Final Magian/Empyreon Armor.

[Obsidian]

^ screw you


I'm not really inclined to believe either argument until someone puts up the hard numbers as you've said. Both sides sound fairly plausible, but data & facts are indisputable. I can see his point about NIN being the better DD over all though when you take into account Ninjutsu and Dual Wield getting more powerful the more you have (AF3 feet giving you 6 shadows on Ni is fucking sexy too).

Someone would have to put up a damage chart though that included counter attack damage since counters I'm sure can easily make up for the difference in speed (at least until NIN gets even more DW)

MNK gets a buff every time it levels up, with H2H damage being dependant on H2H skill. I have no idea how that compares to dual wield, but it's not really something you should dismiss.

Does dual wield cap?

[Cream Soda]

While I agree that I don't think nin can take mnk (though very close)

str/acc/atk/etc

Irrelevant stats 99% of the time. You're capping fstr on cruor buffs/furtherance alone. So what good does stacking str in your tp build do for you? Acc? Shouldn't be having acc problems. Attack, yea attack will do you some good, until you pop a stalwart's.

As for your chance at kicking twice, so its so remotely low lol, not a serious contender in the least. So really looking at 2-4 vs 2-5 in most cases. 2-6 is technically correct, but you have to note how rare the 6th is going to be in every situation.

[Nightfyre]

NIN is an ok dd at best MNK should floor a nin twice over if given the same options for teir of gear, and 6 shadows? better be a typo or SE's out done themselves

NIN gets 25% haste and 15-20% DW from gear now in addition to 35% from traits. Tobi+1/Kamome has a raw DPS of 29.129 with full DW (Shinobi Ring), 26.216 if you can't proc Shinobi (you lose Nusku's Sash). A Revenant Fists +1 MNK nets 24.716, and also has a lower fSTR cap on their weapons. I realize that's not accounting for kicks, counters, WS damage, and other variances (different weapons, DA, critrate, critdmg, STP), but saying MNK floors NIN right now as a DD is bullshit. NIN is a very good DD right now - I don't think it's on top, but it's up there.

I believe it's 5 shadows on Ni with AF3+2 feet.

[Odin'sLaw]

NIN gets 25% haste and 15-20% DW from gear now in addition to 35% from traits. Tobi+1/Kamome has a raw DPS of 29.129 with full DW (Shinobi Ring), 26.216 if you can't proc Shinobi (you lose Nusku's Sash). A Revenant Fists +1 MNK nets 24.716, and also has a lower fSTR cap on their weapons. I realize that's not accounting for kicks, counters, WS damage, and other variances (different weapons, DA, critrate, critdmg, STP), but saying MNK floors NIN right now as a DD is bullshit. NIN is a very good DD right now - I don't think it's on top, but it's up there.

I believe it's 5 shadows on Ni with AF3+2 feet.

mnk/war has 6 rounds of attack with the right Atma's and gear can counter 75% of the time so your basically counting like a boxer mnks DoT has always been high and there Victory smith just adds to how impressive mnk is, nin is an ok DD abyssea has made it alot better but mnk has been top tier and i doubt mnk will be knocked off for a long time unless this next update just floors all none 2 hander jobs

[Alkimi]

Tested the WHM set bonus with 2 pieces of +2. Sat in the middle of the worm camp in Abyssea-Attohwa and put Barstonra up. Set bonus occasionally annuls magic damage although the proc rate is very low, saw 3 procs in 232 nukes so I'd estimate 1-2%.

[ronin sparthos]

Sounds like what BRD will be after the patch. lol

[Darkmagi]

Carol2 already has a chance to nullify it's damage type. Assuming it's a glitch(likely), probably just boosts the rate and gives scherzo a chance to reduce the damage by 95%.

[Malacite]

It was posted earlier in this thread I believe that AF3 +2 feet is +1 shadows on Ichi and +2 on Ni.

Does DW cap or what? That really sucks if it does given how high THF & DNC can get it now.

[ronin sparthos]

Carol2 already has a chance to nullify it's damage type. Assuming it's a glitch(likely), probably just boosts the rate and gives scherzo a chance to reduce the damage by 95%.

Right.

[Zag]

Some people seem to forget to add the counter DAMAGE to the overall score on MNK vs NIN. I seen a relic MNK on my server by the name of knuckle consistantly do 390+ damage counters and he spams the counters like crazy. I think he uses razed ruin atma and the counter atma from I think the bugard NM. Think it was called gnarled horn atma.

