Final Magian/Empyreon Armor.

[Scrooge]

Terrific. thanks for the info.
Have you seen or heard anything about the Augments dual wield?

Heard nothing.

It's not related to TP (or if it is, it's so small, I can't tell). I still end 10 attacks at 43tp on 428 combined delay. If you have any ideas I can test that's not stupidly annoying to test, I'll give it a shot.

[Malacite]

Is the extra TP going to low your Hit build a hit? If no, then its useless no matter what.

/DNC says hi? Otherwise I agree.


What are the chances that 5/5 NIN AF3 will only yield another 5% DW reduction? It'd be sweet if it was 10 or more, but I don't think that's terribly likely.

Okay so I was about to mention how DW5 is coming but apparently NIN already got it at 85, damn. Makes me wonder if 6 is a possibility at 99 now, but anyway:

35 base, +5 Suppa, +5 Iga Zukin +2, +5 Koga Hakama +1 (for extra pimp), +5 Ninja Chainmail god damn 55% DW...


Someone needs to test if there's a DW cap like there is a haste cap. I want to say it stops @ 50% similar to spell timers, but who knows? I forget how DW is calculated but doesn't it essentially function in the same manner as haste in that it's a geometric growth?


EDIT: Okay found the calculation again... Holy crap, DW Kannagi + Kikoku (and I'm sure there's at least a few NIN out there who are trying to do this) would net a 189 combined delay... shit what would the DPS be on that o.O ?

[Deader2818]

Yes, im going to merit something for a situational sub job that hardly gets much use. Wonderful idea!

[Shenrien]

EDIT: Okay found the calculation again... Holy crap, DW Kannagi + Kikoku (and I'm sure there's at least a few NIN out there who are trying to do this) would net a 189 combined delay... shit what would the DPS be on that o.O ?

I laughed a little at the thought of Kikoku being an off hand.

[Motenten]

Is the extra TP going to low your Hit build a hit? If no, then its useless no matter what.

I keep ignoring all the sam weapons that come up, so just taking a rough guess here using easy gear:

Given: 25 (trait) + 10 (merits) + 5 (rajas) + 1 (brutal) + 5 (unkai legs +1) + 5 (unkai head +1) + rose (4) + askar body (5) + Usu feet (7) = +67 Store TP

Weapon: 464 delay Keitonotachi (+10% WS dmg)

Base TP: 12.2

12.2 * 1.67 = 20.3

Ikishoten bonus (4 merits): 12 * 1.67 = 20.0

So yes, Ikishoten would be shaving a full hit off even with just 4 merits in it, unless your WS set drops your Store TP enough that you really need more than 20.0. Of course you then have the counter-option of adding a bit more Store TP to the normal build (the +2's of the AF3, if nothing else).

[Atoreis]

/DNC says hi? Otherwise I agree.


What are the chances that 5/5 NIN AF3 will only yield another 5% DW reduction? It'd be sweet if it was 10 or more, but I don't think that's terribly likely.

Okay so I was about to mention how DW5 is coming but apparently NIN already got it at 85, damn. Makes me wonder if 6 is a possibility at 99 now, but anyway:

35 base, +5 Suppa, +5 Iga Zukin +2, +5 Koga Hakama +1 (for extra pimp), +5 Ninja Chainmail god damn 55% DW...


Someone needs to test if there's a DW cap like there is a haste cap. I want to say it stops @ 50% similar to spell timers, but who knows? I forget how DW is calculated but doesn't it essentially function in the same manner as haste in that it's a geometric growth?


EDIT: Okay found the calculation again... Holy crap, DW Kannagi + Kikoku (and I'm sure there's at least a few NIN out there who are trying to do this) would net a 189 combined delay... shit what would the DPS be on that o.O ?

God how I hate bullshit like this.
1. Kannagi + Kikoku idea is another stupid talking about 0.0001% NINs. Its not even worth mentioning before someone will make both on one char and even then it will be just curiosity.
2. Yeah lets put on all possible dual wield and completly ignore fact of haste equip.
Its like MNK I can probably equip hp equip that will put me on 5k hp in abyssea. Cool for tanking except I would never keep hate. Koga Hakama is a trash. Ninja Chainmail is optional for party maybe I would still use Usukane for something serious.
3. Kamome is probably best offhand for Kannagi. Dps on Kannagi+Kamome is only beaten by Verethragna if ODD on Verethragna can proc on both hands if not then Kannagi+Kamome wins (Its then best dps of the all weapons on all jobs)

[Andradi]

God how I hate bullshit like this.
1. Kannagi + Kikoku idea is another stupid talking about 0.0001% NINs. Its not even worth mentioning before someone will make both on one char and even then it will be just curiosity.
2. Yeah lets put on all possible dual wield and completly ignore fact of haste equip.
Its like MNK I can probably equip hp equip that will put me on 5k hp in abyssea. Cool for tanking except I would never keep hate. Koga Hakama is a trash. Ninja Chainmail is optional for party maybe I would still use Usukane for something serious.
3. Kamome is probably best offhand for Kannagi. Dps on Kannagi+Kamome is only beaten by Verethragna if ODD on Verethragna can proc on both hands if not then Kannagi+Kamome wins (Its then best dps of the all weapons on all jobs)

Given that accuracy is irrelevant and NIN can cap gear haste without the legs slot, there is no reason not to use Ninja Chainmail +1 and Koga Hakama.

[Atoreis]

Given that accuracy is irrelevant and NIN can cap gear haste without the legs slot, there is no reason not to use Ninja Chainmail +1 and Koga Hakama.

