Komoto's Official Explanation of Surplus

[omegaB]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't this fatigue system also hurt friends wanting to play together, but start at different periods? For example lets say one of my friends gets to plays the game on PC release and I don't play til PS3 release. With the fatigue system wouldn't it make it hard/impossible for me to party with them unless they take time off their main classes?

no one will ever catch up to anyone else who uses thier time effiecently with current system, even if they put in more hours, unless they wait for you. which is unlikely because then they wont be able to catch up with people they played with. but they might save a secondary job for you.

[Ae Cha]

The 4chan site is the height of rationality.

Hey dudes, I was just looking through PrisonPlanet, and none of them seem to think the government is anything but reptilians either- except for a few white knights!

2ch is one of the largest forums in Japan. It's not some kind of fringe website solely populated by freaks. It is pretty mainstream.

[supercoco]

I'm sorry, but this system is fucking retard.

Who doesn't remember old ranger parties before rng nerf , for example , where we could gain a lot of exp .
Something closer would be the lovely colibri parties .

If i want to play a lot of hours non stop with an average/good party , why should i stop leveling my XXX class , if we reached the limit very fast and now the exp sucks?

Why should they force me to change my class , if i'm interested in playing X class and not Y class?

Isn't that hard to give casual players rested exp and let the ppl with more time to play all they want without penalities.

[Hyan]

Isn't that hard to give casual players rested exp and let the ppl with more time to play all they want without penalities.

It's not hard indeed- but is that any better?

You're basically saying "They should just quit supporting PS2 because I play on PC" on FFXI terms.

Good luck convincing them with that logic...

I would like if surplus points were used for something, but I don't know what it could be. If it's too good of a bonus, those who can't hit surplus are fucked.

Imagine that with this system you almost cap every job with enough time, and then they add some new jobs, to what you will be switching then !? D:

To me it sounds like a system that will be removed somewhere down the line...

But again, if they implement a bonus to it, it might be harder to get rid of it later.

[miokomioko]

It's a different game.

[fussel]

With the fatigue system wouldn't it make it hard/impossible for me to party with them unless they take time off their main classes?

Uhm, fatigue/surplus isn't cross-class.

[omegaB]

It's not hard indeed- but is that any better?

You're basically saying "They should just quit supporting PS2 because I play on PC" on FFXI terms.

Good luck convincing them with that logic...

I would like if surplus points were used for something, but I don't know what it could be. If it's too good of a bonus, those who can't hit surplus are fucked.



To me it sounds like a system that will be removed somewhere down the line.

just let people hit the cap no need to change exp, if your games good people will keep playing as in every other mmo

[Hyan]

just let people hit the cap no need to change exp, if your games good people will keep playing as in every other mmo

That would be nice, but I don't see it as a realistic option.

I've yet to see an MMO with "enough" content initially.

All the people here with the "I'll be the pioneer of this game" mentality are also the first ones to quit...

[zoopooscooper]

Sorry, on iPhone at work.

But if I read this correctly your 7 day reset doesn't start until you first get skill with that class. (?)

So a good tactic would be to get atleast 1 skill on each class you wanted to play that week, instead of hitting surplus then change?

I have not been on any beta, so little makes sense except for surplus sucks.

Now I know what the note book that comes in the special edition is for: Sep28th, gained skill on PUG @ 16:20, will reset on _____.

Ok nevermind, I reread Elmer post, I didn't notice it saying you are basically only going to get 8 hours worth. I was thinking if you got 1 skill point, wait 3 days it would save up so you can massive grind. Not the case though it seems.

[Brodan]

That would be nice, but I don't see it as a realistic option.

I've yet to see an MMO with "enough" content initially.

All the people here with the "I'll be the pioneer of this game" mentality are also the first ones to quit...

soo true. And it also applies to me..

[Corrderio]

Uhm, fatigue/surplus isn't cross-class.

Yes, but at the same time they'll be encouraged leveling nearly anything from how it sounds, guess it depends on their playtime.

[omegaB]

That would be nice, but I don't see it as a realistic option.

I've yet to see an MMO with "enough" content initially.

