Tanaka blames foreign sites for rumors + XP Discussion

[el_tio]

are we talking about this yet?

Uhhhhh kinda but kinda not.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97820

[Callisto]

Going forward:

If you wish to debate the merits of the current incarnation of the surplus system, still, you're an idiot but you're still welcome to.

If you wish to add updates/new translations of dev responses to the current issues, and/or discuss that, you're welcome to.

If you wish to call someone names, add a 'qtf'/umad/etc., just say something mean about Tanaka's ugly pug-dog, bitch about the section mods, or add something else useless, sarcastic, and off-topic, I will probably just ban you on the spot as a knee-jerk reflex due to being cranky from cleaning up all of the retarded dribble in this thread for the last 40 minutes, and sort it out with the admins later.

Carry on.

[Cadsuane]

First, I'm going to link Waraji's post with the (afaik) official English dev response
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...&postcount=184

BG mods should have a tool to implement a fucking pop up with "you must read this shit before you can post in this thread", when the need arises.


I do not mind 100% ->8hr-> 100% ->7hr-> ??%, though I think the 8/15 should be a bigger number.
My rage is not that exp/skill rate decreases, it's that the end point is -> 0%. <-
The end point being 50% would be great, 33% would be fine, 25% or 20% might even work.
But ZERO is unacceptable.

Though as someone else mentioned, just based on time has issues.
Get a single point of exp, and you are now resigned to fifteen hours of getting exp NOW, using it or losing it for the whole week.
Get a single skillup, and you have to get that fifteen hours in NOW for that class or lose it.

And just time based means if you go about getting that skill/exp in a gimp manner, you're screwing yourself. If XIV has one "colibri exp/skill rate" spot, and you aren't in it, well balls to you.
In XI if you get a gimp party, you can always hope for a better one another day.
With this, in XIV if you get a gimp party/leve, you're fucked for the week.

0% really fucks it over, yeah. If the exp dwindled to a quarter for example you could still call it a rest system with a 400% starting bonus.

[Cichy]

0% really fucks it over, yeah. If the exp dwindled to a quarter for example you could still call it a rest system with a 400% starting bonus.

Yes if it was a bonus system like in aion where the bonus accumulates during your offline time there would be no problem.
The problem is that this system is designed to penalize the players which hits a sensitive spot with everyone around.
Like many others I dont have time to play 8 hours a day and consider myself casual player, however, if I wanna grind hardcore I want the option too.
Same as irl with cigarettes, I dont smoke but if I want too I wanna go and buy a whole god damn carton and if you want to smoke I think you should be able to knock yourself out.

[qpoiuwer]

I think we'll see in open beta it's not actually as bad as imagined. Elmer's translation sheds a little more light. It seems as though it's only a deterrent to those who plan on playing 12+ hours a day doing nothing but trying to level to the cap (the purpose of which could be several reasons). They specifically say that surplus will decrease over time, suggesting that you may have potentially 8 hours worth of normal exping, plus ~1-2 hours every subsequent day until the weekly reset, at which point you're up to 8 again (though it's hard to say without knowing how fast exactly it will decrease). Also like they said in the post, a large portion of the problem was us gaining 10 levels worth of exp in 20 minutes, plus the other exp issues they had, which meant that once they fixed it we were already well beyond what we should have been at for those 8 hours. Then as people kept playing and playing and not taking a break, the situation never fixed itself. It may be a hindrance for the first week or so, but in the longer run I doubt it'll be a major issue.

As someone who intends on leveling 2 DoL, 2 DoH, and 1 DoW class on around ~30 hours a week of playtime, I don't intend on seeing much surplus exp.

[Metafox]

This system is on a weekly timer. After a week has passed since you began skilling that particular weapon, the timer will reset. It will start anew when you skill up again.

Yes if it was a bonus system like in aion where the bonus accumulates during your offline time there would be no problem.
The problem is that this system is designed to penalize the players which hits a sensitive spot with everyone around.
Like many others I dont have time to play 8 hours a day and consider myself casual player, however, if I wanna grind hardcore I want the option too.

I'm confused, didn't they say that it resets after a week? Doesn't that mean we're only supposed to exp for 8 hours a week?

[Iku]

This 'fatigue' system is retarded. Seriously, i aint gonna pay monthly for a game that tells me i played too much you need to do something else. I can easily put out 40+ hours of game time per weeks and crank out at least 10+ hours/day on Friday and weekend. So that means i can play my preferred class in 1 day and play other i dont give a shit classes during the week.

