1. You are currently viewing a section that predates the release of FFXIV:ARR and the information you see here is most likely outdated and/or useless.
  1. FFXIV Reset Timers
    Last daily reset was 2 hours, 20 minutes ago / Next daily reset is in 21 hours, 39 minutes
    Last weekly reset was 4 days, 19 hours, 20 minutes ago / Next weekly reset is in 1 days, 14 hours, 39 minutes
Closed Thread
Page 1 of 16 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 306
  1. #1

    Komoto's Official Explanation of Surplus

    I know there's a thread that says don't do this, but I've completed a translation of Komoto's comments on the JP beta site. If you want to be super cool and click over to ZAM you can, but this is about setting the record straight!

    It's not a time-based system, but rather a limitation based on the rate at which a player might be expected to gain XP.

    In other words,

    Let's say Sephicloud Tifaerith can make X amount of skill points an hour fighting Dodos.

    Everyone earns 100% skill points while playing at this established normal pace.

    However, under the Surplus system, earning **8 hours worth** of this assumed rate -- or 8 times X -- is where (under the current settings) your rate begins to decline.

    That's why people have had it proc at different times, some faster than others.

    Anyway, here's the full translation!

    We'd like to thank all the beta testers for their cooperation during the closed beta test. We have received your valuable opinions and feedback and will do our best to incorporate them into the open beta and official release versions of the game.

    Now, we have received a lot of questions and opinions from everyone today, and we would like to give you some answers regarding character growth balance in beta phase 3.

    First, the concept was to achieve a balance which would allow those with little time to enjoy FFXIV to get more out of their play time, and above that, create a game that does not force you to spend long hours playing it. To that end, we implemented Guardian's Favor, which adds a bonus to Guildleve, and makes it easier to level in shorter amounts of time.

    To balance this out, we came up with a hypothesis regarding what amount of skill points and experience one was likely to earn in an hour. Think of this as a rate at which a player can fight battles, do Guildleves or skill-up.

    Then, using that supposed amount, we made it so you can earn 8 hours worth of skill points and experience at 100% of this rate. The subsequent 7 hours' worth will gradually see the attainable skill points and experience points fall to 0.

    The limitation on thee amount of points you can attain is set on a weekly timer. Once it passes a week since you first began leveling a particular skill, the limitation resets to zero. After it resets, it will come into effect again once you begin work on that skill once more.

    Even if you are hit with this limitation during a one-week period, its detrimental effects decrease if you do not level that particular class. You can even recover back to the full 100% rate of point acquisition, so you do not always have to wait the full week for the limitations to go away.

    The skill points you do not gain are instead saved as Surplus Points. Each class has its own amount surplus points, so you can try out a new class if surplus points begin appearing in your log window.

    However, each class does not have its own amount of experience, so playing a different class will not mitigate the declining experience point rate.

    This is the system as currently implemented.

    In truth, this system was not just put in during phase 3 of the beta, but has been implemented from the start. However, we have received many opinions saying the system explained above is not what actually appears in phase 3 of the beta. There are several reasons for this.

    Around the time of beta phase 3, it became possible to play for longer periods of time, thus increasing the amount one could play in a single week.
    In beta phase 3, Guildleves received a boost in skill points and experience points awarded to encourage party play.
    The skill points and experience gained from defeating enemy parties as well as weaker single enemies was lowered, though due to a bug, did not take affect initially in beta phase 3. This was fixed during beta phase 3.
    The number biggest culprit behind this issue was that last bug, which allowed players to gain more skill points and experience than we expected, causing the limitations to come into effect much quicker. Of course, not adjusting the limitations in accordance with the boost to Guildleve was a problem as well.

    The lack of explanation regarding these adjustments was a mistake on our part for which we sincerely apologize.

    The numbers behind these limitations are all still under development, and we plan to adjust them according to player feedback in an effort to make them less severe. In particular, we are considering making the decline in points less drastic and are already hard at work on it. Also, as the limit on experience carries over through class changes, we plan to lessen its effect compared with the limit on skill points.

    At the very least, we promise players will not be hitting the limit as quickly as they did at the start of beta phase 3.

    Also, I would like to address one other thing below:

    The reduction in what you acquire from gathering is based on the actions of that particular class and is unrelated to limitations on leveling. We are also in the process of adjusting this and plan to make changes based on player feedback.

    Surplus points currently have no use. However, there are opinions saying preparing some kind of reward would be good, but that's just giving people something else to strive for, which misses the whole point of this system. We want to take our time and thoroughly investigate this issue.

    Now, the open beta test will include more than just the above adjustments. As we stated before, awarding more skill points for party play is also an important topic we plan to address, so we hope you enjoy testing out what we come up with.