All the people here with the "I'll be the pioneer of this game" mentality are also the first ones to quit...

hardcores hit cap in wow in two weeks, people who knew howto play ffxi hit cap,
This system in no way adds content to the game, it just makes it so people cant gain level up as fast. its the difference of level to 50 then level new job and level up slowly. its really not adding anything to the game at all.
so why is it there. they dont have to change the curves, a level 50 doesnt effect a level 10 its not pvp

[Ezek]

That would be nice, but I don't see it as a realistic option.

I've yet to see an MMO with "enough" content initially.

All the people here with the "I'll be the pioneer of this game" mentality are also the first ones to quit...

World of Warcraft.

Warcraft lasted long enough (Molten Core, Onyxia) until the first real content patch (Dec 2004 patch only added a few 5man dungeons). The first clear of Molten Core was mid April 2005 iirc, nearly 6 months post release. BWL/ZG was added a month or two at most after. For the large majority of guilds, many would not finish Molten Core / Onyxia for many more months.

First impressions are everything, and that's probably one of the reasons why WoW has been at the forefront in MMORPG subscriptions.

Edit: You could probably call UBRS a raid as well, since pretty much every guild that I knew brought a full 40 man raid into that dungeon at the start of the game.

[Ae Cha]

That would be nice, but I don't see it as a realistic option.

I've yet to see an MMO with "enough" content initially.

All the people here with the "I'll be the pioneer of this game" mentality are also the first ones to quit...

That game had two full end-game dungeons and half a dozen high level small group instances right on release, along with PvP and other self-sustaining draws. This is part of the reason why it didn't fail horribly.

Really, even if they're adamant on not delaying the game any further, they can just release it as it is without any leveling gates. People who rush to the level cap 10 days aren't going to be surprised if there isn't end game content straight away, especially when there are so few other people to play with at that level.

People who quit because "there's nothing to do right now" are eas[ier] to win back once you actually put in end game content. Those people aren't bitter, just bored. People who feel frustrated by the leveling experience or other mechanics in the game aren't going to be as likely to renew their subscriptions, even if surplus is later removed when it's no longer necessary, because they're just going to remember how much it pissed them off. They should just frigging delay the game so they don't lose anyone to bad first impressions, but they won't do that.

[Hyan]

hardcores hit cap in wow in two weeks, people who knew howto play ffxi hit cap,
This system in no way adds content to the game, it just makes it so people cant gain level up as fast. its the difference of level to 50 then level new job and level up slowly. its really not adding anything to the game at all.
so why is it there. they dont have to change the curves, a level 50 doesnt effect a level 10 its not pvp

WoW doesn't need to give a shit about hardcore and if they quit or not. Do you think SE is allowed such luxury?

This system is not meant to add content to the game, it is meant to slow down the progression of those who would be the first to quit. SE needs all the time they can get to get ahead of the players, because MMO's are a race between players and developers. When you catch up, you get bored, wait for "a miracle patch" for a while, and then quit.

SE can't allow this to happen only after few months.

Really, even if they're adamant on not delaying the game any further, they can just release it as it is without any leveling gates. People who rush to the level cap 10 days aren't going to be surprised if there isn't end game content straight away, especially when there are so few other people to play with at that level.

I know that they won't, but SE can never satisfy those people anymore. The updates are there to slow down how fast people catch up with the content, not to satisfy those who have already catched up.

Those people will wait for a while, for this "miracle patch", but they will never get "enough" content. That's how it always works.

[omegaB]

if that was the case FFXI would have failed. hardcore NA on release, even with 75 levels, when they got to 75 the only thing to do was, not be able to pull fafnir. or go to sky. or start new jobs, most started new jobs, because sky was something you do a couple days a week, and a lot of people werent even in ls that tried to do that. if your game is fun, people will keep playing. they will make new jobs, hunt for items, etc
If anything this system will make people lose interest faster. when you cant advance how you want you start getting involved in other things that are more to your tastes, then your drop.

The people who get bored after hitting cap, and doing a new job and doing that to cap will probably get bored leveling a bunch of jobs to the exp cap each week, and they will get frustrated. only moreso as they play more. leveling archer was fun for me, until level 10, when i couldnt be bothered, and didnt want to bother. i can only imagine at level 38, 2 levels from more story line, new and exciting leves, a new cool skill on a job i like, and being able to go fight tougher mobs and explore more, i will only want to touch a level 20 archer with no skills i need till 30, a lot less.

