Abyssea Discussion II: Finally, a reason to be Windurstian..

[Hanyoko]

80% of killspeed is pullspeed. I camp in the middle, man the fuck up, and kill everything.. not to mention I pay attention and don't waste any attack rounds swapping targets.. and probably have twice the gear you do.

The vast majority of pullers I see make me want to rage. Its not hard to bring a mob and drop it within a yalm or two of the one they are currently fighting. Besides that extremely slow main assists become a close second.

I guess its laziness on their part but I largely don't believe they realize how much that sluggishness impacts exp/hr ; lets just get it done so we can all leave earlier.

[Kaslo]

I can't stand rdm pullers who don't know how to run past the party before they start to sleep. This leads to mobs being slept further and further in due to melee that just run up to the next mob even if its in the middle of JA aggro mobs.

[fndragon]

Not true. Was farming mobs with BRD MNK DNC for a magian trial, note no azure kill. After an hour, I'd knocked off 205 of my kills for trial and gotten 19 ebon lights. TEs and top tier chests did not show up until near the end, if there were a bonus like that I would have seen them far earlier. I have every abyssite.

Another experience yesterday gave me a bit of information to validate my claim; I was soloing Escarp Murexes, which do not give ruby lights. I have two abyssites for "luck with red chests", and after a few kills solo, I got a chest with "Golden Light" in it, meaning it was a mid-to-high tier red chest. I did not finish with any WS kill, and I definitely did not open any red chests along the way. This leads me to believe that you do get a static amount of "light" based on the abyssites that you own on ever kill.

[Demonofhunger]

Just want to check something in case I missed some testing:

I keep hearing people say that not building Ruby lights means more Blue and Gold boxes (assuming azure and amber are being worked on).

This is not true, right?

In my experience you may not get red boxes in this situation, but you will get a lot more kills with no box and the exact same rate of Blue and Gold, but that's just my impression from eyeballing and I don't have anything to back it up.

[darkreign]

Question about this: we verified several times lately that this is 100% true, but my question is, does it also apply to the old Abyssea zones as well? I don't have the stones atm to test it.. would be amazing if it was true in those zones also.

I went yesterday in konshat kill 4 emphemeral mob with azure next mob drop blue chest with 600 cruor (not cap) and I have that abyssite that boost blue chest. So in old zone doesn't work.

[Thorny]

Another experience yesterday gave me a bit of information to validate my claim; I was soloing Escarp Murexes, which do not give ruby lights. I have two abyssites for "luck with red chests", and after a few kills solo, I got a chest with "Golden Light" in it, meaning it was a mid-to-high tier red chest. I did not finish with any WS kill, and I definitely did not open any red chests along the way. This leads me to believe that you do get a static amount of "light" based on the abyssites that you own on ever kill.

No, you don't. Go read around, there are reports of gold light on first kill in tahrongi without any abyssites.. the chests have anomalies. You don't get ruby light without getting a ruby kill, the abyssites either have a chance of adding a tier to the chest or multiply your light gained or (I think this is most likely) give you a set amount of light upon zoning in. I did all my magians in abyssea, have all abyssite(meaning: 2 copies of each of the chest enhancing abyssites..), and in about a dozen >150 mob farms(not using azure/amber kills) I never saw anything to indicate what you're saying. You collected a fact, good. You formed a hypothesis, good. Your hypothesis was proven wrong, this is where you go about the other valid hypotheses using your fact:

1. Abyssites have a chance of adding a tier to the chest. Having two of them can add two tiers, could explain your golden light.
2. Abyssites multiply your light gained. This has no impact on your fact, however, gold boxes have been reported with no light or abyssite before. You cannot rule this out yet.
3. Abyssites grant you a specific amount of light upon entering. Say 5 each. If you have both, 10 lights would make golden much more likely than 0.

[Holyman]

Another experience yesterday gave me a bit of information to validate my claim; I was soloing Escarp Murexes, which do not give ruby lights. I have two abyssites for "luck with red chests", and after a few kills solo, I got a chest with "Golden Light" in it, meaning it was a mid-to-high tier red chest. I did not finish with any WS kill, and I definitely did not open any red chests along the way. This leads me to believe that you do get a static amount of "light" based on the abyssites that you own on ever kill.

