Tanaka blames foreign sites for rumors + XP Discussion

[Lucavi]

I'm all for fucking over people who play MMORPG's too long. Generally, they're the biggest asses I meet while playing, the griefers, the no-life farmers, the "RAIDAN IS EVERYTHING" folks that should suck a bag of dicks.

Besides, we already have folks who starved their kids to death playing Starcraft. Why encourage neglecting your real life for what is obviously a highly addictive form of gaming? We all laughed at the warning in FFXI, knowing people ignore it. Now it's part of the game.

(And besides, it's not like you can't go do something that doesn't involve exp if you really, REALLY don't have a life. It's just pure anti-grinding.)

I don't pay $15 bucks a month for a company to try and act like my parent. Telling me not to play too much is one thing - instituting some "punishment" for playing their game too much is another beast entirely.

When a customer pays you and invests in your product, you take care of your customer. I'm not a drunk, and I'm not drinking alcohol. I don't need SE acting as some MMO bartender, telling me when I've had enough to "drink", and throwing me out of their bar. If I'm not breaking your ToS, then kindly sit the hell down and let me enjoy what I'm PAYING YOU to let me enjoy, and if I -AM- breaking your ToS by playing too much, then I'll gladly leave, take my money elsewhere, and encourage my friends to do the same.

"Hey guys, if you have more than 5 beers at this bar, they throw you out. Lets roll and never come here again."

When SE makes this shit free, then they can make all the bullshit time and moneysinks they want, but at this rate, FFXIV'll hit F2P status faster than DnD Online did.

@Hyan: I've partially addressed in my previous post some methods of slowing people down, or, at the very least, how to give them other things to do besides chase after the almighty loot table. Honestly, though, with all the Fafnirs, Tiamats, Cerbs and KBs in FFXI, you'd think SE would have grown to love that system - much like an adopted son with some terrible social disorder - and would try to keep it.

[Charismatic]

So it seems people were hitting the surplus due to the adjustments made in XP gain from leves/mobs. I have a feeling that by launch this will be a non-issue and people can still play to their hearts content. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out by retail.

Wasn't there people hitting the level cap during the beta even with the surplus?

The level cap is only 30 and the beta test phase 3 started on the 10th. Averaging more than 2 levels a day isn't really impressive in pretty much any game aside from those with the most hardcore grind.

[Correction]

I'm all for fucking over people who play MMORPG's too long. Generally, they're the biggest asses I meet while playing, the griefers, the no-life farmers, the "RAIDAN IS EVERYTHING" folks that should suck a bag of dicks.

Outside of trolling, I don't understand this attitude.

When SE locks non-endgame content behind 'glad you enjoyed that cutscene and easy 6-man battle, but the next door is locked, please wait until the next content patch' people RAGE because they paid full retail price for an expansion that's delivered to them over six $13 subscription payments. Now it's perfectly okay to do the same to players trying to get to the fucking level cap, on a week to week basis?

The sum total of stupid shit people say in Section: FFXIV climbs ever higher.

[Selamis]

A grind that casuals can tolerate = A grind where you can make progress in a reasonable amount of time.

This is, of course, something people overlook because SE doesn't know how to market their systems to the public.



I agree that the game is not ready to be released, but they are not going to pass on months worth of revenue just because we think so.

If they think they can do this, they will. Provide them with good enough explanation as to why you are sure that the game will tank as is, and they might listen. It's you vs. profit.

People have tried on the beta forums saying ideas and suggestions on things to fix, so far little to none of them have been taken to heart. SE keeps saying "we know about these issues....we have this planned for future updates" and still nothing. If they haven't adjusted anything for the start of open beta that needs to be addressed, then yes, this game will tank within months. If they listen to us and implement our suggestions to make the game what we want from the get go, it has a shot. Getting rid of surplus is one of those things that needs to go.

[Ae Cha]

I agree that the game is not ready to be released, but they are not going to pass on months worth of revenue just because we think so.

If they think they can do this, they will. Provide them with good enough explanation as to why you are sure that the game will tank as is, and they might listen. It's you vs. profit.

They can either lose months worth of revenue, or they can lose dedicated subscribers and their years' worth of subscriptions. The kind of people this limit targets are the people who will stick around and play month after month. I would plan for the long term, if I were them; it's not like Square Enix isn't rich as fuck already. They're not going to go bankrupt if they delay a game release.

