Dissidia Duodecim: Final Fantasy

[Elcura]

Chances are you could win, but that's not always the case, especially when some characters have set ups that only equipment can provide. Like I said before, if you like to fight with equipment and shit, that's your choice.

And Gabranth is great to do the leveling trick on precisely for those reasons. And Smash doesn't have a great deal more counter-picking than Dissidia, unlike SSF4 where counter-picking is a smart move to do.

[Nevex]

Golbez{don't bring up Genesis Rock}

Genesis Rock is absolutely brutal in closed stages, so it has to be mentioned.
It might not be that dangerous in open places like Cosmos' Throne, but the reason has already been explained. Every single attack in the game is easily dodged in open places.

[Spira]

I think the concept of a perfect default balance is lost to Dissidia. Even at the same level and naked, the fact that you can customize your movelist already means balance is thrown out of the equation since the value of each move differs according to who you're fighting with. Throw in auto-abilities, gear, accessories and summons to the mix and there really isn't any doubt that they never wanted 'fair comparison'.

That said, its pretty evident that they want certain jobs to excel in certain things more than others. And theres usually something to suit your playstyle. You want quick and pokey? go with Onion Knight. Quirky but badass? Kefka. Typical anti-hero? Sephiroth. That sort of thing.

Also because every stage is made different (EX or not) it adds to the equation that cannot be balanced. And all this doesn't even factor in skill yet.

I personally love to play quick, pokey, hit-and-run air game in Dissidia so I settled on Shantotto, who i still think is amazing, especially on fair level fights. Her moves can get pretty predictable fast, but they're effective, to me at least. Bio + Bind dodge trapping can be pretty fun even in open spaces. But vertical maps are her absolute undoing.

[Charismatic]

I'd say Kuja is her undoing... good luck ever landing bio or bind on anyone who knows how to play him.
Probably one of the worst character matchups I've ever seen.

[Meian]

I'd say Exdeath is her undoing... good luck ever landing bio or bind on anyone who knows how to play him.
Probably one of the worst character matchups I've ever seen.

Trick with some chars like Kuja for Shanotto is to not go for the Bind if they predict it and go straight for HP spell (water/aero for suction) especially if they like using the detonator mines brave move. Bio is more for making them have to pay attention more.

Plus, you can always go for the one-hit ko build for Shantotto.

[Charismatic]

Um... you realize that all Kuja has to do is play keep away and use ultima at the right time to get an easy win against Shantoto, right?
I mean, seriously... with his movement while casting he can play keep away against her all day and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it even with bind and bio because he doesn't even have to ever stop. The best a Shantoto could hope to do against any Kuja player who knows the match is to create a stalemate.


EDIT: Oh yeah, also... Snatch Shot and Remote Flare eat her alive.

[Meian]

is play keep away.

Like everyone has to do with Shantotto

In the case of Ultima only, Bind can grab at end of Ultima if timed well not to mention one-shot build can ex mode out of Ultima into said Bind (haven't tested directly with Aeroga/Waterga after Ultima without Bind in this build yet). I am not saying it's easy, if anything, it's one of the hardest matchups but I was merely stating that ExDeath is a harder matchup than Kuja for her.

Either way, these supposed changes to come I am curious of for Shantotto. The Retribution change made me happy. Maybe she'll be able to glide too while casting lol >_>

Edit: Saw your edit. Snatch Shot was where he sends his orbs to poke with that can go to chase right? Kuja uses that well for many fighters but blocking it into Bind is lol. Still more tools to mind game her with though as she has few.
Remote Flare is like Bio to keep them on their toes but more annoying. Bind can grab at the end of it also prior to dodging.

Unlike most spells, Bind still is in effect if you get hit while it's casted.

But again, ExDeath > Kuja in regards to vs Shantotto, maybe even CoD can be as hard as a match up as Kuja due to the counter magic attack. ExDeath turtles her TOO well.

[Charismatic]

Good Bartz or OK definitely doesn't have to play keep away with Shantoto to any degree.
I'm not too familiar with most of the cast against her though because everyone I know just counterpicks when they see her, lmao.

With no knowledge of the matchup, a Kuja can take away the W against her... that's pretty sad. If it's worse against Exdeath then she definitely needs improvement because it's already more than an uphill battle against Kuja... it's more like climbing a mountain.

[Meian]

If it's worse against Exdeath then she definitely needs improvement because it's already more than an uphill battle against Kuja... it's more like climbing a mountain.

And this guy was at least an aggressive-ish ExDeath user


Seriously unfair lol, if it weren't for Kuja being able to pierce his shields with Ultima...

[Charismatic]

Wow... that's completely fucked up.

[Elcura]

but I was merely stating that ExDeath is a harder matchup than Kuja for her.

Exdeath is a hard match up for everyone in the right hands.

[Corrderio]

I wish I was that good w/ Exdeath. Then again only characters I'm decent w/ are WoL and Squall.

[BlackMoomba]

Exdeath is a hard match up for everyone in the right hands.

