Komoto's Official Explanation of Surplus

[Katlan]

Basically they want your character to mimic real life situations? Where nobody in real life can go on fighting for ever and ever and not get tired.. so you will see diminishing returns? It still sounds like everything ppl have been bitching about, it will just be "less severe" then it is in beta. But still.. for example.. I was planning to take the day after release off to grind, but now there is no point in doing that since I will prolly reach that 8hr limit in one day.

I just don't understand a mmo that hinders your ability to play as much as you want.. and the "well you can play another job argument" i don't really like, because you shouldn't be forced to play what you don't want to.

And what about higher lv's when you need more xp to lv? Is that 8hr's worth of XP set for a lv1 or a lv49 character? Because what happens if it takes you 6hrs to go from 45-46? They have an internal system that prevents you from lving more then once a week?

[mastamind]

If elmer is right with hitting the level cap after 8 hours * calculated amount of exp by Se per hour (and its not anywhere time based) it quite annoyes me that they dont set a fix amount of exp (lets say for example you hit surplus after 15.000 exp).

Of course it would be diffrent ifthey calculate diffrent amount of exp per hour each job level.

Thats possible, but from what ive seen i was getting less xp per kill at lvl 18 than i was with my lvl 5 marauder per green mob. I would get something like 100 at 18 and 400-500 at 5.

[Anton]

If it's worth saying, it's worth saying again, people on the 6th page. Understand that beta xp values were, and possibly still are, overinflated, leading to this running into the cap issue way earlier than intended. SE acknowleges the problem and are considering several tweaks to the system in a big explanation post by the head dev, and isn't that in itself a welcome change? Christ, I remember when they would ninja update things and fervently not give a piss about the playerbase.

The real goal is to push for more job diversification, kind of a theme in FFXIV. Look, if you live in your mom's basement, you might hit this 'cap' on a job. Sucks. But then you switch jobs and play something else, and now you start fresh! I suppose if you're really hardcore, you'd hit that cap too. But then you switch jobs... and wouldn't you know it a week has passed.

This cap system does affect hardcore players, but it's not doomsday. Do you really want to play Pugilist for 40 hours? No, you'll probably pick up a crafting job, if only just to milk the local Guildleves. And the end result is while you will not hit PUG50 on day two, you may have ended up being able to craft some stuff for your main. Or you have a decent mage along the way. Or you also have a good Lancer too.

The system has pluses and minuses but the bottom line is if you stay diverse, you won't be too affected.

[Meresgi]

So they want to limit how people exp in the game? Sounds like no matter how you dress it up, it's the same thing.

Yes, and the government wants to limit your freedom by telling you that you can't murder people.

They said that if you went and did something else the penalty would slowly reset, that they are looking into upping how much xp you can gain before the penalty even sets in, and tweaking the system in other ways. There's no issue with them limiting people from getting to max level fast as hell.

Would you prefer them just introduce 30 more levels to grind through and up the xp needed for each to millions upon millions like Aion?

I'm sure SE wishes to apologize to everyone who MUST be the FIRST to hit cap in every MMO they play because it showcases how much of a badass they is.

[Muay]

I'm pretty sure it's to prevent that shit. So people won't look for the absolute, very very best way to earn xp and stick ONLY to that method, voiding a ton of other xp areas and party makeups. Sure there's no reason you can't go make a super party and burst out xp till you hit the surplus cap, but then you can go level new classes for added abilities for your main choice. Grinding the hell out of Archer to level cap w/o having another other weapon skills leveled up past 4 won't do you any good. And once you've hit cap in 2-3 weeks...what then? Sit around and complain there's no content because SE is busy fixing certain issues and working on content still, because they didn't think you would, or want you to have, hit max level so fast.

I'll say chances are very high this surplus will be taken out of the game fully eventually after a majority have hit end game and content has been pushed out to keep people busy. Right now it seems as a way to regulate the flow of people to max level and make it so everyone arrives there at generally the same time. Otherwise you have 5% of your player base flying ahead of everyone else, and setting up the economy the way they want for end game goods.

