Tanaka blames foreign sites for rumors + XP Discussion

[Jex]

I know this is beta, but this community has a habit of speculating because of FFXI's track record, too much about that game was cryptic, just fucking tell us how shit works. Tell me exactly how much more % mitigation I get from adding VIT, tell me exactly how much crit/dodge I gain from AGI, tell me exactly how much attack power I gain from STR, tell me exactly how much % more magic damage I do per point of INT. And make it all easy to see in the damn character screen. People shouldn't have to read through 4 different forums to know what the stats do. It's not even an advanced concept, any newbie should easily be able to find out in-game how stats affect him, it shouldn't be a fucking mystery that requires investigation and outside reading.

I mean I understand you have to go beyond the game to find out how to min/max your character, but just to know what the basic stats do? C'mon.

I WANT TO KNOW HOW THE FUCK TREASURE HUNTER WORKS AND IS IT NOT ACTUALLY BULLSHIT?

[xopher]

I WANT TO KNOW HOW THE FUCK TREASURE HUNTER WORKS AND IS IT NOT ACTUALLY BULLSHIT?

Each level of Treasure hunter allows you another single roll at the drop list of a mob. This can end up with another item or nothing at all.

[Suirin]

Btw, there is a new developer's post at the (Japanese) beta tester's site that explains the whole system in minute detai. Talk about fast reaction ^.^/

Basically it's 8 hours per week @100% Skill increase, then dwindling to 0 in 10% increments during the following 7 hours. However, this is class-specific. So playing another class will give you a fresh 100% start for that class for 8 hours.

As pysical level is shared between classes, however, after 8 hours/week it's down the road no matter what.

And SE seems pretty adamant about that.

Which I, personally cheer them for. Some people simply have to be guided to get a life. Or play WoW. Or a Korean Grinder.

Of course, you CAN play longer without switching classes and you WILL get EXP. But by playing double the "normal" time for that class (16 hours) will net you only 150% of what a 8-hour-player gets.

The only thing SE did wrong was naming this a "fatigue/penalty" system. If they had stated that "for the first 8 hours every week, you'll get a 100% EXP bonus. Yay!" everybody would have been happy. Although technically this would be the same thing.

Psychology, psychology.

[xopher]

Uh, the way you made it sound in the second paragraph doesn't sound like it's bonus exp. It sounds like it's the actual exp rate going to 0%.

Basically it's 8 hours per week @100% Skill increase, then dwindling to 0 in 10% increments during the following 7 hours.

[Rothbardian]

Btw, there is a new developer's post at the (Japanese) beta tester's site that explains the whole system in minute detai. Talk about fast reaction ^.^/

Basically it's 8 hours per week @100% Skill increase, then dwindling to 0 in 10% increments during the following 7 hours. However, this is class-specific. So playing another class will give you a fresh 100% start for that class for 8 hours.

As pysical level is shared between classes, however, after 8 hours/week it's down the road no matter what.

And SE seems pretty adamant about that.

Which I, personally cheer them for. Some people simply have to be guided to get a life. Or play WoW. Or a Korean Grinder.

Of course, you CAN play longer without switching classes and you WILL get EXP. But by playing double the "normal" time for that class (16 hours) will net you only 150% of what a 8-hour-player gets.

The only thing SE did wrong was naming this a "fatigue/penalty" system. If they had stated that "for the first 8 hours every week, you'll get a 100% EXP bonus. Yay!" everybody would have been happy. Although technically this would be the same thing.

Psychology, psychology.

Yep some people need to be guided. Let's start with you. You will get a 80% XP nerf after 3 hours playing. I feel that you have no life, and thus, by limiting your play I will tell how you to live your life. Similarly, you shall not eat more than 1800 calories a day and I will ban butter, salt, soda, cheese, and other "un-healthy" food choices. I could go on, but you see what a ridiculous notion this is. Everyone likes to run everyone elses life, but they don't like their life being run...

This system is total trash, and will destroy FFXIV's possible playerbase. 8 hours a week is nothing. WoW casuals play more than 8 hours a week. The West isn't China, at least not yet, and we still enjoy our relative freedoms and autonomy. This isn't going to go over at all in the West.

[Suirin]

Oh, it will. With the vast majority of players that don't have more than 16 hours a week to "catch up" with the hardcore-hardys to be able to enjoy the "End-Game" content.

Btw, I don't agree with oversimplifications like: "A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state." - Isabel Paterson either. Most of all, a quote should be convincing by itself, and not just because some famous dead dude said it.