Gotta agree with this , same scenario happened to me the other day .

Explains how in regular EXP PT where I was the only one getting killshots , I got them TE after 15 kills out of the 30 kills they were counting to cap light , some RDM got the kill shot on 16th Azure kill , & he got lower tier EXP chest .

In my opinion you get static amount of light , & whatever abyssite you have , it doubles up the amount u get .

Kinda like how Abyssite of Acumen work , if u snap the killshot , u get highest tier chest with less numbers to guess than if someone w/o that abyssite get the killshot.

[Kilik]

The theory I had been going with for the abyssites is that they give you a chance at getting a higher tier chest of that color. For example, when the first Abyssea zones came out and ppl built fame for the blue chest abyssite, we had a LS member with abyssite get a killshot on the 5th or 6th mob of a farm run and it was a TE. Also, while doing my trials in Tahrongi on Bats (only give azure and pearl light), I randomly get big gold chests after opening maybe 3 amber light chests (have gotten big gold with 0 amber at all also). Because you can go from low tier chests, to a random high tier, and then back to low tier, it makes me think its just a % chance of producing a high tier chest.

[fndragon]

No, you don't. Go read around, there are reports of gold light on first kill in tahrongi without any abyssites.. the chests have anomalies. You don't get ruby light without getting a ruby kill, the abyssites either have a chance of adding a tier to the chest or multiply your light gained or (I think this is most likely) give you a set amount of light upon zoning in.

So I'm wrong, but your theory may be correct? I have also seen strange variances as well. I'd like to see your proof for the "give you a set amount of light upon zoning in". Because I know for a fact that when I zone in I am likely to pop a 2-lock blue chest, when I have all the abyssites for blue chest appearance. Wouldn't this run contrary to your theory?

It may be that we are arguing for two different sides of a random number generator. That your light accumulation doesn't guarantee any tier at all, it just increases the chance of high tier chests popping. For instance, I entered abysmisar today and got a "weak silvery light" red box after exactly 3 kills. This had a 10 range lock on it. After two more kills I got an "weak(?) azure light" red box with a range of 19. Now from what I understand, those are two different "tier" chests, but my red light didn't change, in fact the tier went down from when I entered. I suspect what happened is that I entered, my ruby light was at such a level where I had a chance of both things happening, and the higher tier popped first, and then the lower tier. This, (as with most things random) can't be proven by any hard-number theory on how lights work when you don't augment them by targetting a light, and can be equally explained by "you start with a set amount of light" vs. "you gain light incrementally through every kill" because the random number generator likes dicking with players.

I did all my magians in abyssea, have all abyssite(meaning: 2 copies of each of the chest enhancing abyssites..), and in about a dozen >150 mob farms(not using azure/amber kills) I never saw anything to indicate what you're saying. You collected a fact, good. You formed a hypothesis, good. Your hypothesis was proven wrong, this is where you go about the other valid hypotheses using your fact:

1. Abyssites have a chance of adding a tier to the chest. Having two of them can add two tiers, could explain your golden light.
2. Abyssites multiply your light gained. This has no impact on your fact, however, gold boxes have been reported with no light or abyssite before. You cannot rule this out yet.
3. Abyssites grant you a specific amount of light upon entering. Say 5 each. If you have both, 10 lights would make golden much more likely than 0.

I'm still looking for the "proof" that I'm wrong, if you have evidence I'd love to see it. 1) doesn't seem plausable, as I said, abyssites don't guarantee that you start at a higher chest rank than anybody else. 2) Abyssites might multiply the light gained, but I doubt it's a straight doubling. Also, it doesn't explain my curious gold chest observation. 3) I think we're converging on a solution here. Abyssites grant you a specific amount of light, but like most random number generators, you can't rely on that light helping since it just increases the range of available tiers of chests instead of increasing your minimum chest rank.

[fndragon]

Also, I noted today that quite a few people were soloing murexes and destroying the local population of them. They all respawned as DC - T however, so I doubt highly that frequency of kills in an area affects their repop level.

And when I say "destroying" I mean out of ~20 spawns there were only 5 up at a time, even with the repop timers.

[Thorny]

The time engaged effects repop level. Hence, manaburn that -ga kills 15 mobs in 90 seconds(+2min repop) produces DC mobs while a constantly engaged melee setup killing every 15 seconds will produce IT despite similar amounts of kills over time.

