GM's crackin down?

[Shadida]

As far as I can tell, the moral of the story is that EU GM's suck.

[Yubar]

Wow, people defending the GMs? Did I enter bizzaro BG or something?

[Draylo]

Nobody is defending GMs? They were just commenting on how that guy was a idiot for the way he was talking to another person.

[Draylo]

woops

[GreenKnux]

You know what? At Pax this week I made mention to everyone I saw at the SE booth who worked for SE that their company has shit customer service. Yeah, it probably isn't their fault, but they should at least be informed that they should move to a better company.

And you think the GMs on 14 are going to be any different? People, we are dealing with the old xenophobic jackass Japanese. I'm not saying all Japanese people are this way, because clearly they aren't. What I am saying is we are dealing with a select few of the 'old' generation who think this kind of shit is okay. And they run the company. It's just like if the KKK made a MMO. And hell, from what we've heard, even the Japanese players fucking hate SE.

[Kaeko]

It's already well known that people have been jailed for this. So logically you could also get jailed for this if you are unlucky. It's a nice thread to vent your frustrations but people that use this should know they are messing with a gray area. Use at your own risk - just be glad they give you the chance to stop before taking any action.

It doesn't really matter what you're doing in the game so much as what the result is. "Pinning" came out in like 2007; it just didn't have a tangible use outside maybe KV holding until VNMs came out. No one cared then, but the instant you start potentially being able to monopolizing mobs it becomes a problem to people obviously. The goal for SE's not to necessarily play fair, but to manipulate a vague ToS to fit what SE's trying to accomplish. This is honestly a pretty tough topic to assess if you're just a normal GM w/o endgame FFXI experience so I'd give the GMs a break for being inconsistent.

[machiko]

The main problem I can see is how people are merc'ing VNM's. Given they take 4 hours to repop and 1-2 people can kill them with this very easy method, it will get to the point where proper VNM shells are going to be unable to do them, or they will just get the depopped unshadowed ones. People are unable to just kill the NM and get their drop, they have to kill it over and over to sell the drops, like RMT with Ulli.

If people's greed causes them to carry on killing it over and over causing problems then more and more GM calls will be made and in the end something will probably be done about it. It's akin to botting on HNM to sell the drops, difference here is it's obvious when you use pinning and you are right bang in a grey area to what a GM wants to do about it. Person in the OP's pic was selling the ring, wonder if the GM read the logs and took action based on that.

[Yugl]

The main problem I can see is how people are merc'ing VNM's. Given they take 4 hours to repop and 1-2 people can kill them with this very easy method, it will get to the point where proper VNM shells are going to be unable to do them, or they will just get the depopped unshadowed ones.

Pinning with 1-2 members doesn't suddenly seclude people from attempting to do VNMs with their LS. Both the LS and the 1-2 member groups have an equal chance of popping it so long as they start looking for the NM at the same time and the same place. If anything, the LS has an advantage because they have more bodies to find the NM using AP Radar, and if not, it still has an advantage since they don't need to completely buff + find the mob beforehand. More importantly, this isn't a closed off method. Anyone can do it as long as they have access to powder boots/flee. That said, your argument is turned backwards. LSs are more likely to enjoy the prospects of pinning because it means they only sacrifice a few members for VNMs while others move onto different events (Perhaps farming). In addition, chances are that the LS will have someone with access to powder boots than an individual. More clearly stated, it may be the case that the individual wanting to solo the VNM cannot do so because he or she only has classes leveled that do not have access to powder boots (Or cannot DoT/take hits while simultaneously using them). Consequently, the benefits of pinning are tailored to LSs (And who the hell has heard of a VNM LS?).

People are unable to just kill the NM and get their drop, they have to kill it over and over to sell the drops, like RMT with Ulli.

It's not akin to Ulli because we know that non-shadow VNMs will not drop the ring, so unless the individual needs the Magian items, it will be depopped. Ulli, on the other hand, will never be intentionally depopped because he will always drop the desired item. Moreover, your statement can generalize to most events in the game. You can merc Omega. You can merc Dynamis (Attestations specifically). You can merc Nyzul gear (lol!). You can merc HNM gear. You can merc Salvage gear. You can sell (Formal means of mercing) abyssea gear. What matters is the choice of the individual making claims over the NM (Which is not monopolized unless one uses APRadar while the other does not).