[Selamis]

So it seems people were hitting the surplus due to the adjustments made in XP gain from leves/mobs. I have a feeling that by launch this will be a non-issue and people can still play to their hearts content. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out by retail.

Wasn't there people hitting the level cap during the beta even with the surplus?

It has nothing to do with the xp gained that affects surplus, it's the amount of time you spent on that particular job/class. People hit the level cap because of the xp glitch at the start of beta 3.

[Hyan]

They can either lose months worth of revenue, or they can lose dedicated subscribers and their years' worth of subscriptions. The kind of people this limit targets are the people who will stick around and play month after month. I would plan for the long term, if I were them; it's not like Square Enix isn't rich as fuck already.

Ding ding ding.

This whole system is exactly them "planning for the long term".

This will surely limit initial sales, but when have MMO's been about the initial sales?

They think they can do this like they did FFXI. Steady increase over the years. Players that will keep playing for years. Prove them wrong, and they will listen.

[Brodan]

I'm reading complete translation and I'm so far okay with it. Yes, my playstyle is casual so I don't see this system limiting me noticeably.
I don't care about psychos grinding 16hr/day for weeks or RMT sharing an account.

[Lucavi]

A grind that casuals can tolerate = A grind where you can make progress in a reasonable amount of time.

This is, of course, something people overlook because SE doesn't know how to market their systems to the public.



I agree that the game is not ready to be released, but they are not going to pass on months worth of revenue just because we think so.

If they think they can do this, they will. Provide them with good enough explanation as to why you are sure that the game will tank as is, and they might listen. It's you vs. profit.

How are casuals making progress in a reasonable amount of time in this system? They're still chasing the carrot from within the wheel, they're just moving at whatever little snails pace that SE wants them to move at, while not straining SE's servers.

That's what I don't understand. So you're Mr. Casual. So you level from 1-10 with a job in a half hours' worth of leves. You then log off and come back 3 days later. People around you are still miserable because of this system.

There's going to be unhappy people all over the place. You think beta had bitching via /shout? Imagine retail. Even if I -WAS- a casual, I'd still hate playing a game where so many people were crying and moaning like zombies because of a retarded system.

Casuals wouldn't even want to admit they were casuals to other people, because any "hardcores" would instantly hate them and blame them for a system that punishes hardcores.

I simply cannot see this working. There are far too many unintended social and gameplay side effects that SE is just not looking at. This will. not. end. well.

[Gulkeeva]

So it seems people were hitting the surplus due to the adjustments made in XP gain from leves/mobs. I have a feeling that by launch this will be a non-issue and people can still play to their hearts content. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out by retail.

Wasn't there people hitting the level cap during the beta even with the surplus?

Only a few in beta 3 , probably a handful.

Got to consider those people also had like a 2nd PC to self spam leve's (and also a insane boost of exp from leve's at the start) where skillups were like 4000's.

Consider thats only 1 job to 30, out of 18 classes
and that people that reached 30 only got a few "sub" classes to like 6-8 for a skill or less.

Its still going to take awhile even without surplus to achieve multi Lv 40? 50? (retail) classes.

[Katlan]

A grind that casuals can tolerate = A grind where you can make progress in a reasonable amount of time.

You still have to grind, you just have a limit on how much you can grind. In fact, your grinding more w/ this system. Not just do you have to grind one job (at a time), but you need to grind multiple jobs if you want to play the game regularly and not just 8-10hrs a week.

There is no diff in the gring Hyan, its still the same. They are only putting a limit on how much you can grind so that casuals don't get left behind. It's almost like they are planning on doing 24hr window kings again, but this time they want everyone to get to the Kings at the same time, instead of letting the hardcore farm em first. Otherwise, who cares?

Wow has casual guilds and hardcore guilds. The diff between both doesn't matter because both enjoy the game at their own pace. So why can't ppl enjoy XIV at their own pace? There is no lesser grind, there is no "grind that casuals can enjoy" its all the same grind, just made so that hardcore can't progress faster then casuals. thats all. the grind is the same

[Charismatic]

This will surely limit initial sales, but when have MMO's been about the initial sales?

Since for-fucking-ever.
If on release, people think the game sucks and tell their friends the game sucks... the game isn't going to do well later on.