Actually, I'm wondering if the opposite will happen. People realize that the best pt will get them cap in one day, making it better to reach cap early, wait till surplus subsides, then go crazy and reach cap quick again. Then they can reach the cap multiple times during one week and really maximize exp

[zalasta]

Isn't it true that even if you hit 0 skill points gained they are still being converted to surplus? If that's the case, your time spent isn't lost to the void and as long as there is a good use of surplus, it may not necessarily be a bad thing.

[Meko]

Yes, and the government wants to limit your freedom by telling you that you can't murder people.

I quit reading right about here. Really, we are relating surplus to MURDERING PEOPLE?! Come on.

[Meresgi]

I quit reading right about here. Really, we are relating surplus to MURDERING PEOPLE?! Come on.

Internet and Sarcasm. You're basically just saying "They are limiting how I play the game!"...well the same can be said for EVERY game ever made. There's always a limit to make you play the game it was designed or how the developers wanted you to go about playing it. FFXIV isnt a sandbox game. If you really want to devote 60hrs a week into FFXIV then awesome, do it. Just now you have to mix that time up among other things instead of barreling ahead of everyone to get to the top of the mountain and then stand there going "Hey there's nothing on this summit!".

Isn't it true that even if you hit 0 skill points gained they are still being converted to surplus? If that's the case, your time spent isn't lost to the void and as long as there is a good use of surplus, it may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Right now I believe they said there's nothing to get with surplus, but hopefully they add things like potions and such or let you cash in your surplus xp to get 70% of it in the form of real xp that doesn't effect your surplus timer. Who knows what they will do with it. Might even be interesting if they put equipment for sale for ridiculous loads of surplus points so people who want to sit there and grind for 18hrs a day can do it.

[Kurokikaze]

Isn't it true that even if you hit 0 skill points gained they are still being converted to surplus? If that's the case, your time spent isn't lost to the void and as long as there is a good use of surplus, it may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Pretty much. If they make it so you don't have to jump through hoops to get some of your surplus back it would be pretty nice. Now it makes sense why it ranks up... I had 20 Levels of surplus skill on my Archer. That alone could've let me hit cap or get fairly close to if I could use it.

[Senji]

I hope everyone posts their char and server name in the future thread, cause this shits going to be real easy to figure out who insta-deny on our application page.

[Meko]

It's a poor idea, period. There is no "neat" feature about it. The fact remains, they have added a system to stop people from playing a specific class too much. Why are they doing this, nobody can answer. The only logical thing that comes to mind is that they want to slow down your EXP gain per class to avoid people hitting the level cap. They don't want to limit your play because you can simply toggle between 20 or so classes and go right back at it (aside from the physical levels). When you say "EVERY game does that", you are basically referring to other games "making you pick a class" or "making you pick a race" or "making you pick a server". Those are options, NOT limitations. Those things are not hindering your play style like surplus will.

[Katlan]

I'm sorry, but I dont understand? You wouldn't want ppl in ur LS who want to play the game their own way? Regardless of how the system is, even if it cuts your xp gained by 20% (and only 20%) after 8hrs, nobody wants to be punished for playing a game they are paying for. They are using "we want you to experience all jobs, ect.." as an excuse to promote a system that punishes you for playing too much. They can add all their justifications, but its still the same

[Senji]

So much for powerleveling.

[Meresgi]

It's a poor idea, period. There is no "neat" feature about it. The fact remains, they have added a system to stop people from playing a specific class too much. Why are they doing this, nobody can answer.

Here's an answer that comes to mind. Botting. If you limit the amount of xp a person can gain on a specific job, that limits the want for people to go out and create bot programs to xp grind for them (like Aion). It also limits chinese farmers from grinding around the clock to reach max level before anyone else and dominate the economy. Or that they want people to level multiple jobs, since the game revolves around having multiple jobs leveled to do anything. Or that they want people to not tunnel vision to max level, and instead explore everything the game has to offer you. There are a lot of reasons for why they are doing this.

