GH+SS certainly provides excellent defense along with the offense.

There's also Roaring Laughter. Major Str implies +40 there (same as Stout Arm). Since GH's +counter of ~10% is Minor, would expect +15% with Major +counter, though might be as high as 20%. Even 15%, though, combined with GH and Counterstance would put us at a nominal 85% counter rate, up to 93% with Usu hands, Backlash Torque, Ultion Mantle and WotG reward earring, and then Perfect Counter for another percent or two. Would be nigh immune to melee hit damage.

Ordinary damage output including that as the third (RR+GH+RL):
Taipans: 208.066
Revenants: 256.727

Back to being only a small improvement over two atma in terms of damage output. The extra counter rate should more than make up the difference, though, I think. With those three atma, I don't think there'd be any excuse left not to go /war, except maybe if you need someone to proc ninjutsu nukes.

And just realized I'd left in the -10 MA delay from the Tantra+2 body in these calculations, so actual values should be slightly lower. Relative scale should remain the same, though, so I don't feel like going back and redoing it all.

[Kyte]

Pahluwan body vs Mirkegeon, with RR on Monk. Obviously neither is optimal but I want to know which, out of the things in my inventory, is better until I get a Loki's Kafkan, AF3 body, change augments etc.

Actually I guess Aurore should be considered too, and since it is already my understanding that Aurore>Mirkegeon inside abyssea, I guess it is really only between those two. I hate the pink though =(

[Gun-it]

6hit 450 delay GKT w/ 22 haste or 5hit 464 w/ 19haste (20.5 haste) w/ hasso