Tanaka blames foreign sites for rumors + XP Discussion

[miokomioko]

I feel like a ton of confusion/arguing is rooted in the lack of discerning specifically between physical exp and class skill (myself included). Some of us are talking about one, some the other, and some both.

I don't care about the physical level being stunted. I doubt my activities will result in me hitting the 0 exp/hr brick wall even as it stands. The specific class fatigue is a non-issue, even in Phase-3 Beta since refusing to work on other classes, gathering, or crafting means you're pretty retarded either way.

[Callisto]

This bothers me the most.

If you are out doing something other than exp and you are clearing trash mobs that still give you experience points then you are wasting your "1 hour a day" of exp for that class? If that's the case you will have many people refusing to do events simply because of this. It will pretty much bring the game down.

If you're just clearing out mobs that give like 30 xp/kill you shouldn't really be able to overshoot the xp/hr threshold to put you into surplus anyways, it should be a non-issue.

Edit: You'd also likely be the dongle who is level 15 and two-shotting Sewer Moles while a couple of level 3s are watching you wishing that they had some mobs to actually xp on, so maybe you'd want to not do that anyways, lol.

[BlackheartX]

Someone lock this shit already Jesus!!! sus!!!

[Kaiyoko]

I feel like a ton of confusion/arguing is rooted in the lack of discerning specifically between physical exp and class skill (myself included). Some of us are talking about one, some the other, and some both.

I don't care about the physical level being stunted. I doubt my activities will result in me hitting the 0 exp/hr brick wall even as it stands. The specific class fatigue is a non-issue, even in Phase-3 Beta since refusing to work on other classes, gathering, or crafting means you're pretty retarded either way.

In the process of leveling to rank 30 the physical never hit 0 exp. The lowest I remember seeing is 200 on a blue mob I was exping on. I normally was gaining at least 400+, don't see the issue :/. Even when the exp was red crafting was giving 1k a synth for physical... Don't think anyone will really hit it.

[omegaB]

If you're just clearing out mobs that give like 30 xp/kill you shouldn't really be able to overshoot the xp/hr threshold to put you into surplus anyways, it should be a non-issue.

Edit: You'd also likely be the dongle who is level 15 and two-shotting Sewer Moles while a couple of level 3s are watching you wishing that they had some mobs to actually xp on, so maybe you'd want to not do that anyways, lol.

what makes you think you ll be killing mobs that would give you 30 exp. you can farm decent challenge mobs, and storyline is quest related, should contain quest leveld mobs. In game quests would also probably mobs that would give you exp.
Point is after you hit threshold on regular exping, doing anything that gives exp stops you from recovering untill the one week timer supposedly. so, if you want to recover on your main, you dont use it at all. or possibly you dont do anything at all, depending on if they mean per class or anyclass, but you definately dont exp on your main.

fail system for people who want to enjoy the game casually. and do a breadth of dif types of content on one class

[Jamison]

Here's what you don't understand, it doesn't deplete. Once you hit the threshold, you have surplus for the rest of the week. Period. The AMOUNT of surplus you have depletes based on how long its been since your last gain. So if you take a break, you can go from having 100% surplus to 0% surplus.. but then as soon as you kill something again you're instantly back on the 0->100% slide until the week is over.

From what's been said, I don't believe this is the case:

In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.

"Threshold" is clearly referred to as both the 8 thresholds where you receive 100%, and the thresholds thereafter where you scale down to 0%. To say that the threshold resets completely, especially in reference to the one-week timer that is also a full reset, seems to make it clear that you could EXP for 8 hours, wait some time, then continue to EXP at 100%.

[Kaiyoko]

From what's been said, I don't believe this is the case:



"Threshold" is clearly referred to as both the 8 thresholds where you receive 100%, and the thresholds thereafter where you scale down to 0%. To say that the threshold resets completely, especially in reference to the one-week timer that is also a full reset, seems to make it clear that you could EXP for 8 hours, wait some time, then continue to EXP at 100%.

You gradually go through each threshold. Depending on how much you've recovered you may be on the edge of going back into the last threshold you were in. 90% rank is surplus and the 100% surplus might be the case why you would instantly go after 1 kill back to the other threshold.

[Izzy]

It also opens up the game to a more casual base. People (like me) won't feel alienated because they have to exp for 5+ hours a day to stay on par with others in the game.

I never understood statements like this.

How exactly does one person exping faster than you alienate you? Why do you need to stay on par with the more hardcore players? You exp at your own rate. Me getting to max level before you're half way there does not affect you in the slightest.

What people like you DO want, is to be able to hang with the big boys with little to no effort so you can walk around 3 years from now and say, "Hey remember when..." with everyone else.

[Meresgi]

you wont hit the cap at 1 hour, but you will hit the cap on the 7th day at 1 hour a day.

i know a person who just did leves, and they did it with 3 people, and they logged off, they had 10% surplus most of the time,

Apparently you missed the part where they said what happened in Beta 3 was not the system working right and people were ending up in surplus far faster then was intended? Also you know exactly how much xp is needed to cap out and you've graphed this? Damn you're fast.