[Baelari]

Elmer's translation says something along the lines of time spent not grinding will lessen the surplus exp, so it seems like you could get in more than 8 hours a week, just not more than 8 hours of undiminished exp grinding at a time.

It also said that the 8 hours was an approximation (from before exp for guildleves was tweaked?). They chose an exp cap based on what exp you would get from 8 hours of playing... so actual times may vary according to your exp rate, if I understand it correctly.


Edit: And yeah, I agree that it shouldn't diminish to 0%. That's taking it a bit too far.

[Cichy]

Yeah the did say 8 hours a week which is not much for anyone. Though the new interview says that the system was harsh just for the beta. IMO they trying to cover their ass.
The other day I was reading the thing about how japanese players in FFXI frowned upon NA players for ninja dc'ing and logging on parties and thought to myself that with this system that would happen way more often. "Whoops I hit my surplus, peace out!"

[Senji]

Not much different from "I'm sleepy" > warp.

[Cantih]

Elmer's translation is boss, clears things up, and addresses the whole bottom half of my post.

[Syntex]

I can see why SE is trying to do this but they are going the wrong fucking way about it.

If you have 2 groups of people, say the 'casual' and the 'hardcore' and you want to lessen the differences between them you can either improve the casuals way of leveling which is what wow did with rested XP or you can halt the hardcore people's progression which is what they are doing.

The biggest problem is that 8 hours for an MMO is not even enough time for most casuals and whats worse is your alienating your hardcore playerbase completely with this method.

No one likes nerfs and its better to buff peoples time who can't play as often then to halt the others completely.

Like others have said in this thread what happens if you had plans to go somewhere for the weekend but shit happened and you got nothing to do? You can't level your maxed. Called in because your sick with the flu? Can't do much in 14 your at your cap.

And like others have said even if they wanted us to level other jobs we shouldn't be forced to if we don't want to.

I think putting a cap on the physical part of a character per week is fine this way the stats that carry over class to class wont let people who level super hard will be able to snowball other melee/caster classes to cap with unparalleled speed. However putting a cap on the jobs themselves is stupid because people want to level it and when people who might not know of the system play the game and stop gaining XP 2 days in, log out for a day or 2 and can't play their character and level up then they are more likely going to say screw the game and quit thinking its bugged more then anything.

My biggest peeve I guess is that 8/15 hours is too short even for the casual gamer and either needs to be doubled/tripled or reset every 2-4 days and/or class XP is unaffected and only the physical job part is capped on a weekly basis.

Another thing I did want to mention is that people saying this is in place to give SE time to make endgame content need to open their eyes and look at how MMO's work. Aion did poorly because we are now in an age where people are smarter and it no longer takes people 8+ months to level in a game where it did 10 years ago. People are experienced and smarter then before and are leveling at speeds so fast its causing possibly good games to falter because of lack of endgame content which is kind of where Aion is now.

Look at XI launch, we started with Zilart. Now if you been playing since Japan release you would know that the endgame was your AF quests, the rams adjacent to dunes and the 3 level 55 NM's around Jeuno THATS ALL YOU GOT FOR ENDGAME. You take any person who got to that endgame with zilart 6+ months away and they would quit and complain there is nothing to do, the difference is by time most NA players got to cap which was slow due to how the party system was set up in XI that CoP was coming and there was a lot to do with Sky, ZM's, Kings, along with the newly raised level cap to 75 and merits(if they came in at this point I'm not sure).

So in other words to say SE is delaying people because lack of content is stupid. MMO's always lack endgame content on launch but with people banging out a supposed 8 month grind in 8 days it causes problems.

Someone also mentioned by capping XP so quickly it causes everyone to sit at the same spot so everyone will be hitting dunes/qufim/kazhaam at the same time and we all know how it is to have 20 XP parties in one area, it sucks. By raising the cap so that everyone can't reach it in a week even if its to something like 20-30 hours it allows for variance and lets people spread out a bit which is good. Lastly people being able to only level a job a set amount per week means anyone who didn't start from launch can't make up for lost time no matter what they do. You think it was hard in FFXI to come back with a new character 2-3 years late into the game? Imagine to get to 75 you had to take 18 months to do it on one job because you can only get 20k xp a week, on top of everything else. Yea you will never ever catch up and it just makes the gap between players even bigger.

Now this is still beta and we will have to wait and see what changes and if they even keep this in but with the news from Elmer I am starting to see a light at the end of this tunnel and hopefully it gets brighter.

EDIT:

Uhhhhh kinda but kinda not.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97820

Why is it when I click that link I get permission denied? Isn't it a public post?