[ufo]

there is no rested system. rested is essentially guardian favor.
You start at 100% xp for 8hrs. Each subsequent hr, after those 8hrs, you lose 10% of ur xp until you reach 0%. Even if they left you w/ 10% xp.. nobody is gonna kill shit when they need (even) 20k tnl and are getting 10-50xp a kill.

It's just a name, they could call that 100% xp "rested" and 10% of that "normal". I think hardcore people will keep leveling when they are making only 10% xp.

[Akiyama]

Since for-fucking-ever.
If on release, people think the game sucks and tell their friends the game sucks... the game isn't going to do well later on.

This is correct. In a way, it's much like a manga. If it starts out shit, it's not going to suddenly pick up thousands upon thousands of more fans. It'll just keep dropping in rankings until it's completely forgotten about.

If 14 starts out with shit for subscriptions, then it wouldn't be a good thing. Even if they were to change things that everyone hated, it'd still probably be too late to pick up enough fans to continue on.

[Ghostsix.Midgard]

So it seems people were hitting the surplus due to the adjustments made in XP gain from leves/mobs. I have a feeling that by launch this will be a non-issue and people can still play to their hearts content. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out by retail.

Wasn't there people hitting the level cap during the beta even with the surplus?

People were hitting surplus in phase 2, but it wasn't showing in the logs so no one had any idea wtf was going on.

[SilverBreeze]

Human beings will "waste their time" on a game to the point of physical harm at this point. S-E and other game designers have realized that MMORPG's are the videogame equivalent of crack, and that people will play their game until they wreck their real life chasing exp and gil around. Fuck, people have starved their kids to death for random gaming, or played till they died on Starcraft, literally in both cases.

People do lots of stupid things that make no sense, but you can't put rules on everything. Crazy pregnant women throwing their newborn children into dumpsters, I guess we better make it so you can't bring a baby within 200' of a dumpster now worldwide or you go to jail. Men and women every day "wreck" their lives chasing after money and pussy, better put a law up for that too.

You can't decide how people spend their free time based on a few idiots if you want to be successful.

There's already so many people canceling their preorders based on what they've seen, this seriously seems like it's going to be the final nail in the coffin.

[Hyan]

How are casuals making progress in a reasonable amount of time in this system? They're still chasing the carrot from within the wheel, they're just moving at whatever little snails pace that SE wants them to move at, while not straining SE's servers.

With this system, SE can make make the game less grindy. If the system works as it should, it won't be a snails pace, because that's exactly what SE wants to avoid with this system.

[Ae Cha]

With this system, SE can make make the game less grindy. If the system works as it should, it won't be a snails pace, because that's exactly what SE wants to avoid with this system.

How is reducing experience going to make the game any less grindy?

[Hyan]

Since for-fucking-ever.
If on release, people think the game sucks and tell their friends the game sucks... the game isn't going to do well later on.

FFXI was not like that.

Please, if you can, prove them that the FFXI way won't work anymore.

How is reducing experience going to make the game any less grindy?

Holy shit, are you this dumb? Or rather, blind? I have been explaining this for what 3 pages now?

[omegaB]

The system is bad, the mechanics are bad, as soon as you hit a mob your on an exp countdown to doom? dumb idea.
If its a certain amount of exp, your leaving efficient levelers with nothing to do on the classes they like

Not to mention the ways of dealing with the limits this stuff promotes.

Ill say it again there is almost no advantage in being higher level in this game. If this is thier plan to make it good for casuals, they should have really just killed exp totally, made us quest for skills and kill for mats to make gears or something. You dont need leveling to make your game exciting, FFXI had level cap at 75 for like 5 years. guildwars had a level cap of 20 and people still play that game today.

your not making the game better for someone who plays 1 hour a day by stopping people who play 5 hours a day, they are on totally different worlds. Its when people are the same level they have problems, needing to kill the same mobs wanting the same things, etc. the only person your helping is the dude whose friends leveled faster than him, and hey level sync solved that.

How is penalizing people who play more helping casuals, i dont really get it. Not to mention this system makes it even harder to catch up to people, once you fall behind you will stay behind this sets the minimum amount of time it will take for ps3ers to catch up, or late comers. its a bad idea on so many levels.