Accuracy is irrelevant if you have good equip not when you put 0 accuracy on you unless you wanna stick with sushi or pizza loosing another boost from better food.

Also how exactly you can cap haste on nin w/o legs?
4(feet)+7(belt)+4(hands)+6(head)+1(neck)=22 what im missing? If you talking about /drg then I will just stop writing here.

[Andradi]

4 (ring)

[Atoreis]

Oh yeah becouse this ring is always active.

[Hookah]

Are those rings even viable anymore with the abyssea HP buffs, or does the added HP not count towards your base?

I'd hate to think of the HP- gear you'd have to carry around if it does.

[Odin'sLaw]

just because its funny, next update..../dnc can use HASTE SAMBA! D: been fun then right? right? lol

[Massimo]

Oh yeah becouse this ring is always active.

It's active when you want it to be. We've had this fucking discussion too many times.

just because its funny, next update..../dnc can use HASTE SAMBA! D: been fun then right? right? lol

A 5% Haste Samba and stuck with shitty CW2's. Dancer still wins.

[Odin'sLaw]

It's active when you want it to be. We've had this fucking discussion too many times.



A 5% Haste Samba and stuck with shitty CW2's. Dancer still wins.

of course dancer still wins i was just trying to state situational shit is situational

[Anomander]

I keep ignoring all the sam weapons that come up, so just taking a rough guess here using easy gear:

Given: 25 (trait) + 10 (merits) + 5 (rajas) + 1 (brutal) + 5 (unkai legs +1) + 5 (unkai head +1) + rose (4) + askar body (5) + Usu feet (7) = +67 Store TP

Weapon: 464 delay Keitonotachi (+10% WS dmg)

Base TP: 12.2

12.2 * 1.67 = 20.3

Ikishoten bonus (4 merits): 12 * 1.67 = 20.0

So yes, Ikishoten would be shaving a full hit off even with just 4 merits in it, unless your WS set drops your Store TP enough that you really need more than 20.0. Of course you then have the counter-option of adding a bit more Store TP to the normal build (the +2's of the AF3, if nothing else).

I was under the impression that the ikishoten bonus was straight tp added, and the bonus tp was not modified by store tp.

[Kojack]

God how I hate bullshit like this.
1. Kannagi + Kikoku idea is another stupid talking about 0.0001% NINs. Its not even worth mentioning before someone will make both on one char and even then it will be just curiosity.
2. Yeah lets put on all possible dual wield and completly ignore fact of haste equip.
Its like MNK I can probably equip hp equip that will put me on 5k hp in abyssea. Cool for tanking except I would never keep hate. Koga Hakama is a trash. Ninja Chainmail is optional for party maybe I would still use Usukane for something serious.
3. Kamome is probably best offhand for Kannagi. Dps on Kannagi+Kamome is only beaten by Verethragna if ODD on Verethragna can proc on both hands if not then Kannagi+Kamome wins (Its then best dps of the all weapons on all jobs)

wow. way to contribute NOTHING.
While I have to agree with you that Kannagi/Kamome is sweet; one could opt for a strength Sekka +1 and have potential for the next two updates. Clearly stacking crit with the RR atma is good. Yet outside of abyssea I don't think 10% crit dmg is huge. And if someone put in the work and DID have Kannagi/Kikoku, Who are you to say they're stupid for playing with their toys?

As far as your views on Dual Wield are concerned I think most ninja's like swinging fast. Assuming there is no cap on dual wield Ninja can reach 60% delay reduction (35% job trait, 5% suppa, 5% AF body, 5% Relic legs, 5% AF3 head and 5% Nusku's sash). I know, I know "GIVE UP BELT AND LEG HASTE FOR DUAL WIELD!?" but 10% reduction on your delay of 390 delay (Kannagi+Kamome) will make you faster than 13% reduction of 195 delay (Kannagi+Kamome -50% DW).
Yes, you are giving up some recast time but ninja finally has a chance to be a respectable DD and I think that's what everyone is excited about.

Now I'm certain you'll have something to say but I won't be replying to any comments about how terribly wrong I am.
However, should you like to offer any idea's or testing to the ORIGINAL question (Have you seen or heard anything about the Augments dual wield?) though I would be happy to discuss and bounce idea's of each other.

BTW I was wondering if it could be a possible haste augment like the Sam AF3 legs Augments: Hasso
Thoughts/Ideas?

[Byrthnoth]

I was under the impression that the ikishoten bonus was straight tp added, and the bonus tp was not modified by store tp.

I'm under the impression that you're correct, which is why it's such a worthless tier 2 merit.

[Taint]

I was under the impression that the ikishoten bonus was straight tp added, and the bonus tp was not modified by store tp.

It is modded by STP. I did 5/5 for fun and get 44tp returns from a zanshin hit.

[ejiboo]

Is the extra TP going to low your Hit build a hit? If no, then its useless no matter what.

44 tp will lower any realistic xhit you build for... come on now.

[Malacite]

o.O 44 TP wow. Probably still not worth it given Zanshin's proc rate but that's still kinda cool.

Also was unaware NIN had a DW belt (it wasn't listed on wiki, at least not in the DW stub o.O) but yeah I was just curious because even at 55. Emp + Relic = 189, or 94.5 delay for each weapon. Plus it's not like you can't stack haste on top of that, since far as I know Haste is still applied separately from DW even though they function in a similar manner with regards to delay.


So yeah, I'm kinda stoked to see just how obscenely fast NIN can get now.