So you are spamming crit hits and kicking like a beast then you are spamming almost 400dmg counters each time you counter. And for ppl that have victory smite, its no contest against a NIN. Victory smite has been seen doing close to 7000 damage by many ppl who have the weapon.

It(Victory smite) averages close to 3k while jin's damage spike seems to be in the 3k range. But I cannot say anything yet as I have not seen Ninja's empyrean WS in action yet so I am not gonna be biased.

I honestly do not think a perfect geared NIN can ever beat a perfect geared MNK in damage anytime in FF11's timespan. Both jobs are very good right now though and they should stay good, they both deserved upgrades on them for a very long time.

[Plow]

War has a bit lower rate of doing the same shit for a lot more damage and getting hit+2 tp from it.

[Hyriu]

Some people seem to forget to add the counter DAMAGE to the overall score on MNK vs NIN. I seen a relic MNK on my server by the name of knuckle consistantly do 390+ damage counters and he spams the counters like crazy. I think he uses razed ruin atma and the counter atma from I think the bugard NM. Think it was called gnarled horn atma.

So you are spamming crit hits and kicking like a beast then you are spamming almost 400dmg counters each time you counter. And for ppl that have victory smite, its no contest against a NIN. Victory smite has been seen doing close to 7000 damage by many ppl who have the weapon.

It(Victory smite) averages close to 3k while jin's damage spike seems to be in the 3k range. But I cannot say anything yet as I have not seen Ninja's empyrean WS in action yet so I am not gonna be biased.

I honestly do not think a perfect geared NIN can ever beat a perfect geared MNK in damage anytime in FF11's timespan. Both jobs are very good right now though and they should stay good, they both deserved upgrades on them for a very long time.

Why would you compare Victory Smite to Jin anyway? if you're gonna do that use Blade: Hi as a basis, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[seiji]

It was posted earlier in this thread I believe that AF3 +2 feet is +1 shadows on Ichi and +2 on Ni.

Does DW cap or what? That really sucks if it does given how high THF & DNC can get it now.

a DW cap wouldn't be such a bad thing for THF if:
- they can get close to it without DW sub (only DWI nativ)
- they dont trade more stat on gear to reach it than they get from sub (not thf so idk thf gear)

[Byrthnoth]

Can a NIN just test it already?

Trait, AF1 body, Suppa, AF2 legs should be 50%. Put them on, zero your TP, hit monsters 10 times and record your TP.
Trait, AF1 body, Suppa, AF2 legs, and any other piece of DW enhancement (AF3+2 head, Nusku's Sash) should be 55%. Put them on, zero your TP, hit monsters 10 times and record your TP.

If it is the same, DW caps at 50%. If it is different, the DW cap doesn't exist or isn't relevant.

[Malacite]

a DW cap wouldn't be such a bad thing for THF if:
- they can get close to it without DW sub (only DWI nativ)
- they dont trade more stat on gear to reach it than they get from sub (not thf so idk thf gear)

What I meant was that it takes away from NIN's edge over other jobs.

[Darkmagi]

Can a NIN just test it already?

Trait, AF1 body, Suppa, AF2 legs should be 50%. Put them on, zero your TP, hit monsters 10 times and record your TP.
Trait, AF1 body, Suppa, AF2 legs, and any other piece of DW enhancement (AF3+2 head, Nusku's Sash) should be 55%. Put them on, zero your TP, hit monsters 10 times and record your TP.

If it is the same, DW caps at 50%. If it is different, the DW cap doesn't exist or isn't relevant.

I'll go test this now actually.

[Darkmagi]

43 TP with trait+body+legs+suppa, 42 tp with trait+body+legs+head. Does not cap at 50%.

[seiji]

could also test if there is a total delay reduction cap (same test with different value for blitzer)

[Gokku]

how do people post K parse logs , i have a parse from my abyssea party today as monk/war. i used 0 stalwarts etc. items and only had RR / VV atma and cour buffs on. food was a bison steak. Mob type was Murex in Vunker ,Number of mobs parsed 167 : i did 57.95% of my alliances dmg totaling to 54k dmg ( 23k Melee 700 Chiblast 27.9k V smite and 3.3k in Counters ) my Smites dmg range is 1145 low 4492 high 2883 avg .

[Motenten]

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