Proof? You don't fucking gain ruby light if you don't WS kill. I've done well over 1500 mobs for trials, and sustained a 24-hour long party that had no ruby light generated off kills or ruby chests opened during which I didn't get any noticable change to red boxes. Yes, I have the fucking abyssites. I gave you suggestions toward solving for what really happens with them, but 100% positive they do not give you light on any other type of kill. I didn't back up any of the theories, but yours isn't correct based on a significant enough sample to eliminate any luck factor.

[Zadimortis]

Based on my experience, here's the conclusions I've come to:

Your amount of light determines the range of probability that you will get a certain tier of chest. If you start with zero light (and no abyssites), your probability for getting the lowest tier chest is at its highest, and as you go up tiers the probability gets lower (say, 80% lowest tier, 10% next tier up, 5% next tier up, 2.5% next, etc.) As your light level increases, your "baseline" chest tier (i.e. the tier that you will get with the greatest probability) goes up. So, let's say that if you have accumulated ten lights, your tier 3 chest (assuming there are five tiers, for blues in this case) probability is 80%, with a small chance of getting higher or lower tiers. At 20 lights, you have the best chance of getting max tier chests, but still have a chance for getting lower tier ones. The lights you build from this point simply push that probability of getting the max tier chests incrementally higher, and eliminate the possibility of getting lower tier chests. It's why EXP groups that build up 20 Azure auras before switching to Pearlescent (no abyssites) do notably worse, because they still have a fair chance of getting chests of lower tier than max, whereas groups that build up 30 or so azures before moving to pearlescent get max tier chests far more often, because they have lowered the chance of getting lower tier chests by a notable amount.
The take-home point of this is that your light strength is not a straight-up bar line that determines what chest strength you get; rather, it determines the range of chest strength you will most likely get, with outliers on both sides (higher and lower tier). As you build up light strength past 30 or so, it simply lowers the chance of lower tier chests dropping, but does not eliminate it (this is why you sometimes see lower tier chests dropping in parties that have been going on for hours with no replacements).

The other purpose of building lights past that point is to determine which chest will drop on the kill. If you build up a significant amount of Ruby light over a long period, eventually it will overtake your amount of Azure light built up, and you will get more red pyxides to drop. Similarly with Azure and Amber. Pearlescent aura determines how frequently chests will drop; the ratio of your ruby/azure/amber lights determines what type of chest will drop. So if you want one type of chest to drop consistently, you should build up that aura strength for a good period of time.

As far as the Abyssites go, I'm fairly certain that each Abyssite gives you ~5-10 aura strength of that color to start with. Pretty damn sure that it doesn't enhance your rate of light buildup, nor does it give you any amount of "luck" with chest opening.


So yeah. That seems to factor in all my observations and outlying occurrences I've either witnessed or heard about, and hopefully it clears up some level of confusion (and bickering).

[Jeryhn]

As far as the Abyssites go, I'm fairly certain that each Abyssite gives you ~5-10 aura strength of that color to start with. Pretty damn sure that it doesn't enhance your rate of light buildup, nor does it give you any amount of "luck" with chest opening.

Back when people were first entering Abyssea, weren't there people noting that gold chests would drop without any amber light at all, pretty much before people realized the connections between elemental WS and amber light? I know I've personally seen red chests pop on a first kill in Abyssea without any built-up Ruby before and after Prosperity abyssites came into my inventory.

It seems to me that getting Visitant status nets you some sort of drop rate on chests by itself. Something very small, like 1-3% drop rate on any chest (as though the Visitant status is a single pearlescent light in itself). Then when the abyssites come into the mix, this base percentage is boosted to a certain level based upon the quantity of abyssites you carry, and are further active when you're "capped" on lights by preventing lower quality chests from appearing more often.

EDIT: In any case, there really shouldn't be any reason for anybody not to strive to have two Kismet abyssites at the very least in order to be a good party member. Very soon, people will not only be judged by the gear they're wearing, but also the key items they're carrying.

[fredjanx]

Well... just did Desert Rain I, and, like 6souls said...

Spoiler: show

[16:44:20]Begin cramming the provisions into your magicked flaxen sack?

