Job Adjustments Part I (08/27/2010)

[evilpaul]

Yeah... Ima side with SD with this. Nins were gods - like he said, a part of the holy trinity. If you didn't have nin/brd/rdm, you weren't in a party, and you certainly were getting laughed at by BG.

I'm slightly puzzled as to what possible relevance historical histrionics on BG has to do with...well, anything.

Also, I thought in 2010 invoking pink birds on BG was the same as invoking Hitler comparison anywhere on the Internet?

[fredjanx]

DNC is crap?
whatisthisidonteven
Also, magic haste doesn't cap at 50%

[Lucavi]

I'm slightly puzzled as to what possible relevance historical histrionics on BG has to do with...well, anything.

Also, I thought in 2010 invoking pink birds on BG was the same as invoking Hitler comparison anywhere on the Internet?

Considering BG is the premier face of the most elite of the elite in FFXI, I'd say BG's response to the various ebbs and flows of job perceptions is pretty relevant to the general masses, especially for end-game events and high-level meriting.

[Malacite]

Been a while since I looked into haste caps but I thought Kirschy confirmed a 25/25/50 cap? (gear/ja/magic)


EDIT: Ah it's 43.75% ... weird. So then a SV Bard pretty much caps you if their skill is high enough o.O

Makes Haste II seem that much less likely to happen then, unless SE is completely throwing power creep out the window (along with game balance). The real question, then, is will COR's new ability be JA haste and function similar to desperate blows (which also "reduces delay" but functions like haste) or if it's magic... I'm leaning more on JA haste personally. Testing the specific values is going to be a bitch though isn't it? Even so, the prospect of a potential 10-minute haste buff is saweeeeeeeeeeet.

[fredjanx]

I don't think balance has ever existed.... though, uncapped haste/str/attack would be awesome

[Malacite]

I don't think balance has ever existed.... though, uncapped haste/str/attack would be awesome

You can't have uncapped haste. 100% Haste would essentially be 0 Delay, or infinite attacks. Any and everything you engage would die instantly.

[Spider-Dan]

I'm slightly puzzled as to what possible relevance historical histrionics on BG has to do with...well, anything.

When the topic of conversation is "waaah NIN barely/never had any time in the spotlight," the tiny detail that they were simultaneously considered gods of either tanking or DDing for nearly two years seems pertinent.

If one wants to argue that NIN has it bad now, fine. But don't try to sell me on this "NIN was never really very good at all" garbage. That's some moon-landing-was-faked type BS.

[Malacite]

It bugs me though that NIN is still the best DD in the game, at least on paper.

Damn shuriken cost barrier. Is it really asking too much for some cheap synergy recipes, since they're way easier to HQ? Maybe even new level 85+ Shuriken? I agree that they do need to be pricey to an extent, otherwise RNG would be out of a job. But they're still too expensive, to the point that there's no sense in using them other than to waste gil.

[Byrthnoth]

It bugs me though that NIN is still the best DD in the game, at least on paper.

Damn shuriken cost barrier. Is it really asking too much for some cheap synergy recipes, since they're way easier to HQ? Maybe even new level 85+ Shuriken? I agree that they do need to be pricey to an extent, otherwise RNG would be out of a job. But they're still too expensive, to the point that there's no sense in using them other than to waste gil.

Shurikens haven't been the best way to do damage for a while. You're forgetting how Haste affects Ranged Attacks.

[Nightfyre]

It bugs me though that NIN is still the best DD in the game, at least on paper.

Damn shuriken cost barrier. Is it really asking too much for some cheap synergy recipes, since they're way easier to HQ? Maybe even new level 85+ Shuriken? I agree that they do need to be pricey to an extent, otherwise RNG would be out of a job. But they're still too expensive, to the point that there's no sense in using them other than to waste gil.

...no? Katanas completely outclass shuriken given DW and haste. You'd have to be able to literally spam Kogas for it to even be in the same playing field (still not better), and that's not happening.

[Fievel]

Damn that cost barrier

[Malacite]

DPS on Koga is 27.5

But yeah Haste does kind of jank things. Even with that Snapshot Roll from COR, I'm not sure if NIN could keep up now. I just meant purely from a DMG vs Delay aspect, Shuriken outclass everything. Haste & DW together do screw with that though. If we had the old ranged attack formulas then maybe it could still pull ahead but I don't see that ever happening, especially with all the Snapshot gear RNG can get.

[Nightfyre]

DPS on Koga is 27.5

Nobody gives a shit.

[Byrthnoth]

DPS on any two elemental Magian Katanas combined with Dual Wield, double attack, and 60% Haste blows 27.5 out of the water.

D40, 201 delay
2 of them, D80, 15% DA, D92, 402 delay pre-DW, pre-Haste.
262 delay post-DW (35% from suppa and traits)
104 delay post-Haste

60*92/104 = DPS of about 53

So yeah, toss a Dancer on that and you're more than doubling the DPS of Kogas without sitting there spamming Ranged Attack using a 1k per shot item that drops from one BCNM.

[Malacite]

Yeah, but that's with two weapons and all kinds of buffs. Not saying it isn't better, because it is, just saying that it sucks that NIN's A- throwing basically goes to waste. That, and shuriken still have the highest damage output of any single weapon type, all on it's own.

It's like they were trying to pay homage to FF4~6, then just went "ah fuck it."


NIN has enough going for it on the melee side, with DW5 likely in december update. I'd like to see more focus on Ninjutsu & Shuriken is all, maybe even a way to combine the two (other than lolSange) kinda like COR's QD, but for Shuriken?

[Xanthe]

You can't have uncapped haste. 100% Haste would essentially be 0 Delay, or infinite attacks. Any and everything you engage would die instantly.

Um no. 100% Haste would be halved delay. If you have a 492 delay weapon and add 100% haste you are attacking twice as fast at 246 delay.

[Nevex]

Um no. 100% Haste would be halved delay. If you have a 492 delay weapon and add 100% haste you are attacking twice as fast at 246 delay.

You're confusing Haste with Slow.
+100% Slow = doubled delay. +100% Haste = 0 delay = infinite attacks.
You get halved delay with +50% Haste.

[Xanthe]

You're confusing Haste with Slow.
+100% Slow = doubled delay. +100% Haste = 0 delay = infinite attacks.
You get halved delay with +50% Haste.

That's what I get for trying to apply real world math to FFXI at 6am. In any other situation doing something 100% faster would accomplish the task in half the normal time.

[Malacite]

I believe it's because instead of acting as a multiplier, Haste divides your delay. It all works out fine when you run the numbers.

[Xanthe]

I believe it's because instead of acting as a multiplier, Haste divides your delay. It all works out fine when you run the numbers.

Yeah, it's an inverse multiplier rather than a straight multiplier.

Hasted Delay = [1-(n/1024)]*Delay
n = (Haste/100)*1024, capped at 820

What possessed them to do that instead of a normal multiplier and leaving haste uncapped is beyond me.