When you say "EVERY game does that", you are basically referring to other games "making you pick a class" or "making you pick a race" or "making you pick a server". Those are options, NOT limitations.

I was saying there is a limitation in every game to forces you to do something else. MMO's don't have many, especially ones that foster solo play, but most every other game has some sort of limitation. "You can't go through blue door until you get blue key, which is far into the game..because blue door has a ton of powerful items behind and it we don't want you to have at the start of the game.", that sort of thing.

I would like to see them decrease the penalty if you are grouping up with other players, while keeping the penalty in place for solo grinding.

I'm sorry, but I dont understand? You wouldn't want ppl in ur LS who want to play the game their own way? Regardless of how the system is, even if it cuts your xp gained by 20% (and only 20%) after 8hrs, nobody wants to be punished for playing a game they are paying for. They are using "we want you to experience all jobs, ect.." as an excuse to promote a system that punishes you for playing too much. They can add all their justifications, but its still the same

It's such a horrible punishment that they are forcing you to play another class or two to gain decent abilities for your main class, or gear for yourself, or to explore and not tunnel vision grind.

[Meko]

It doesn't matter if they add surplus or not in regards to botters because they'll keep botting until they are capped. Once they are capped, they'll still bot. Therefore, we are going to penalize the actual paying customers that play the game legitimately to avoid "botters" leveling to the level cap.

[Correction]

My favorite part about Hyan's white knighting is that on the reverse of that particular coin is a very low set of expectations for content beyond exp and FedEx quests for the first set of players to reach level cap. "The system is good because the content will be bad and sparse."

This is what SE has brainwashed its masses of players to think: We never satisfy you, so we might as well slow you down once you figure out the math.

[Katlan]

It's such a horrible punishment that they are forcing you to play another class or two to gain decent abilities for your main class, or gear for yourself, or to explore and not tunnel vision grind.

It's not that, most ppl will lv other jobs along the way. But why can't we make our own decisions instead of having a system in place that tells us when to stop and when we can play? It takes the choice away from the player. And all they are doing is trying to sugar coat an idea that is horrible in essence. They are telling ppl how to play their game, ppl can justify it w/e they want and saying "its not a bad thing, yatta yatta" But in reality we are paying them to play a game by their terms.

How are you going to like it when you get to lv 45 and it takes 6hrs of leve's / grinding to get to 46?.. your so close to that lv cap and they are artificially gonna make you take 3-4 weeks to hit lv cap when you may just want to get there right then.

This won't have any affect on botting. Botters will be the first ppl to have all jobs to lv 50 since they will bot each job 8 hours during the week.

[zalasta]

Honestly, debating on the merit of the system is pretty moot at this point, I don't think anyone believe it's a good implementation. If this is a deal breaker for you, then fine. Discussing how to take advantage of it despite the fatigue is more constructive. People just need to learn to let go and move on.

[Callisto]

They were slow on the ball...but still it went from "Hmm what's this?" to "HOLY FUCKING SHIT THE END OF THE WORLD IS HERE" in a matter of days as it snowballed out of control and burst into flames. Speculation about certain things about SE games has always been the norm so they probably just shrugged it off until they saw what had become of it. Can't blame them for not reading fan forums though, 90% of the shit is a waste.

Relative to normal turnaround by them I don't think they were slow at all. I can't think of a serious playerbase freakout that's ever been addressed in less than 24-48 hours previously, especially not one that was actually explained and not just Sundi lolwut'd.

[Meko]

Sadly, you're right. I think we are all secretly hoping the devs are reading this and considering it. I know I am. In the end, those of us who are FF "fanboys/girls" will probably be out there taking whatever they dish out. It would be awesome to see the game take off and be huge like WoW is. Something that is on the casual side like WoW but with deeper storylines and quests like FFXI did.