    Lastly, as director of this title, I wish to deeply apologize for the lateness of my comments due to my absence while attending Gamescom. In addition, articles written during my trip contained much speculation, outdated information and mistranslations which only invited more confusion. In the future, I will do my best to make direct, official statements in a timely manner. I humbly ask for your understanding regarding this matter.

    See you in the open beta!

    Final Fantasy XIV Director

    Nobuaki Komoto
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  2. #2
    You just got served THE CALLISTO SPECIAL
    SASSAGE KING OF DA WORLD
    cheap hawks gay

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    26,424
    BG Level
    10

    Thanks Elmer.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  3. #3

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    5,890
    BG Level
    8
    FFXI Server
    Ragnarok

    But.. what determines that 1000 is the standard rate? If its merely your first hour of play, then its no different than what everyone is bitching about and might as well be time based.

    I'd say inb4 lock, but its Elmer! <3
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  4. #4

    Changed 1,000 to variable X before I cause my own shitstorm :X
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  5. #5

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    5,890
    BG Level
    8
    FFXI Server
    Ragnarok

    So same deal then. I'm more curious to know how the Japanese thread looks. Are they as negative about it as everybody else? Really hoping its just so overwhelming they have no choice but to remove it.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  6. #6
    Yoshi P
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    5,161
    BG Level
    8
    FFXI Server
    Quetzalcoatl

    I disagree with the name "Sephicloud Tifaerith". Its a horrible name and you should feel horrible.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  7. #7
    You just got served THE CALLISTO SPECIAL
    SASSAGE KING OF DA WORLD
    cheap hawks gay

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    26,424
    BG Level
    10

    I'm pretty curious how they came up with their XP/hr number. Elmer was this something that you(or someone else) translated that was originally in JP? They use the term 'hypothesis' but then seemed to be surprised by how much actual players were able to gain, I'm wondering if they tried to just stick a few numbers in a formula rather than just having someone on their end find a cozy spot with a bunch of monsters, go nuts for an hour, and see how much came of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzor View Post
    I disagree with the name "Sephicloud Tifaerith". Its a horrible name and you should feel horrible.
    Pretty sure there actually was one of those on Emperor, probably on at least two other servers too.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  8. #8
    Relic Weapons
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    395
    BG Level
    4
    FFXI Server
    Asura
    WoW Realm
    Shadowsong

    This certainly points to surplus hitting after a certain amount of xp.

    But what about the reports of people sitting around idling coming back to their pc after several hours to find themselves suddenly in "the yellow" when they weren't before? Are they lying? Are they just trying to get the system removed? Or are there more bugs than actual system in this system at the moment?
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  9. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by Callisto View Post
    I'm pretty curious how they came up with their XP/hr number. Elmer was this something that you(or someone else) translated that was originally in JP? They use the term 'hypothesis' but then seemed to be surprised by how much actual players were able to gain, I'm wondering if they tried to just stick a few numbers in a formula rather than just having someone on their end find a cozy spot with a bunch of monsters, go nuts for an hour, and see how much came of it.
    I wrote this translation based on the announcement on the JP Beta site from Komoto himself.

    They call it the 想定取得量 or "hypothesized acquisition amount" to put it super literally.

    The reason players were earning much more than they anticipated was because Guildleve rewards had been boosted and points gained from certain mobs had not been reduced due to a bug.

    There was an influx of points while the limitation remained the same, which caused people to reach that limit too quickly, thus making the system seem much harsher than intended.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  10. #10
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,569
    BG Level
    6

    Quote Originally Posted by Celeras View Post
    So same deal then. I'm more curious to know how the Japanese thread looks. Are they as negative about it as everybody else? Really hoping its just so overwhelming they have no choice but to remove it.
    according to those JP beta account holder, they were raging after the sankaku rumors along with the tanaka QQing. After that the official thread appear, and the flame keep going on.

    However, some people thinks the SE will definitely be a dick head that won't listen from the peer review.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  11. #11
    Vuitton
    Guest

    So in other words everyone is freaking out for no reason because what was experienced during beta 3 was an unintentionally harsh version of what they wanted and they're working to make what they did want less harsh.

    I am glad I didn't cancel my pre-order in a nerd rage fit like many others who hyperventilated at their keyboards in a tantrum.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  12. #12

    It does seem kind of silly though why would one think it's actually normal to level up multiple levels with ease in less than an hour. The feeling of getting something accomplished fast does feel nice however when it does appear to be an accidental glitch you have to accept the fact that you're in beta and what you are playing or doing are not working as they intended it to.