Sadly finding one was few and far between. With my online play, I've only seen 3 good ones, the best going by the name of xffixbmlx, which was no exception since he was one of the best Dissidia players I've ever seen/played against.

[Indalecia]

I usually run with Terra and Golbez. CoD is third if I feel like mixing it up.

[Tobi]

Found these, some bit hard to see, but at least someone managed to leak something

[Meian]

Kain was pretty bad ass to see <3 What the hell man teased out of Kain's ex burst -_-
Vaan's video was impossible to see but I wasn't too interested in him
Loving Emperor's faster moves and that new move looks like an aerial trap
Laguna just looks fun to play

Sadly, no Kefka and Shantotto still

[Tobi]

[Tobi]

Laguna:

Ricochet Snipe has 3 Level
No charge - single bullet
Half charge - split to 3 bullets when ricochet
Max charge - split to 5 bullets when ricochet

Shield Bomb has no "hold" version.


Shotgun the 3rd shot blast the enemy far away for wall rush, while the recoil is too strong for Laguna, as shown in the vid


6-pack Missile tap = 1 missile, hold for more, max = 6

Grenade no "hold" for this attack, but rapid taps. 1,2 or 3 taps determines the throwing distance. Skill chart has (+1) (+2) icons for this.

Homing Bazooka just like Grendae, no hold, but taps. More taps = missile starts tracking later.


Spirit/Split Laser hold to delay the split.


Zidane:

Booster 8 - It's cooldown can be cancelled into any attack if hit, not cancel-able if whiffed

[Tobi]

From the same guy:

Kain
JUMP - I was unable to do Dodge Cancel on non-charged JUMP. A max charged JUMP was able to DC easily at the top of the jump arc.

Has 3 air Brave attacks
Celestial Shooter (CS): upward attack, long reach.
Thrust Rush (TR): forward attack, short reach.
Crash Dive (CD): downward attack.
all have 3 follow ups depends on your input:
CS > upward wall rush (UP+O), forward chase (O), downward chase (DOWN+O)
TL > upward chase (UP+O), forward wall rush (O), downward chase (DOWN+O)
CD > upward chase (UP+O), forward chase (O), downward wall rush (DOWN+O)
the chase follow ups do significantly less damage than the wall rush follow ups.

PL > triangle > TR is a pretty solid combo, while PL > CD would usually miss on OK, MAY be able to connect on characters that falls faster.
Cyclone has good tracking, equal to or better than Blizzard Barret in DFF.
Lancet could be done in the air, and Kain is able to move during the startup.
EX Burst command = rapid tapping of either O/X/[]/Triangle button, and will change 2 times.


Vaan
EX mode: Strongest Weapon: it also addes follow up to certain Switch attacks.

Like other gimmicks, his Skill chart has a special "SW" icon to denote the Switch version of an attack, as well as an "EX" icon to denote any additional follow ups. See below.

Just have time to try Normal mode Vaan today, so only 6 skills here, may add more later.
Axe+Shield (ground)
[Normal] 3x O button press multihit attack, not sure if this has guard point. Downward Wall rush.
[Switch] a small jump +downward strike, guard point at start, guard crush (Melee High priority), Downward Wall rush. additional follow up during EX.

Guns (ground)
[Normal] just a blast from a shotgun. Wall rush effect.
[Switch] does a backflip before doing a concentrated shotgun blast. Wall rush effect. Have Dodge properties on the backflip. Additional follow up during EX.

Greatsword (ground)
[Normal] 2x O button input, not charge-able, slow startup for a Normal version attack. Wall rush effect.
[Switch] rush attack, charge-able to increase rush distance. Uncharged version has very fast startup (but limited range). Wall rush effect.

Katana (air)

[Normal] 1 slice many hits, rush attack, chase effect.
[Switch] like Normal version but longer startup, more hits, like Sephiroth's attack, the first slice will do more hits if you delay the second O input as long as possible. Chase effect.

Sword+Shield (air)

[Normal] 3x O input, fast startup. Chase effect.
[Switch] guard, then 1 strong slash. Chase effect.

Staff (air)

[Normal] short reach, fast startup, multihit attack. Chase effect.
[Switch] spins staff around himself creating a sphere like a small size "CoD air 2". Fast startup, Vaan is able to move during the attack. Chase effect. Additional follow up during EX, repeats the same attack. I like this attack

Emperor
Ground Light Crest appears horizontally and then drops on the ground. Lies on the ground like Thunder Crest. Activates when opponents get near above it. Shoots upwards.
Red Flare hits opponent downward, far. Supposed to be causing wall rush (Blue Flare does not)
Melancholis Prison either have a special priority or a special hit timing. I was never able to land a hit XD. Traps have activated (could see those blue orbs+thunder) for like 6~7 times but no HP hit.

Kefka
Havoc Wing moves/tracks horizontally a bit after he's done rolling. Effectively increased its range. I keep getting hit by it lol.

Cloud
Blade Beam's melee hit cause guard stagger (Melee Mid priority). The beam goes very fast, but blockable.

