Komoto's Official Explanation of Surplus

[Hyan]

if the main goal is not vertical growth, then hitting the cap will not cause it to lose players.
if the main goal was horizontal they would be punishing casual players who cant level multiple jobs which is supposedly not what they want to do.

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/08/2...tem/#more-4948

This system makes A) leveling multiple classes easier (helping casuals) and B) stops players from multitasking (leveling+endgame), making the game last longer (helping SE not to lose players).

[omegaB]

leveling multiple classes is not easier for casuals. because they define casuals as not having time. if the game needs multiple classes to be effiecient or fun. casuals will lose out.

I dont see how stopping players from being at endgame and leveling makes it last longer, but whateva

also as an aside the grind aint going anywhere. looking at the current exp curve leveling is still the same parabolic curve we ve always dealt with. you guys are looking at level 20 not taking a lot of grind to get to? uhhh do the math

most people who grinded were able to get 20 in about two days
yet not so many were able to get 30 in the remaining time, all those who did basically grinded.
how long does it take to get 20 in ffxi? 1 day?
30? 3 days? a week?
cap in ffxi was 75
they said they can go up to 99 in this game
around the level of 35 with this trend, you wont be able to get 1 level in a week
45 it might take you two weeks?

level 25 was about 30000 exp tnl i think.... assuming 6k an hour is the base exp per hour they thought you should have, thats 5 hours at level 25 to get next level.

in ffxi level 75 itself the last level was what 44k exp? and a good party was what 9k an hour?

say hello to grind, say hello to taking 2 weeks to level by the time your 50, wow thats lame.

at the very least with this system they should have used a straight line for the exp curve instead of a parabola.

[Hyan]

That sounds like an alright pace to solo.

Certainly much better than in FFXI.

And whoever is still thinking this isn't a grouping game, think again.

These are not the only adjustments we have planned for Open Beta. As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party, and we look forward to seeing your input on these changes.

They have just been failing at it since Alpha.

[Lucavi]

The problem with their marketing is it's pretty much HI GAIZ THIS IS A FINAL FANTASY GAME, WANNA PLAY? It works in Japan, but it doesn't work outside of Japan.

Dragon Quest does the same thing, and that series is even more simplistic and even MORE successful than FF! Its no wonder why both companies merged: they now corner the market in stagnation.

I could only imagine a DQ MMO. Ye gods, the grinding on slimes and retrekking through caves.

Seriously though: I got the 2 things I wanted, so my CE is confirmed and will not be returned. As for how long I'll actually stick with the game, I can't say. There are a metric ton of excellent games on the horizon, so the freedom to dance between games will be higher than ever.

[Meresgi]

Most "hardcore" levelers come from games where you had a single class you grinded to max level. It's bred into their system at this point and people view it the same with FFXIV but it isn't. This is their way of trying to stunt that mentality and say "Hey guy, there's more to this game then just grinding out a single class, and you need to do it". On the flipside if it wasn't there you might have people grinding all the way up to max level then turning around and complaining about having to now level up other classes for skills. "I hit max level, why should I need to do any more leveling?".

[Hyan]

This is their way of trying to stunt that mentality and say "Hey guy, there's more to this game then just grinding out a single class, and you need to do it".

No, FF is stagnant. They are not trying to do anything differently.

You clearly missed the memo. Fight, magic, item, run.

FFffuuuckk, bullshit zone is approaching! Get off the train before it's too late!

[Lucavi]

^ And lancers will get a 20% run speed buff trait to better help my punk ass flee when the going gets tough!

God I love Lancer. Sitting on chairs, Jumping on people/chairs, and now running 20% faster than the next chump.

[omegaB]

well this system sucks, its probably gonna be there, but i just think yall are fooling yourself thinking that this reduces the grind, this just drags it out

http://viion.co.uk/upload/files/expchart.png

not my chart dude had it on the beta site Premium to give credit.

check that, its a curve, so that means the higher we get the more exp were going to need exponetially. however, the exp per week is as far as they have said, static and universal so you will be grinding, for a long long time at 50
50-99 whoooo.

[Hyan]

check that, its a curve, so that means the higher we get the more exp were going to need exponetially. however, the exp per week is as far as they have said, static and universal so you will be grinding, for a long long time at 50

How do you explain that it goes up to 50, lol

[omegaB]

probably an interpolation based on the curve up until 30, if it stays at the same curve thats how it will look.

[Hyan]

Sounds very convincing.

[Meresgi]

well this system sucks, its probably gonna be there, but i just think yall are fooling yourself thinking that this reduces the grind, this just drags it out

http://viion.co.uk/upload/files/expchart.png

not my chart dude had it on the beta site Premium to give credit.

check that, its a curve, so that means the higher we get the more exp were going to need exponetially. however, the exp per week is as far as they have said, static and universal so you will be grinding, for a long long time at 50
50-99 whoooo.

50k xp difference between 47 and 50 isnt that big of a deal. Aion was like, what? 15million or more? Also does the chart show how much more monsters in their lvl 40's might be giving or is it assuming they stay on a steady ratio all the way up?