    I'm curious to see how the next phase of beta will evolve and hopefully the balance with xp gains will be enough so that people don't see surplus as harsh as a system as it has sounded.

    On another good note while many had thought that the natural decay of surplus wouldn't wear off overtime, they should have a slight sigh of relief to know that even if they did hit the cap 2-3 days into the week if they don't work on that class for a day or two they'll be able to gain skill again with little to no surplus.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  13. #13
    Cake Bitch
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    30,038
    BG Level
    10
    FFXIV Character
    Cakey Yama
    FFXIV Server
    Leviathan
    FFXI Server
    Unicorn

    Awesome work as always, Pointy Elmer.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  14. #14
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,974
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Leviathan

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmer the Pointy View Post
    The reason players were earning much more than they anticipated was because Guildleve rewards had been boosted and points gained from certain mobs had not been reduced due to a bug.

    There was an influx of points while the limitation remained the same, which caused people to reach that limit too quickly, thus making the system seem much harsher than intended.
    I must be interpreting this wrong. If your hourly average is high then your 8 hour maximum should be high as well. How does that make you hit a multiple of your average faster?
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  15. #15
    Puppetmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    53
    BG Level
    2
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    So if you can.. Just to clarify.. for me. Cause news of this is hitting various websites..

    Some are saying 8 hours per class/weapon while others are saying 8 hours across all classes. What I'm reading from your translation is the latter. 8 hours across all classes.

    Thank you.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  16. #16
    You just got served THE CALLISTO SPECIAL
    SASSAGE KING OF DA WORLD
    cheap hawks gay

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    26,424
    BG Level
    10

    Quote Originally Posted by Cjskater View Post
    I must be interpreting this wrong. If your hourly average is high then your 8 hour maximum should be high as well. How does that make you hit a multiple of your average faster?
    You misread, its' not based on your hourly average, it's based on what they as devs hypothesized would be a normal XP/hr rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeikenFreak View Post
    So if you can.. Just to clarify.. for me. Cause news of this is hitting various websites..

    Some are saying 8 hours per class/weapon while others are saying 8 hours across all classes. What I'm reading from your translation is the latter. 8 hours across all classes.

    Thank you.
    It's 8 per class/weapon. 8 across all classes meaning that all classes are at 8 hours, not some of them having higher or lower time frames.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  17. #17
    Cerberus
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    413
    BG Level
    4
    FFXI Server
    Gilgamesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuitton View Post
    So in other words everyone is freaking out for no reason because what was experienced during beta 3 was an unintentionally harsh version of what they wanted and they're working to make what they did want less harsh.

    I am glad I didn't cancel my pre-order in a nerd rage fit like many others who hyperventilated at their keyboards in a tantrum.
    Yeah I'm more relaxed about the official explanation and I was furious when I first heard about it. Basically all the QQing we had in beta was due to a bug and unadujusted formula for increased EXP gain and because they didn't communicate their intentions properly, it was left to seem like it some horrible system intently designed to punish hardcore people when its actually a system designed to flat line EXP/Hour gain. If you don't utilize all the systems potential (Guardian Fervor, Guild Leve Group EXP bonus etc.) and just straight grind mobs. The game's system is 'supposed' to work where you don't get surplus for a long time if at all. But if you do utilize those systems, you will likely see surplus happen fairly quickly as its supposed to mitigate abuse of the quick EXP system designed entirely for casuals.

    Furthmore we can also confirm its not something that simply 'resets' only on week intervals, it does actually go down when people don't use the class which puts a bit better perspective in the "If you see surplus, you should probably level something else for a bit" thing. Basically you level something else with your time and before you know it your previous jobs surplus will be gone. Still a pretty crappy game mechanic but its not really that bad and just needs to be properly adjusted.

    In the end though it was their fault for not explaining it properly till now (which he apologizes for). But now that the rightful intention is explained I feel better about it (I still don't like it, but I feel better about it none the less).
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  18. #18

    It's 8 times a constant value, which SE determined. Not 8 times your own individual hourly average.

    Classes are all separate in their timers, however since physical exp is shared between all classes, it always gets the penalty (but will most likely be changed).
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  19. #19
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,974
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Leviathan

    Quote Originally Posted by Callisto View Post
    You misread, its' not based on your hourly average, it's based on what they as devs hypothesized would be a normal XP/hr rate.
    Ah, I like my version better in that case.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  20. #20
    Puppetmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    53
    BG Level
    2
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    Ah wow Callisto ty. I didn't even think to read it like that.

    Not so bad then.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 16 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
  • Insert NSFW Tag
  • Insert Spoiler Tag