Sephiroth
Gliding in EX mode was significantly improved. Now has a much better steering.

Ultimecia
Knight's Spear is real fast. Quick appear quick disappear.
Shockwave Pulsar would not explode immediately when touching wall/floor. It will stay as an orb there for 1~2 sec, having a noticable absorb effect, then explode.
Hell's Judgement - Ulti charges for like 2~3 sec, then a circle appears under the opponent (which was me) which cause the HP hit. The circle was so big that 1 sideway ground dodge could not get out. The CPU Ulti used this twice. First time I was not expecting, second time I spammed dodge sideways and got hit as well.



Tifa(Time stamps from video earlier)

0:02 Water Kick + Brv follow up
0:06 Water Kick + Brv follow up w/ Feint*
0:13 Water Kick > Somersault
0:17 Blizzara
0:19 Blizzaga
0:25 Dolphin Blow
0:35 Dolphin Blow w/ Feint
0:44 Falcon Dive
0:46 Falcon Dive w/ Feint
0:50 Erup Smash + Brv follow up
0:52 Erup Smash + Brv follow up w/ Feint*
1:00 Rolling Blaze
1:02 Rolling Blaze w/ Feint
1:06 Meteor Crusher
1:11 L+[] Assist Change**
1:17 Meteor Crusher w/ Feint
1:20 Burning Arrow w/ Feint
1:23 Meteor Drive w/ Feint
1:27 Meteor Drive
1:36 L+[] Assist Change again**

* These 2 attacks have their Feint point after the her BRV follow up , in other words, the button press is O > O > X > O. As mentioned in older reports, her Brv follow up could be done even whiffed the initial hit.
** As you can see, Assist Change launched me high up in the air. Here Tifa was quick enough to drop down for counterattack. But not always true to other characters.

Feint
tl;dr - cannot do other attacks after a Feint. After lag of Feint is long.
Technically speaking, Feint is not a cancelling to your current attack. It is a branch of her attacks. It is stated in the move chart in the customization screen (where you press [] when highlighting a skill to see the explanation). For a move that has only 1 O button press, the skill tree goes like this:

O ---------------->>> represents no Feint
　　|
　　---X---O----->>> represents O > Feint > O

And therefore, you cannot do other attacks after a Feint, pressing O (or [] after HP Feint) will just do the second O in the skill tree, which in most cases, is a short range version of the non Feinted attack. Different attacks have different Feint points and could be checked in the skill tree. I have seen at least 1 move having 2 Feint points.
Also, I was not able to DC after a Feint. And the lag after a Feint is HUGE, maybe like 3sec? (they give you this big window for inputting the second O XD)






Chase's tempo is so fast that it now becomes a guessing game (to me). Brave attacks are fast like 13 Frames? Maybe not as fast as Swift Attack/Hop Step, but I was not able to dodge on reaction. I needed to (kinda) spam X in order to dodge BRV. While HP attacks are harder to dodge too. They made the dodge window shorter, like 0.5 sec. Dodging with DFF time will easily get hit. When you are on the attack side, you can't really delay your input. The window is about 1 sec, if no input in 1 sec, chase ends.

EX is hard to fill up, if you never do Chase. Chase somehow helps a lot on building EX. Dunno the reason but it likes to suddenly add a chunk to EX, as much as an EX core. EX core gives less is for sure, about half of in DFF.

Back in DFF, I always prefer Wall rush attacks over Chase initiate attacks for obvious reason. Now in DDFF, it goes like
Wall rush attacks for damage (combo with Assist)
Chase attacks for EX
at least in this JF demo.

Assist Change
As a reminder, their properties are:
L+O while under attack = a) use 1 bar; b) your partner jumps in and take the hit for you; c) your Assist Gauge will be locked; d) you will be positioned above your opponent; e) opponent will not stagger and will continue on the attack, and may hit you depending on the range, angle.
L+[] while under attack = a) use 2 bars; b) your partner jumps in and guard the attack; c) no lock to Assist Gauge; d) you will be positioned above your opponent; e) opponent will be staggered and chance for you to counterattack.

Point a,b,c are obvious and easily confirmed. For point d, my character was actually launched high up in the air, and hence negating point e) most of the time.
In other words, after using L+O, I have never got hit because I was too high above the enemy. While in the L+[] case, I could hardly counterattack the staggered opponent because I needed to wait for a while, drop down to the appropriate altitude for the counterattack, which then my enemy had already recovered from the stagger.

So far I don't see much advantage on using L+[] Assist Change, not to mention it won't stagger far range attacks. The only pros of it was the no Assist Lock point, but you do need a full Assist Gauge. Also in this JF demo version, the S&L for assist activates quickly.

His Lightning vid got corrupted, so no gameplay video of Lightning

[Meian]

Ahh much better. Vaan's aoe spin move reminds me of CoD's tentacle rape fest brave move.
Edit: Didn't notice the other posts but he seems to have stated it too. Guess no Empyreal Paradox in this build.