Here's what you don't understand, it doesn't deplete. Once you hit the threshold, you have surplus for the rest of the week. Period. The AMOUNT of surplus you have depletes based on how long its been since your last gain. So if you take a break, you can go from having 100% surplus to 0% surplus.. but then as soon as you kill something again you're instantly back on the 0->100% slide until the week is over.

What are you basing this off of? From what I have read there is a certain threshold before you gain negative effects, that threshold can slowly lower itself if you occupy your time on other things or go afk, and will begin to climb again as you engage monsters and kill them. Basically you're speculating it will work how you think it will, and I am speculating how I think it will work from what I have read...we're probably both wrong from what we will see upon release.

I never understood statements like this.
How exactly does one person exping faster than you alienate you? Why do you need to stay on par with the more hardcore players? You exp at your own rate. Me getting to max level before you're half way there does not affect you in the slightest.
What people like you DO want, is to be able to hang with the big boys with little to no effort so you can walk around 3 years from now and say, "Hey remember when..." with everyone else.

Being a hardcore player and being hardcore about leveling are two different things in my book. If you're hardcore in end game, have great gear you've worked for and things you have accomplished, then no, no one should just be handed that same shit (hello wotlk and all that debate) but there's nothing "hardcore" about leveling in a MMO. It's all just about time, everyone gets to the end at some point no matter how little/much time they put in. It's not about "hanging with the big boys", do you think someone is hot shit for hitting max level faster then the next person? It also doesnt alienate anyone so thinking that as well is foolish. If anything the system just basically means that the person with 80hrs a week and the person with 60hrs a week and the person with 40hrs a week will all arrive at level cap at about the same time. It will create more of an opportunity for people to do things (since being 1 of 10 ppl at level cap means you don't have many options of things to do)....and here's the big thing

It gives Square the TIME to make some content for an expansion or patch! Instead of just rushing something out.

People get to level cap > Complain there's nothing left to do
People get to level cap and there is stuff to do > people complain about bugs still in the game the devs havnt taken the time to fix
People get to level cap and there's stuff to do > they complain that the stuff isnt coming fast enough.

[omegaB]

Apparently you missed the part where they said what happened in Beta 3 was not the system working right and people were ending up in surplus far faster then was intended? Also you know exactly how much xp is needed to cap out and you've graphed this? Damn you're fast.

uhhh they fixed those issues in the first week, it shouldnt have effected the second week.
the amount of exp to cap as graphed is irrelevant, they have told you its based on thier expectaions of average exp per hour. people who do better will hit it faster. the more the incentive party play exp has, the faster you hit cap and break up party.

simple math
Exp till cap = average exp we determine a person to get exping in an hour.
x8 for normal +7x for surplus.

if you figure out how to get exp twice as fast, you get to cap in half the time.

In Xi terms in beginning average exp was 4-5k an hour, then they figured out king ranps and monk pts and bards and got 9-10k an hour. dif is in this game, you basically have to stop even if you get more efficient

understanding math you know the average exp, or projected value is not the ideal, its not the most exp you can get per hour, this is where they messed up in beginning of the beta. the optimal exp was way higher than they realized. the solution, they nerfed exp gains. they reduced the bonus on guild leves, and they reduced how well you can exp off lower level mobs,

they effectively reduced how much exp most people could gain and made the game more grindy, so as to protect the surplus. that was thier actual solution, it tells you a bit how they plan to balance surplus in the future doesnt it

[miokomioko]

If anything, hardcore players help the casual players through rapid exploration, thorough testing, "amazing discoveries," and especially through equipment acquisition and progress, flooding the market with their old shit.

[Meresgi]

uhhh they fixed those issues in the first week, it shouldnt have effected the second week.
the amount of exp to cap as graphed is irrelevant, they have told you its based on thier expectaions of average exp per hour. people who do better will hit it faster. the more the incentive party play exp has, the faster you hit cap and break up party.
simple math
Exp till cap = average exp we determine a person to get exping in an hour.
x8 for normal +7x for surplus.
if you figure out how to get exp twice as fast, you get to cap in half the time.
In Xi terms in beginning average exp was 4-5k an hour, then they figured out king ranps and monk pts and bards and got 9-10k an hour. dif is in this game, you basically have to stop even if you get more efficient
understanding math you know the average exp, or projected value is not the ideal, its not the most exp you can get per hour, this is where they messed up in beginning of the beta. the optimal exp was way higher than they realized. the solution, they nerfed exp gains. they reduced the bonus on guild leves, and they reduced how well you can exp off lower level mobs,
they effectively reduced how much exp most people could gain and made the game more grindy, so as to protect the surplus. that was thier actual solution, it tells you a bit how they plan to balance surplus in the future doesnt it

Soooooo take the ability to maximize your xp, swap classes to maximize your group and class potential, and take a break at some times. They said there were issues where some mobs would give more xp then other mobs of the same nature. Saying an MMO is "grindy" is like saying water is "moist". At least there are options other then solo grinding, you can spice it up with group or solo leves, group xping and such.