Also it would make no sense to have the xp curve static, and it's probably a given % of the whole xp needed. It would be beyond stupid to have a cap of like 20k xp for a week for when you need 25k to lvl and when you need 150k to lvl.

[Hyan]

Also does the chart show how much more monsters in their lvl 40's might be giving or is it assuming they stay on a steady ratio all the way up?

All that would do is make you hit the fatigue faster.. doesn't make much sense to do it that way.

Now you can get to level 14 or so before you hit the 9th threshold. It makes perfect sense that things would slow down.

And still, lolchart.

Also, if Anthonystar's theory is right, the effect will weaken as it levels up.

What I would be more concerned is the past-50 exp ratio. That's when things started getting more grindy in XI at least, and that's where we'll probably see the biggest difference over time if they decide to keep this system all the way.

[Kaiyoko]

leveling multiple classes is not easier for casuals. because they define casuals as not having time. if the game needs multiple classes to be effiecient or fun. casuals will lose out.

I dont see how stopping players from being at endgame and leveling makes it last longer, but whateva

also as an aside the grind aint going anywhere. looking at the current exp curve leveling is still the same parabolic curve we ve always dealt with. you guys are looking at level 20 not taking a lot of grind to get to? uhhh do the math

most people who grinded were able to get 20 in about two days
yet not so many were able to get 30 in the remaining time, all those who did basically grinded.
how long does it take to get 20 in ffxi? 1 day?
30? 3 days? a week?
cap in ffxi was 75
they said they can go up to 99 in this game
around the level of 35 with this trend, you wont be able to get 1 level in a week
45 it might take you two weeks?

level 25 was about 30000 exp tnl i think.... assuming 6k an hour is the base exp per hour they thought you should have, thats 5 hours at level 25 to get next level.

in ffxi level 75 itself the last level was what 44k exp? and a good party was what 9k an hour?

say hello to grind, say hello to taking 2 weeks to level by the time your 50, wow thats lame.

at the very least with this system they should have used a straight line for the exp curve instead of a parabola.

6k is low, I'd say 45k is more accurate at least for me... Grinding on fat dodo's that level gave me 400~600 skill a kill even with 10% surplus. Took 20 seconds to kill one, pends wiffs, with about a 10~20sec downtime.

Saying an average kill is 500 skill, 40 seconds per kill nets 90 kills in an hour. That's 45k >_>, maybe you guys are just doing it wrong... Like I said I never had problems leveling. Also leves in BS solo give me about 600+ per kill, and the one with the Hyre bandits give 1.2k+ a kill.

[Kurokikaze]

Well we wont see 50+ gameplay for a while. Probably first or second giant version update for FFXIV post release will up the cap? :/

Star you gonna be on Emp again? I'll be there but in Ul'dah. Gonna run tests on surplus.

[omegaB]

your hope that they would not continue the same curve is nice, but theres no reason to believe they wouldnt. If they were going to ease the curve you probably would have saw it between 25 and 30 which we do have the data for.

not only that but the amount of actual content is based on time, and level. so far story missions are every 10 levels, new leves are every 10 levels. only 8 guild leves per week so you will actually have a lot less actual new content to do and a lot more time to be at a certain level. you will basically be grinding.

your amount of exp per week stays the same, and your amount of exp tnl goes up, the amount of new things you can do in a given time frame goes down.

in ffxi the saving grace of the exp curve was generally, with new skills and abilities, you began to level at least a little faster per level as went on. but in this system effeciency is useless past a certain point because your exp is at a fixed rate per week.

[Hyan]

your hope that they would not continue the same curve is nice, but theres no reason to believe they wouldnt. If they were going to ease the curve you probably would have saw it between 25 and 30 which we do have the data for.

Doesn't sound like it takes more than hour to level 25+. Solo.

Also, no reason to believe they wouldn't?

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/08/2...atigue-system/

Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play.

You just don't want to accept it. It all comes together.

[Kaiyoko]

Well we wont see 50+ gameplay for a while. Probably first or second giant version update for FFXIV post release will up the cap? :/

Star you gonna be on Emp again? I'll be there but in Ul'dah. Gonna run tests on surplus.

Yeah, I plan on ul'dah 1st too. Get lvl 10 then switch gridania then switch back to get 20. Need to figure out where I wanna start on release.

[omegaB]

Doesn't sound like it takes more than hour to level 25+. Solo.

Also, no reason to believe they wouldn't?

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2010/08/2...atigue-system/



You just don't want to accept it. It all comes together.

ehhh the data is there it took him two weeks to hit 30, but he could get 25 in an hour? if that is true, then there is a huge curve on that over the course of the next 12 days.

at this point i can only say we ll see, and a pre emptive i told you so

if im wrong ill give you credit for believing in SE not to make a stupid and obvious screw ups.
im just goin off history

[Hyan]

i dont think anyone hit 25 in an hour. i certainly didnt, even with hax guild leve exp. even gulkeeva who was beast took some hours to hit

I dunno if Anthonystar is a dirty liar or what, but I wouldn't want to believe so.