Job Adjustments Part II (09/03/2010)

[NynJa]

Then why bother with utsu? Time spent casting is time lost DDing, let the mages/dancers deal with it.

[Khajit]

Somehow i figured that when you were /sam the mob wouldn't hit hard enough for you to give a flying fuck about it's melee hits/ws in the long run because the logical conclusion of everyone being too scared to take damage from a mob would be /nin and not a wildly inconsistent thing like 3rd eye.

[Dooom]

Shit's situational, some stuff hits hard but you can afford to /sam on because it has no AoE moves/is slow/hate is bouncing lots/whatever.

[Snick]

As a WHM "main", I'd much prefer DD go /SAM over /WAR.

Unless the character in question is SAM/WAR in which case my mind is fucked.

[Tsuko_Asura]

ITT: if you can't blood-tank, your mages suck.

MP and TP is finite, getting hit leads to hate loss, mobs have moves which can potentially one-shot you, and so on and so forth.

TP is infinite if you give your dancer the support it should have.

[Dooom]

Well ok, Waltz timers are an issue though even with perfect gear.

[Lucavi]

Damage taken is what Super Jump is for

Fixed. Fuck yeah Drg/war.

[Khajit]

you forgot about Soooouuuuuul Jump you jive turkey.

[Lucavi]

Shit, my bad. I've been out of the game too long! SOUUUUULLLLLLAH JUUUUMMMPUUU~~!

[Tsuko_Asura]

Well ok, Waltz timers are an issue though even with perfect gear.

Curing Waltz III is good for just over 400 HP, about the same as Cure IV. Waltz's recast is easily brought down to 7 seconds, and has no casting time. Cure's recast is generally going to be ~5 seconds, and will usually take ~2 seconds to cast. As a very active ex-red mage, I know for certain that its not all that difficult to keep a fully offensive DD alive by just using Cure IV, and that its only shortcoming is MP's finite nature. Conversely, I can literally spam waltzes infinitely and not have a problem keeping people alive. Again, its all in the support. Dancer + Bard + Haster = unlimited, timely healing.

[Draylo]

Yeah and isn't always going to be that straightforward. Some mobs wipe tp completely, some mobs paralyze or have ice spikes on, some mobs do shitty AOE's. There are limitations.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Paralyna: Check
Finale: Check
Divine Waltz: Check

Keep going, this is fun.

[Spider-Dan]

Unless you want your DNC to tank, that plan won't work.

[Marcicus]

oh that tsuko

[Tsuko_Asura]

Unless you want your DNC to tank, that plan won't work.

Unless you're spamming Divine Waltz II or your DD are simply terrible, you will not pull hate as a DNC. That said, who the fuck cares if you do? Heaven forbid the job that loses very little from keeping Utsusemi temporarily takes hate over the virtually defenseless DD in their party, amirite?

Question: Have any of you actually played with a good dancer? I run circles around my red mage in terms of healing ability(and overall utility, in terms of what we're talking about).

[FailureMidgard]

Unless you're spamming Divine Waltz II or your DD are simply terrible, you will not pull hate as a DNC. That said, who the fuck cares if you do? Heaven forbid the job that loses very little from keeping Utsusemi temporarily takes hate over the virtually defenseless DD in their party, amirite?

Question: Have any of you actually played with a good dancer? I run circles around my red mage in terms of healing ability(and overall utility, in terms of what we're talking about).

And here I thought "good dancer" was an oxymoron or something in neverland!

[Aquilo86]

Unless you're spamming Divine Waltz II or your DD are simply terrible, you will not pull hate as a DNC. That said, who the fuck cares if you do? Heaven forbid the job that loses very little from keeping Utsusemi temporarily takes hate over the virtually defenseless DD in their party, amirite?

Question: Have any of you actually played with a good dancer? I run circles around my red mage in terms of healing ability(and overall utility, in terms of what we're talking about).

You stipulate "good dancer" but your leaving out the fact that you are obviously playing with "bad red mages"

[Tsuko_Asura]

You've truly no grasp on the most basic of in-game mechanics if you don't comprehend why dancers are irrefutably superior healers to any magic-fueled class in any situation that can realistically supplement their TP acquisition. While relatively under-equipped, I'm an extraordinarily attentive red mage, and I can say from all angles of this discussion that the job posses no challenge to dancer's longevity or expedition.

[Spider-Dan]

Unless you're spamming Divine Waltz II or your DD are simply terrible, you will not pull hate as a DNC.

Please explain.

You say that DNC is a better healer than [mages] because of TP generation vs. MP generation. AFAIK, the formula for hate generation is the same for waltzes as it is for cure spells, and a (non-WHM) mage that's casting cures fast enough that MP generation is a concern will pull hate.

That said, who the fuck cares if you do? Heaven forbid the job that loses very little from keeping Utsusemi temporarily takes hate over the virtually defenseless DD in their party, amirite?

Fine, but that's why I said "Unless you want your DNC to tank, that plan won't work." If your response is "I do want my DNC to tank," then just say so.

P.S. How can you reduce Waltz recast?

[Abandon]

lawd have mercy, makes me almost wanna reactivate my account. drg, dnc, blu, cor love? wow, my jobs would be thrilled.