We still have no idea what the standard is for how much xp you can gain BEFORE the surplus beings to kick in, and how long they might make it before you can gradually recede that surplus meter.

[omegaB]

Soooooo take the ability to maximize your xp, swap classes to maximize your group and class potential, and take a break at some times. They said there were issues where some mobs would give more xp then other mobs of the same nature. Saying an MMO is "grindy" is like saying water is "moist". At least there are options other then solo grinding, you can spice it up with group or solo leves, group xping and such.

We still have no idea what the standard is for how much xp you can gain BEFORE the surplus beings to kick in, and how long they might make it before you can gradually recede that surplus meter.

my beef isnt that this system doesnt benefit hardcore, i know it does. My beef is that it makes the game more unfun for casuals. and makes it feel restrictive, and it does nothing in anyway to help the game. only hinder it

Fas as the, they need time to fix problems and people hitting endgame. I really dont think that limiting a persons progress on a class they like, and providing little incentive for doing it efficiently is going to make them play the game longer. And, it is from all indications going to lose them way more players than they gain.

the reason why is because it is a bad system, it sounds bad, its hard to sell to other people. it doesnt actually help the game. your negatively reinforcing what you say the main draw of the game is. people are going to form a negative association with exp, and you basically are saying they have to do that so because they have nothing else to do.

People will notice they have nothing to do a lot faster if you dont let them exp.

the whole thinking is way off, if you dont have much to do in your game besides exp, you shouldnt attach negatives to exping. i now wish i could do something on my chosen class without gaining exp... but thats endgame content, instead of missing it a month from now, ill miss it everytime i hit surplus, which will prolly be in 2 days

[Ghostsix.Midgard]

The only somewhat contradicting thing from Square-Enix is the quote:

"Players may opt to specialize in one discipline, excelling in a single skill, or they may take a more general approach, making free use of the Armoury. The choice is yours."

While the choice is yours, its not going to benefit you as much as making use of your time to diversify between exping/looting/crafting/repairing... so it's not exactly false.

"The entire experience is crafted to accommodate the widest variety of play styles—from the lone mercenary with only moments a day to spare, to the legion of comrades campaigning for days on end, and every combination in between."
lol

The best thing I remember from my FFXI time is a 36-hour-EXP-marathon in Kuftal/Cape Terrigan - and I want to do something like that again :<

Seriously, everyone remembers those epic marathon sessions when trying to get a sub over with or trying to catch up to someone. Some of my best memories in XI~

[Furoris]

The biggest issue I see in the system, is that once you hit cap and you go to do the other things there is to do, if they give xp then whatever that xp is will prevent you from reseting fatigue. IE you go do mining or craft specifically to make gil etc, you get 1~2 XP from it regardless, and you reset the rest timer or at least make it even longer before you can go back to exping.

In order to implement a system to avoid this, they would need scaling for the fatigue reset which just further increases the complexity of an already overly complex system. And the more complex it is the more likely they will fuck a part of it up and ruin the whole thing.

[Lucavi]

Seriously, everyone remembers those epic marathon sessions when trying to get a sub over with or trying to catch up to someone. Some of my best memories in XI~

Absolutely. Its like I said earlier: a grind isn't a "grind" if everyone is having a lot of fun. Then its just a fucking awesome XP session. People keep talking about grinds like every grind is the same, but they aren't. If I'm having fun doing something, I don't care about how much I need to do it to hit the next level - doing it in of itself is just as fun as dinging to the next level, ESPECIALLY in a system that lets you use whatever level gear and item you want. It's not like FFXI where you were rushing to hit that next even level so you could equip your next piece of AF (WAAAAAY back in the day, when Drachen Mail was actually somewhat cool).

[Katlan]

Can't wait for all the defenders to get to like 44 and realize it takes over 8hrs of efficient xp to get to the next lv. So SE will be laughing at everyone when they can only get 1 lv a week

SE: working as intended

[Lucavi]

I could care less, so long as I can get jump within a reasonable amount of time, and some heavy armor. Despite my grumblings, I'm not too hard to please - give me a strong Dragoon-esque job in a game and I'm happy.

[Callisto]

Can't wait for all the defenders to get to like 44 and realize it takes over 8hrs of efficient xp to get to the next lv. So SE will be laughing at everyone when they can only get 1 lv a week

SE: working as intended

ugh crap I might have to craft and make easy money instead for a bit this game sucks

[Battlecat]

My biggest problem with the system is that it seems to encourage casuals to only level a single class all the way to cap. Which, based on the entire theme of the game and what we've seen so far, is pretty gimp. It's like telling people in XI to level PLD 1-75 and THEN go level WAR 1-37, which just doesn't make any gd sense whatsoever. With a few smart tweaks, however, the surplus system really wouldn't be all that limiting though. If they made it so the cap scaled with tnl, and fixed the physical xp part of it, system would be fine imo. Giving a lvl 5 guy and a lvl 40 guy the same exact limit is just plain retarded though. With a few fixes the worst it would do is force us to go level our "subjobs" or craft more often then we probably would have previous to hitting cap on our first combat class. It'll do nothing but force us to be better equipped (ability and monetarily speaking) than the casuals.