[Nevex]

And like others have said even if they wanted us to level other jobs we shouldn't be forced to if we don't want to.

You're never free in a MMORPG no matter the way you look at it.
The hardcore players are restricted by the boundiares that both the game and the community set, so if the community says "You're not going anywhere by leveling just one class" it will most likely be like that.

I'm indifferent to the surplus system but I can see why people can't stand it, because it reminds them of the dreadfully slow grinding progression during the first stages of FFXI that we all hated.

The "hardcore" players will simply need to adjust themselves and reach their goals in a different order, that's all. The only significant change in the long run is that they won't be able to brag about hitting the level cap on a certain job in 5 days or so.
Besides, you would hardly define a mono-class player "hardcore", that's the sheer definition of "casual" in my book. Which is why I'm not sure how this system is going to favor casuals over hardcore players.

[Yoli]

I'm indifferent to the surplus system but I can see why people can't stand it, because it reminds them of the dreadfully slow grinding progression during the first stages of FFXI that we all hated.

That's not it at all. I know a lot of people disliked that too, but I actually was a fan. I thouhght xp parties were lots of fun (so long as they were non-awful).

The reason I hate this is that it's telling me I can only level 8-12 hours a week or so on my favorite job. Sure I can play more, but what if I'm simply not interested in xping archer? (Or w/e job).

I played ffxi for a long time, but in all that time I only really played two jobs (although I got a few more up to the cap by the end, mostly just because I had nothing better to do with my spare time). I got all the useful (and a bunch of non-useful) subs up to 37, but that was it. And I'd focus on knocking the subjobs out early, so I could happily forget about them.

Besides, you would hardly define a mono-class player "hardcore", that's the sheer definition of "casual" in my book.

I disagree entirely. I spent unhealthy amounts of time online w/ my shell getting tiamat and friends. And then I spent unhealthy amounts of time farming and fishing. I'm sure there are other people who played the game extensively, without spending their time getting every job up (and I'm equally aware of lots of people who did end up with 8 or however many jobs, and didn't have a particular preference for which they used).


I have nothing against having to level up extra jobs to get abilities that let me use my class to its fullest (as is needed in 14), but I do hate the idea of SE not letting me choose how to level up. I really don't look forward to the idea having to split it into 8/8/8/8 hour rotations.

I would go and cancel my preorder, except I was one of the people dumb enough to fork out for a new pc (... hey, at least it came with a sweet online checkers game).

That said though, this becomes a lot less of a problem as the game grows up. Leveling limits will be a huge deal (and annoyance) at the start, but once people /do/ hit the level cap on their job it really won't actually make any difference at all. I don't know how long it will take to hit the cap under this system, but if it's not /that/ long, it might not be a huge deal for that reason alone. I guess.

I really don't like it though. If it's not changed I can see myself possibly becoming frustrated enough to just never really let the game take.

[miokomioko]

The point is this is a different game. This works differently than FFXI. This is a game where you can't just simply play one little class the whole way through because you prefer to tank. In fact, this is a game where sticking to one class actually makes you INFERIOR to others.

This isn't about slowing down the exp process, it's to help lead by the hand the people who just don't get it otherwise.

You can sit there and do nothing but Fish in XIV and deal with the fatigue and frustrating slow-down of the process just to constantly grind to be the best fisher you can be. However, if you instead played some Miner/Botanist shit when Fishing was unbearably fatigued, you'd actually earn abilities that make your Fisher better than it could be on its own.

People are bitching about being forced to play multiple classes because they want to play and excel at one class when to be the best at one class requires playing multiple classes! WAT.

Casual players aren't benefitting from this system because they are still playing less and ultimately will have less class ranks and won't have all the ability options a hardcore player will have.

[Celeras]

This isn't about slowing down the exp process, it's to help lead by the hand the people who just don't get it otherwise.

Lol, do you actually believe the bullshit you're spewing right now?

[Hyan]

This isn't about slowing down the exp process, it's to help lead by the hand the people who just don't get it otherwise.

Actually, it is about slowing down the vertical progress while not making the grind unbearable.

It could be a genius system if SE used their marketing experts to magically make the changes seem "good" for the community.

Now it's just HERP DERP PENALTY THIS, FATIGUE THAT and the community is /raging.

[Hyan]

y double post y

[miokomioko]

Lol, do you actually believe the bullshit you're spewing right now?

Do you believe anyone cares that you got all huffypuffy and cancelled your preorder?

[Yoli]

Double Posted it seems.