[16:44:20]ü[16:44:20] Begin cramming the provisions into your magicked flaxen sack?

[16:44:23]You cram an elongated flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:23]ü[16:44:23] You cram an elongated flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:24]The magicked flaxen sack has managed to keep down its load.

[16:44:24]The magicked flaxen sack appears to be in perfectly sound condition.

[16:44:24]ü[16:44:24] The magicked flaxen sack appears to be in perfectly sound condition.

[16:44:26]You cram a triangular flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:26]ü[16:44:26] You cram a triangular flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:26]The magicked flaxen sack has managed to keep down its load.

[16:44:27]The magicked flaxen sack appears to be in perfectly sound condition.

[16:44:27]ü[16:44:27] The magicked flaxen sack appears to be in perfectly sound condition.

[16:44:28]You cram an elongated flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:28]ü[16:44:28] You cram an elongated flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:29]The magicked flaxen sack has managed to keep down its load.

[16:44:29]The magicked flaxen sack appears to be in perfectly sound condition.

[16:44:29]ü[16:44:29] The magicked flaxen sack appears to be in perfectly sound condition.

[16:44:30]You cram a triangular flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:30]ü[16:44:30] You cram a triangular flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:31]The magicked flaxen sack has managed to keep down its load.

[16:44:31]The magicked flaxen sack appears to be in perfectly sound condition.

[16:44:31]ü[16:44:31] The magicked flaxen sack appears to be in perfectly sound condition.

[16:44:32]You cram an elongated flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:32]ü[16:44:32] You cram an elongated flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:33]The magicked flaxen sack has managed to keep down its load.

[16:44:33]The magicked flaxen sack feels a little bit taut.

[16:44:33]ü[16:44:33] The magicked flaxen sack feels a little bit taut.

[16:44:34]You cram a triangular flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:34]ü[16:44:34] You cram a triangular flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:35]The magicked flaxen sack has managed to keep down its load.

[16:44:35]The magicked flaxen sack feels a little bit taut.

[16:44:35]ü[16:44:35] The magicked flaxen sack feels a little bit taut.

[16:44:37]You cram an elongated flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:37]ü[16:44:37] You cram an elongated flask into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:37]The magicked flaxen sack has managed to keep down its load.

[16:44:37]The magicked flaxen sack is showing signs of stretching.

[16:44:37]ü[16:44:37] The magicked flaxen sack is showing signs of stretching.

[16:44:40]You cram an oil cloth into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:40]ü[16:44:40] You cram an oil cloth into the magicked flaxen sack.

[16:44:40]The magicked flaxen sack has managed to keep down its load.

[16:44:40]The fabric of the magicked flaxen sack is squeaking under the tension.

[16:44:40]ü[16:44:40] The fabric of the magicked flaxen sack is squeaking under the tension.

[16:45:53]Resistance Sapper : Ah, you've returned.

[16:45:53]Without any ado, I will take the magicked flaxen sack off your hands.

[16:45:53]ü[16:45:53] Resistance Sapper : Ah, you've returned.

[16:45:53]ü[16:45:53] Without any ado, I will take the magicked flaxen sack off your hands.

[16:45:54]Resistance Sapper : I see you've managed to cram in a goodly amount of provisions. Well done.

[16:45:54]ü[16:45:54] Resistance Sapper : I see you've managed to cram in a goodly amount of provisions. Well done.

[16:45:54]Resistance Sapper : Here is your reward, pro rata with your performance.

[16:45:54]Our soldiers go through the ensorceled provisions as if there's no tomorrow...and that might just prove to be true. We would appreciate your assistance as often as you can afford it.

[16:45:54]ü[16:45:54] Resistance Sapper : Here is your reward, pro rata with your performance.

[16:45:54]ü[16:45:54] Our soldiers go through the ensorceled provisions as if there's no tomorrow...and that might just prove to be true. We would appreciate your 

[16:45:54]  assistance as often as you can afford it.