If people's greed causes them to carry on killing it over and over causing problems then more and more GM calls will be made and in the end something will probably be done about it. It's akin to botting on HNM to sell the drops, difference here is it's obvious when you use pinning and you are right bang in a grey area to what a GM wants to do about it. Person in the OP's pic was selling the ring, wonder if the GM read the logs and took action based on that.

It's not akin to botting for several reasons. First, bots sustain claim over the NM. Pinning, while allowing you to do things with less people, does not guarantee (or significantly heighten) claim over the NM outside of the time it takes to gather members. Second, even if this exception is true, it's not tailored against LSs (As proven earlier). It is the choice of the LS to use pinning or not and unlike botting, it is limited by the class you have available rather than access to an external (and illegal) entity. Clearly, *anyone* capable of planting DoTs and surviving on powder boots can employ this strategy. Who doesn't benefit from this limitation? The smaller groups/individuals suffer because they're less likely to meet all these parameters. The distinguishing feature between botting and pinning is the access to evidence. One can clearly see when pinning is in place as opposed to botting, which requires more than speculation over claim rates.

[Kohan]

I like how the dipshit GM can't spell penalty.

It's likely a GM from another region, and English isn't their first language (as only one other person mentioned, to the best of my knowledge).

I'm surprised so many people have yet to realize that each region has a separate set of GMs. You can ask them, they'll tell you -- it's no secret. It's also yet another reason why some GMs will say wildly different things than others, and screenshot comparisons aren't the most valid (unless region is specified, but it hardly ever is).

[NervosaEternal]

The main problem I can see is how people are merc'ing VNM's. Given they take 4 hours to repop and 1-2 people can kill them with this very easy method, it will get to the point where proper VNM shells are going to be unable to do them, or they will just get the depopped unshadowed ones. People are unable to just kill the NM and get their drop, they have to kill it over and over to sell the drops, like RMT with Ulli.

If people's greed causes them to carry on killing it over and over causing problems then more and more GM calls will be made and in the end something will probably be done about it. It's akin to botting on HNM to sell the drops, difference here is it's obvious when you use pinning and you are right bang in a grey area to what a GM wants to do about it. Person in the OP's pic was selling the ring, wonder if the GM read the logs and took action based on that.

I only know of two pinning spots out of the whole deal so im unsure how VNM linkshells would have an issue killing any t2/t3. There are how many zones to do VNM in? Doesnt add up. In my personal opinion pinning the mob would deal with making it bounce and forth and be unable to even come remotely close to being able to swing at you, nor throw tp at you, this i would see illegal, letting example such as krabkatoa run to the fence and swing at you, you are still in danger, you can still get venom shower on you ect. same for ruth in xarc, you can still die if the mob comes near you, if you are allowing the mob to come close enough i dont find it illegal. and maybe SE shouldnt fuck up so much and players wouldnt have the ability to pin or do half the fucked up exploits this game has. The only people calling GMs about this are other pinners that dont like the current pinner and nosy goody goodys that should mind their business and move on. Cause if they knew how to do it, they would to. Thats my two cents.

[ringthree]

Pinning probably isn't inefficient in terms of man hours. If you make VNM an LS event and bring 6+ to the Tier 3s, then it's inefficient to pin them.

It is very inefficient when you consider a group can do a VNM in any zone, but only some zones have decent pinning spots. Down time is wasted time.

[Byrthnoth]

There are a lot of things to do that aren't vnm, and pinned vnms don't need to be ls events.

[NervosaEternal]

There are a lot of things to do that aren't vnm, and pinned vnms don't need to be ls events.

^

[ringthree]

There are a lot of things to do that aren't vnm, and pinned vnms don't need to be ls events.

Begs the question, I guess...

[Yugl]

Begs the question, I guess...

Byrthnoth begs to no one.

Spoiler: show

Or maybe...

[ronin sparthos]

Pretty much the popular pin spots are in Xarcabard and East Ronfaure/(S). That leaves the other VNMs up at almost any time save the even smaller group of pinners who will use off the beaten path areas to pin other mobs.

This assumes they even pop the HQ which can also work in your favor. If they have it? Check later. If they dont? The hunt is on.

[TTL]

Not to send you girls out hunting for spots or anything, but I have a pin spot for every VNM, most in more than 2 zones :<

[Lyltia]

Shhhh.

[NynJa]

You know this is just gonna lead to SE giving every NM draw-in if they cant reach their intended target after X seconds

[arshesney]

...or they could just wise up and remove the stupid enhanced movement on soon-to-be-outdated NMs.
With the cap increase (not the 85 one, but 90+ likely) many jobs might be able to bore them to death.