Level Cap to Be Lifted to New Heights! (08/25/2010)

[evilpaul]

Wasn't there two other threads in this section where people were arguing NIN was fine because it was so useful/great at lots of stuff?

[evilpaul]

Wasn't there two other threads in this section where people were arguing NIN was fine because it was so useful/great at lots of stuff?

[Plow]

Wasn't there two other threads in this section where people were arguing NIN was fine because it was so useful/great at lots of stuff?

no, just one where people were butthurt about nin being popular during CoP and arguing that it should never be fixed now as a result

[Taruking]

Sure, it's beneficial... for soloing. His point stands, unless the boost is freaking massive, it will do absolutely nothing to entice anyone to use a ninja in group scenarios.

Seriously how on earth is boosting elemental ninjitsu going to help NIN solo? You can't even take advantage of Innin while soloing.

An inevitable outcome of level cap raise is that DD jobs are soon going to be able to pump out high damage WS and nukes consistently. New gear such as magian staves, convert, refresh II/mage Ballads III allow BLMs to nuke harder and longer. On the other hands, all 3 main endgame tank jobs no longer have access to low cost CE spells that generate large amount of CE over short period of time. It's going to be a nightmare for a PLD to try to hold hate against army of BLMs at lv 99. That's probably why SE decide to add new emnity related JA/spells.

Elemental ninjitsu don't need a massive boost to their baseline damage to be useful. NIN will be able to hold hate nicely if they can consistently deal 1.5-2k damage in full haste/eminty gear every 1 minute. A baseline damage of 100 per ni and 200 per san spells will do the trick since both groups of elemental ninjitsu have fairly short cast time (1.5s vs 2.5s) and recast (45s vs 60 s) provided they don't get resisted consistently. It's also far less MP dependent which means COR will be able to skip Evoker's roll and go straight to Wizard's/Caster's rolls. It's also an ideal form of tanking against HNMs that are resistant or immune to physical damage.

[Plow]

Seriously how on earth is boosting elemental ninjitsu going to help NIN solo? You can't even take advantage of Innin while soloing.

An inevitable outcome of level cap raise is that DD jobs are soon going to be able to pump out high damage WS and nukes consistently. New gear such as magian staves, convert, refresh II/mage Ballads III allow BLMs to nuke harder and longer. On the other hands, all 3 main endgame tank jobs no longer have access to low cost CE spells that generate large amount of CE over short period of time. It's going to be a nightmare for a PLD to try to hold hate against army of BLMs at lv 99. That's probably why SE decide to add new emnity related JA/spells.

Elemental ninjitsu don't need a massive boost to their baseline damage to be useful. NIN will be able to hold hate nicely if they can consistently deal 1.5-2k damage in full haste/eminty gear every 1 minute. A baseline damage of 100 per ni and 200 per san spells will do the trick since both groups of elemental ninjitsu have fairly short cast time (1.5s vs 2.5s) and recast (45s vs 60 s) provided they don't get resisted consistently. It's also far less MP dependent which means COR will be able to skip Evoker's roll and go straight to Wizard's/Caster's rolls. It's also an ideal form of tanking against HNMs that are resistant or immune to physical damage.

a. San don't do more than ni
b. It would take a freaking huge boost to get them consistently doing 100+ to high level mobs in enmity gear

[Snick]

This may come as a shock, but if for some reason a BLM does pull hate, they don't immediately drop dead.

I can admit I'm wrong if I am, but NIN nukes need a huge boost to be worth it. I don't see it happening. Maybe don't count your chickens quite yet? I dunno~

[Taruking]

a. San don't do more than ni
b. It would take a freaking huge boost to get them consistently doing 100+ to high level mobs in enmity gear

a) Are you sure about this? what's the point of getting san spells if they don't do more damage than ni, have higher cast/recast time and cost merit point (all elemental ninjitsu give same amount of elemental resistance down effect) Even if you are right, SE can still change the baseline damage of san spells and make them higher than ni. That's why it's called adjustment.
b) Not necessary. They just need consistency similar to QD.

