Final Magian/Empyreon Armor.

[Miroku_Asura]

HP boost doesn't affect sorcerer's ring activation , as it counts as buffs rather than your actual max HP .

Oh word- didn't know that.

[grevenilvec75]

MAB has diminishing returns the more you stack it iirc- so when you're using Beyond + Ultimate, you wouldn't see that big of a boost from the Sorc ring than you would otherwise. Also, I'd assume it'd be a bigger hassle to trigger Sorc. Ring in Abyssea with various HP boosts and the like :3

MAB does not have diminishing returns, 1MAB will add 1% dmg no matter how much you already have (unless there's some cap). Even with all the MAB from atma, I seriously doubt that 7INT will beat 10MAB since blizz5 has a base dmg of 848, 10mab will be AT LEAST 84 extra DMG and 7INt isnt gonna come close.

[TheDirtyHobo]

MAB does not have diminishing returns, 1MAB will add 1% dmg no matter how much you already have(unless there's some cap).

No. Learn how math works.

10 MAB is probably better, but the latent is a pain in the ass to trigger.

[grevenilvec75]

1000 (base D + M(dINT) we'll say) * 1.00 (no MAB) = 1000 actual dmg
1000 (same as above ) * 1.01 (MAB +1) = 1010 actual damage (aka 1% aka 10 extra damage)
1000 (same as above ) * 1.02 (MAB +2) = 1020 actual damage (aka 2% aka 20 extra damage)

please tell me which value(s) of +MAB will start producing less damage than 1%/per mab.

EDIT: 1 =/= 10 >_< doh.

[Kirschy]

Kirschy thanks for confirming the +1%crit dmg augment, I'm retarded and a ranged att test would have been much simpler than the 2hours I spent getting crit samples from regular punches when I did my testing. Glad to see ya playing monk now as well because I'm quite the lazy person and don't always get around to testing things as soon as possible. Let me know if ya ever nail down a better number for set bonus than the 10% I concluded. Back to the lazy factor I still haven't done more than the 350 kick attack rounds that I drew that number from.

Just recently finished the set, but I need to think of a good way to test it. I tribox too often, and use marches/haste nearli 100% of the time so I miss the attack animations Maybe Genome's(I think it was him?) old test of using the H2H /w 100% add effect. That way I can parse the log later and figure out the number of kick attacks easier? Any ideas?

[TheDirtyHobo]

please tell me which value(s) of +MAB will start producing less damage than 1%/per mab.

MAB>1. You just proved it yourself.

[geno3302]

If I'm not mistaken it's because the more you add the less the increase. 1000 base dmg, BLM has 60 MAB they do 1000*1.6 = 1600 now we add Atma of the Ultimate (MAB+50 if i'm not mistaken) now total MAB is 110. 1000 * 2.10 = 2100, 2100/1600 = 1.3125 not a 50% increase in dmg.

edit: not saying what's better or worse cause i have no idea, but i think this is the explanation

[Obsidian]

Attack a fortification with high delay knuckles (relic knuckles?) perhaps?

Edit: To Kirschy.

[TheDirtyHobo]

If I'm not mistaken it's because the more you add the less the increase. 1000 base dmg, BLM has 60 MAB they do 1000*1.6 = 1600 now we add Atma of the Ultimate (MAB+50 if i'm not mistaken) now total MAB is 110. 1000 * 2.10 = 2100, 2100/1600 = 1.3125 not a 50% increase in dmg.

edit: not saying what's better or worse cause i have no idea, but i think this is the explanation

Correct. Increasing/decreasing returns means compared to what you had before, not compared to the baseline.

[grevenilvec75]

using examples from before
MAB+50 = +500 actual damage.
ANOTHER MAB +50 = ANOTHER +500 actual damage.

perhaps i'm having a trouble with the semantics.

[geno3302]

ok so lets look at it this way. Ring has MAB+10 so if base dmg is 1000 it adds 100 dmg, this is always true. Now lets say(cause i don't know the math) each point of INT adds 5 dmg to the base. If you had no MAB then it would take 20 INT to get the same +100 dmg, however you already have MAB from traits and other gear so that applies to the INT. So if you have MAB+20 then 5 extra base dmg will turn into +6 dmg and now you need 16.6~ (17) INT in that slot to match the MAB+10. Now with MAB+a fuck ton that BLM now have it's possible that the INT from the ring * all the MAB is greater then the 10% increase to the base

[Obsidian]

You can't compare to the same base damage.

You can't have ten apples, take away two, put them back, take away three, and say you have five apples.

[geno3302]

You can't compare to the same base damage.

You can't have ten apples, take away two, put them back, take away three, and say you have five apples.

wut? who is this directed towards, i have no idea what that means lol. If it's to me i can explain with a better example

[Obsidian]

Guy above you.

EDIT: And I probably shouldn't have posted. I'm on heavy pain killers at the moment. If it makes no sense just ignore it. I think what I was trying to get at was he went 1000*1.5 twice instead of 1000*1.5*1.5.

Fuck if I know. He's wrong though.

[geno3302]

this confused me the first time someone said it i was like "wtf you mean? 1.02 -> 1.03 is 1%" then i was like ah.....yes...quite...

edit for making it sound like i meant it to sound

[grevenilvec75]

I see the problem now in my explanation, but 1mab will always add the same amount of actual damage no matter how much mab you already have. I wouldn't call this "Diminishing Returns" but I don't write the dictionaries so I concede this point.

Also something else to ponder:

1000 base damage +100INt (lets assume a tier multiplier of 1.0 and no mab/staff/resist/day/etc bonuses) = 1100 actual damage (1100/1000 = 1.1% increased damage)
1100 + 100INT = 1200 actual damage (1200/1100 = ~1.090909090909090909090909090909 increased damage)

Ergo INT has "diminishing returns" also.

anyway sorc ring is still better than icesoul

[SargentRemora]

Just finished Caller's Doublet +1, basic testing on Raptors outside of Jeuno with both Meteor Strike and Heavenly Strike (0 TP merits and 0 TP when nuking, 5/5 MAB merits): damage went from 1064 to 1117, so a 5% increase.

Just finished +2, same mob, pacts now dealing 1170, so a +10% increase in damage.

[Nightfyre]

I see the problem now in my explanation, but 1mab will always add the same amount of actual damage no matter how much mab you already have. I wouldn't call this "Diminishing Returns" but I don't write the dictionaries so I concede this point.

The problem is that you're trying to define returns with respect to the wrong value. You don't want to examine the numerical amount of damage added per nuke, you want to look at it as a % increase in damage compared to the amount you had previously (as mentioned, not relative to your baseline). In this context, it has diminishing returns.

INT has "diminishing returns" also.

Yup. Most stats do.

[grevenilvec75]

The problem is that you're trying to define returns with respect to the wrong value. You don't want to examine the numerical amount of damage added per nuke, you want to look at it as a % increase in damage compared to the amount you had previously (as mentioned, not relative to your baseline). In this context, it has diminishing returns.


Yup. Most stats do.

Which ones don't?

[Nightfyre]

Which ones don't?

Haste, Fast Cast, PDT, MDT, DW off the top of my head.

EDIT: Subtle Blow, evasion too.