[Pooky]

Btw, there is a new developer's post at the (Japanese) beta tester's site that explains the whole system in minute detai. Talk about fast reaction ^.^/

Basically it's 8 hours per week @100% Skill increase, then dwindling to 0 in 10% increments during the following 7 hours. However, this is class-specific. So playing another class will give you a fresh 100% start for that class for 8 hours.

As pysical level is shared between classes, however, after 8 hours/week it's down the road no matter what.

And SE seems pretty adamant about that.

Which I, personally cheer them for. Some people simply have to be guided to get a life. Or play WoW. Or a Korean Grinder.

Of course, you CAN play longer without switching classes and you WILL get EXP. But by playing double the "normal" time for that class (16 hours) will net you only 150% of what a 8-hour-player gets.

The only thing SE did wrong was naming this a "fatigue/penalty" system. If they had stated that "for the first 8 hours every week, you'll get a 100% EXP bonus. Yay!" everybody would have been happy. Although technically this would be the same thing.

Psychology, psychology.

...That's fucking retarded.

I'm sorry, but there should be no fucking penalty for people who actually have time to play.

Edit: Wait its per WEEK? LOL. I can almost understand per day....but WEEK? Brb, canceling my pre-order. I'm not spending money on something only playable less than an hour or two a day.

[Acturus]

Yep some people need to be guided. Let's start with you. You will get a 80% XP nerf after 3 hours playing. I feel that you have no life, and thus, by limiting your play I will tell how you to live your life. Similarly, you shall not eat more than 1800 calories a day and I will ban butter, salt, soda, cheese, and other "un-healthy" food choices. I could go on, but you see what a ridiculous notion this is. Everyone likes to run everyone elses life, but they don't like their life being run...

This system is total trash, and will destroy FFXIV's possible playerbase. 8 hours a week is nothing. WoW casuals play more than 8 hours a week. The West isn't China, at least not yet, and we still enjoy our relative freedoms and autonomy. This isn't going to go over at all in the West.

8 hours a week on FFXIV allows players to play more FFXI!

EXACTRY!

[Suirin]

Well, the problem is not the people that have that time. The problem is that those people tend to "dominate" the whole game (economy and content-wise) to a degree that the fun remaining for the "less fortunate" takes a hit.

Think about it as a "8 hour bonus EXP". Just very unfortunate wording.

And btw, you are 100% free to play as long as you want. And even at 100% EXP. Just not on one class.

[Pooky]

Well, the problem is not the people that have that time. The problem is that those people tend to "dominate" the whole game (economy and content-wise) to a degree that the fun remaining for the "less fortunate" takes a hit.

So people who actually play the game, shouldn't "dominate" the game?

[Rothbardian]

Well, the problem is not the people that have that time. The problem is that those people tend to "dominate" the whole game (economy and content-wise) to a degree that the fun remaining for the "less fortunate" takes a hit.

Think about it as a "8 hour bonus EXP". Just very unfortunate wording.

And btw, you are 100% free to play as long as you want. And even at 100% EXP. Just not on one class.

I agree. We should also limit experts in the fields of science, medicine, and entrepreneurial endeavors to a maximum of 5 hours of study a week. Any more and they will be fined. Failure to pay the fine will result in imprisonment.

Suirin reminds me very much of INGSOC. It's natural for people who put in more time in any subject, activity, etc. to be more proficient than those who don't. What you do by de-incentivizing your playerbase from actually playing the game, results in a smaller playerbase. Whoever thought it was actually a healthy business proposal to punish your playerbase for actually playing your game is a fucking moron. I hope SE takes a huge hit in their pockets. Good riddance. I was really looking forward to playing XIV also, after having played FFXI for 5 years. Well thats at least 750$ SE won't see.

[Xeynaar]

They should have just worded it as 100% exp during the "fatigue" and +bonus exp during those 8 hours. This way it doesn't sound as a penalty.

[Elcura]

Well, the problem is not the people that have that time. The problem is that those people tend to "dominate" the whole game (economy and content-wise) to a degree that the fun remaining for the "less fortunate" takes a hit.

Think about it as a "8 hour bonus EXP". Just very unfortunate wording.

And btw, you are 100% free to play as long as you want. And even at 100% EXP. Just not on one class.

So... if you play one class for too long your exp will go down to just the normal rate (100%?) Where as if you switch classes, you'll get 200% for 8 hours which slowly goes down to 100%?

[Rothbardian]

So... if you play one class for too long your exp will go down to just the normal rate (100%?) Where as if you switch classes, you'll get 200% for 8 hours which slowly goes down to 100%?