[omegaB]

dbl

[Hyan]

if that was the case FFXI would have failed. hardcore NA on release, even with 75 levels, when they got to 75 the only thing to do was, not be able to pull fafnir. or go to sky. or start new jobs, most started new jobs, because sky was something you do a couple days a week, and a lot of people werent even in ls that tried to do that. if your game is fun, people will keep playing. they will make new jobs, hunt for items, etc
If anything this system will make people lose interest faster. when you cant advance how you want you start getting involved in other things that are more to your tastes, then your drop.

FFXI already had the "massive" grind to slow down players, not to mention LFG times and farming for gil.

Although at that point it wasn't even that necessary. Vanilla's and first expansion's worth of content under it's belt, it probably would have survived either way.

This (people ran out of stuff to do) actually happened during the JP release loong time ago, but the playerbase was small enough at that point and people joined in steadily instead of right at release so it wasn't so game breaking.

It's not surprising SE learnt from that "mistake" too.

[Ae Cha]

WoW doesn't need to give a shit about hardcore and if they quit or not. Do you think SE is allowed such luxury?

WoW wasn't a very casual game when it started out. Yeah, you could solo your way to the cap, but that was about all you could do. The only decent gear came from raiding, so if you weren't lucky enough to be in a decent guild or didn't have enough time to commit to a raid schedule, you were shit out of luck -- people in tier set gear would wipe the floor with you in PvP; the only other way to get PvP gear was to try to climb the PvP ranks, which often required playing battlegrounds literally 12+ hours a day with a skilled guild group for advancement (but even then, for most classes, this gear was worse than raiding gear); there were no "heroic" instances for people to pick up transitional gear, which became a pretty big problem for newcomers who were stuck with blue gear that prevented them from getting into raiding guilds even if they had the time; many class specializations were heavily marginalized both by the developers and lack of availible gear, and hybrid classes were aggressively pigeonholed into healing roles. Compared to how it is now, yeah, they really did need to worry about hardcore players, because those were the only people who could get anywhere in the game.

I know that they won't, but SE can never satisfy those people anymore. The updates are there to slow down how fast people catch up with the content, not to satisfy those who have already catched up.

Those people will wait for a while, for this "miracle patch", but they will never get "enough" content. That's how it always works.

If they're having problems racing the players, they should build up a buffer of content to release instead of releasing an unfinished game. If SE can't produce content quickly enough, and these people are going to get bored and quit even with surplus, what's the point of it at all? Instead of bored players, you'll have bored players and frustrated players.

[Hyan]

WoW wasn't a very casual game when it started out. Yeah, you could solo your way to the cap, but that was about all you could do. The only decent gear came from raiding, so if you weren't lucky enough to be in a decent guild or didn't have enough time to commit to a raid schedule, you were shit out of luck -- people in tier set gear would wipe the floor with you in PvP; the only other way to get PvP gear was to try to climb the PvP ranks, which often required playing battlegrounds literally 12+ hours a day with a skilled guild group for advancement (but even then, for most classes, this gear was worse than raiding gear); there were no "heroic" instances for people to pick up transitional gear, which became a pretty big problem for newcomers who were stuck with blue gear that prevented them from getting into raiding guilds even if they had the time; many class specializations were heavily marginalized both by the developers and lack of availible gear, and hybrid classes were aggressively pigeonholed into healing roles. Compared to how it is now, yeah, they really did need to worry about hardcore players, because those were the only people who could get anywhere in the game.

Okay, so what you're saying (and what Lucavi was saying earlier) is that while SE takes a dump on hardcore, Blizzard did the same for casuals (and surprise surprise, changed their ways after a while).

I'm not sure if that's better than what SE is doing, and frankly, this game has enough grinding without making the exp curve even longer than it would be now, with the way the class system is designed. I hate excessive grind.

If they're having problems racing the players, they should build up a buffer of content to release instead of releasing an unfinished game. If SE can't produce content quickly enough, and these people are going to get bored and quit even with surplus, what's the point of it at all? Instead of bored players, you'll have bored players and frustrated players.

If these players get bored with surplus, they'd get bored without it. At least now you could get somewhere in a less amount of time, although horizontally.