This may come as a shock, but if for some reason a BLM does pull hate, they don't immediately drop dead.

What's the point of adding new spells/gear if BLMs are not allowed to deal more damage simply because tanks can't handle it? Might as well keep everything the same.

[Plow]

a) Are you sure about this? what's the point of getting san spells if they don't do more damage than ni, have higher cast/recast time and cost merit point (all elemental ninjitsu give same amount of elemental resistance down effect) Even if you are right, SE can still change the baseline damage of san spells and make them higher than ni. That's why it's called adjustment.
b) Not necessary. They just need consistency similar to QD.

a. Yes, I'm sure. They give a bigger resistance down debuff. It's retarded. The only point is having more to spam when soloing which isn't really even necessary.
b. Consistency similar to qd would be a fucking massive improvement. You realize we can cast exponentially more often than they can qd, right?

What's the point of adding new spells/gear if BLMs are not allowed to deal more damage simply because tanks can't handle it? Might as well keep everything the same.

I dunno, why don't you ask AMII's? Or, you know, any new ability in the entire game, seeing how there are enmity caps and all.

There are plenty of things accomplished by more gear/spells beyond raw damage in group scenarios. Then again, you asked how ninjutsu helps nin solo, sooo... yeah.

[Taruking]

a. Yes, I'm sure. They give a bigger resistance down debuff. It's retarded. The only point is having more to spam when soloing which isn't really even necessary. Consistency similar to qd would be a fucking massive improvement. You realize we can cast exponentially more often than they can qd, right?

Direct quote from wikipedia:
"The resistance down on an elemental ninjutsu is -30 regardless of the level of the ninjutsu. The resistance down lasts for 15 seconds."

Not sure it will convince you since BG ppl are generally quite skeptical when information is pulled directly from "the other wiki". Where is your source of information?

I don't think giving elemental ninjitsu accuracy consistent with QD will break the job if the baseline damage of san spells cap at 200. 6 spells = 1.2k damage which is not even close to one BLM Tier IV nuke. Besides there is already a system in place to prevent abuse of elemental ninjitsu. i.e. the most you can have is probably 2-3 NIN spamming elemental wheel at any given time.

I dunno, why don't you ask AMII's? Or, you know, any new ability in the entire game, seeing how there are enmity caps and all.

There are plenty of things accomplished by more gear/spells beyond raw damage in group scenarios. Then again, you asked how ninjutsu helps nin solo, sooo... yeah.

AMII do not hit particularly harder than agaIII spells outside of MB. It simply provides another option for BLM to unload MP (e.g. Tiamat and Ouryu).

Magian staves are likely to continue to improve as they raise the level cap further, and BLM will have access to new gear (AF3?), potentially new MAB trait and higher base INT. The extra MP cost of Tier V spells will be offset by convert, refresh2/Ballad3. Unless SE make some adjustment there is no way the current tanking mechanism will be able to cope with increasing demand to maintain capped VE and CE esp. after CE spell nerf.

[Snprphnx]

If we gotta dump merits into the :San spells, they should at least deal 3/4 the damage as an AM 2. To stop abuse of it, have it eat up more tools, like 30 maybe, or even 50. Something to make nins not want to spam continually. This would also make ninja tool expertise a decent trait.

Just my opinion, but meh.

[Sho]

If we gotta dump merits into the :San spells, they should at least deal 3/4 the damage as an AM 2. To stop abuse of it, have it eat up more tools, like 30 maybe, or even 50. Something to make nins not want to spam continually. This would also make ninja tool expertise a decent trait.

Just my opinion, but meh.

What they really should have done is modified the merits so they further increase damage and/or accuracy of a specific elemental Ni and San ninjutsu (or changed the merits so they increase enmity levels with each cast), then simply added all elemental San spells as purchasable scrolls, but of course SE is proving with each day that they have no idea how to boost Ninja outside of new things.

Increased elemental damage is a good start, but it's still missing the mark.

[Khajit]

That makes so much sense that i have no hope of it happening. Especially since SE just basically did that to rdm and whm with shell/protect.