No. You will actually go down to 0% EXP. You start at normal -- 100%, and go down until you reach 0%. That's right 0%. Suirin has no idea what he is talking about. Oh, and that 8 hours a week, is global for physical level, so if you play for ~15 hours a week you will eventually end up getting 0% EXP for your physical level. The game punishes you for actually playing it. SE trying to emulate China or what?

[omegaB]

so i dont understand this that well here. you hit 8 hours in one week, what happens now? you get 10% drop of exp for every hour after that? This is a poorly thought out system. So when im looking in bazaars im racking up fatigue on a job? do they mean 8 hours of combat? So now essentially, the key to leveling up fast is to just grind heavily for 8 hours, then switch jobs and do it again? equipping a job you never want to play while walking from place to place? Not using your favorite job for farming or exploration because your wasting exp time?

This isnt even logical, the implication would be that if you idle in town your exp slowly turns red? even if you never kill a mob? Well its explains the disperate results. Its a pretty poor execution of the system they want to put out there.

[Acturus]

Well, the problem is not the people that have that time. The problem is that those people tend to "dominate" the whole game (economy and content-wise) to a degree that the fun remaining for the "less fortunate" takes a hit.

Think about it as a "8 hour bonus EXP". Just very unfortunate wording.

And btw, you are 100% free to play as long as you want. And even at 100% EXP. Just not on one class.

It's not represented as an additional amount above what is normal. It's represented as normal. At best, that's bad design. And what's great about it is, if they don't scrap the system now, the playerbase will always view it as what it actually is, a tax on players who can play more.

God, it's like the MMO version of net neutrality. Penalize those that utilize the game more.

[Gokulo]

No. You will actually go down to 0% EXP. You start at normal -- 100%, and go down until you reach 0%. That's right 0%. Suirin has no idea what he is talking about. Oh, and that 8 hours a week, is global for physical level, so if you play for ~15 hours a week you will eventually end up getting 0% EXP for your physical level. The game punishes you for actually playing it. SE trying to emulate China or what?

You have no idea what you are talking about. It sounds just like an 8h bonus exp. And that would fit since it's called SURPLUS in game (look up in dictionary if you need). And btw. don't say how it worked in beta, because for all we know it could be borked as hell.

[SilverBreeze]

That's pretty ridiculous. I'm sorry but if I'm paying to play a game per month, I should be able to play as much as I want in that month, and not have any restrictions on it. If people want to play, they should be able to play what class they want, and not be pigeonholed into playing other classes just because of this. I feel really bad for the people who start out on the game, pick the class they want to play, and spend the first couple hours trying to figure out how the game works, then finally get playing and get slapped with this, it's silly.

All the MMOs these days getting casualized is ridiculous to be honest, people are going to play as much as they want, and putting a limit on how much they can "play" (and yes, this is doing exactly that) is going to make those players unsubscribe, and never play one of your games again, not think "Aww it's Surplus now, I'm going to go and clean out my attic or go get drunk with my friends" because people who would do those things, already do it, not because a video game kicks them in the balls to go make them do it.

I'm sorry but I work 60 hours most weeks, and I still have more than 8 hours a week to play video games. If you can look at me and say that this game is made for people like me who need to "get a life" when I work more in a week than most people do in two, then I seriously see a problem here.

[Rothbardian]

You have no idea what you are talking about. It sounds just like an 8h bonus exp. And that would fit since it's called SURPLUS in game (look up in dictionary if you need). And btw. don't say how it worked in beta, because for all we know it could be borked as hell.

We all know that the Patriot Act wasn't actually patriotic, and that most titles used are complete opposites of what it advocates. SE can't come out and name it Tax XP. We all know though, that is what the system is.

I suppose it's a "bonus" that you get more than 0% XP in SE's mind. However, a bonus implies a privilege beyond what is normal. 0% isn't exactly normal, is it? For example, let's take the universal notion of a Christmas bonus. Imagine now, instead that your boss said it is a bonus he is actually paying you a wage. You would think that is ridiculous right? Because it is.

Any system which punishes the player for playing your game is idiotic, period.

[Suirin]

@Gokulo
Err... actually he is right (though he doesn't seem to realize it was me who originally postet that information, haha!). For each job seperately, Skill increases will actually dwindle down to very, very low levels after 8 (or rather: 16) hours of fighting (bazaaring and stuff are ok it seems).

@Rothbart
They don't punish you for playing their game. They punish you for grinding it.