[16:45:55]Obtained 500 cruor. (Total: 490920)

[16:45:55]You obtain 60 Resistance Credits. (Total: 653)

tl;dr gave the thing flasks until it was stretching, then gave it a cloth for max points

[fndragon]

Based on my experience, here's the conclusions I've come to:

Your amount of light determines the range of probability that you will get a certain tier of chest. If you start with zero light (and no abyssites), your probability for getting the lowest tier chest is at its highest, and as you go up tiers the probability gets lower (say, 80% lowest tier, 10% next tier up, 5% next tier up, 2.5% next, etc.) As your light level increases, your "baseline" chest tier (i.e. the tier that you will get with the greatest probability) goes up. So, let's say that if you have accumulated ten lights, your tier 3 chest (assuming there are five tiers, for blues in this case) probability is 80%, with a small chance of getting higher or lower tiers. At 20 lights, you have the best chance of getting max tier chests, but still have a chance for getting lower tier ones. The lights you build from this point simply push that probability of getting the max tier chests incrementally higher, and eliminate the possibility of getting lower tier chests. It's why EXP groups that build up 20 Azure auras before switching to Pearlescent (no abyssites) do notably worse, because they still have a fair chance of getting chests of lower tier than max, whereas groups that build up 30 or so azures before moving to pearlescent get max tier chests far more often, because they have lowered the chance of getting lower tier chests by a notable amount.
The take-home point of this is that your light strength is not a straight-up bar line that determines what chest strength you get; rather, it determines the range of chest strength you will most likely get, with outliers on both sides (higher and lower tier). As you build up light strength past 30 or so, it simply lowers the chance of lower tier chests dropping, but does not eliminate it (this is why you sometimes see lower tier chests dropping in parties that have been going on for hours with no replacements).

The other purpose of building lights past that point is to determine which chest will drop on the kill. If you build up a significant amount of Ruby light over a long period, eventually it will overtake your amount of Azure light built up, and you will get more red pyxides to drop. Similarly with Azure and Amber. Pearlescent aura determines how frequently chests will drop; the ratio of your ruby/azure/amber lights determines what type of chest will drop. So if you want one type of chest to drop consistently, you should build up that aura strength for a good period of time.

As far as the Abyssites go, I'm fairly certain that each Abyssite gives you ~5-10 aura strength of that color to start with. Pretty damn sure that it doesn't enhance your rate of light buildup, nor does it give you any amount of "luck" with chest opening.


So yeah. That seems to factor in all my observations and outlying occurrences I've either witnessed or heard about, and hopefully it clears up some level of confusion (and bickering).

This is reasonable and does explain quite a bit. And it also makes testing "how many lights do you need" questions all the more difficult due to the inherent randomness of the light tiers.

[Dimmauk]

I was soloing Tonberries last night and this happend
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...015_212816.png

So if a Mob dies from DOT, it gives Pearl light?

[ronin sparthos]

Yeah, Pearl seems to be the catchall for anything that isn't directly magic damage, physical WS or magical WS.

[Yugl]

EDIT: In any case, there really shouldn't be any reason for anybody not to strive to have two Kismet abyssites at the very least in order to be a good party member. Very soon, people will not only be judged by the gear they're wearing, but also the key items they're carrying.

Ya, I'm going to judge someone on something I cannot verify.

As for the lights issue, this is why I run with the ratio idea. If you start with 1-1-1 for each light and kill a glowing dude, you'll net (made up numbers here) 10-1-1. There is still a chance for amber, but it is less likely than blue. Given problem at hand, I can probably test stuff if you wish to PM me your experiment (I will repost it here for others to verify) since I don't think I have ANY Gold/Red abyssites. However, that would only attest to the magnitude of the chest rather than the ratio, which would be much more difficult to test since findings in the DATS suggest a 1000 light limit. Supporting this latter notion, aside from the DAT evidence, is the fact that we ruby killed an Emeph mob and received Mild/Intense red boxes early on, but after a ton of Azure/Pearl/Amber kills on Murex, we started to receive only faint light red boxes.

[Plow]

Ya, I'm going to judge someone on something I cannot verify.

If they can auto-translate it they have it, if they can't they either don't have it or they're stupid as hell.

[Yugl]

If they can auto-translate it they have it, if they can't they either don't have it or they're stupid as hell.

All you need to do is have someone with the item autotranslate it. When they do, you hit space + tab and it should register within your autotranslates. Hence, if you know someone with the item, you can translate it beforehand (Put it in your search comment) and have it ready as "proof."