BG, what's your take on Turn Based Combat?

[Elcura]

I definitely like grinding more with a fun battle system, even if it's turn based. Really, your only concern right now should be whether your battle system, real time or not is any fun.

[Trichocyst]

I feel like turn based RPGs aren't as gratifying as they used to be, especially when developers try to use facets of MMORPG in console gaming. I really hated how much of a chore it was to get all of the ultimate weapons in FFX, for example. I'm not saying that everything should be handed to you, but there's got to be a middle ground. I've always felt the Suikoden games excelled because they didn't try to do too much and had amazing plot. They're not really difficult games, but getting everything maxed out is a challenge if you don't know any better. (More of a guide dang it, I know.)

I can't really find myself playing turn based RPGs on powerful consoles like PS3 or 360. At the same time, my favorite game with RPG elements for 360 is Fallout 3. The gameplay was amazing in that, but (IMHO) the story was mere afterthought. I feel like handheld consoles still have the best potential for turn based RPGs. Just feels right to me.

So, I'd still play them, but I feel like the genre needs an innovation leap into the next generation.

[Corrderio]

It doesn't bother me as long as it doesn't take forever to input your commands again.

Case and point. Lunar: Silver Star Harmony uses a turn based system, however with spell/ability spamming it can take forever before the round ends. I can put my PSP down and it will enter the first stage of sleep mode before everyone's done casting/etc.

[Dead Phoenix]

I'm all for turn based games, preferably without lame real time action gimmicks, some of them are ok(I enjoy shadow hearts 2 and the first Super Mario RPG), but others take it to far and you get a mess of a game with crappy turn based and real time systems(Valkyria Chronicles comes to mind, but I'm probably only on that one). In fact I'm actually not a fan of Action RPGs, as time went on the just got less and less interesting to me, with SoM still being my favorite today, and shit like KH(execpt Chain of memories for some reason) and Tales of series being the worst of the bunch(I don't even want to think about Fallout 3). That said I won't deny the Turn-based games need something to keep it interesting, one thing that I think they need to stop doing is the old 'Party members stand in a line over here, enemies stand over here' quite frankly I was disappointed that Skies of Arcadia's system(after the first turn no one just stood around waiting to get whacked they would engage is little skirmishes, didn't affect the battle, but it made it less boring to watch while picking your next moves)didn't get copied by every TB game after it.

[Corrderio]

You might like Lunar: SSH then. Since in that game you and the enemy move around. However it doesn't have as big of an impact as you'd think it would.

Funny thing is. When I was studying VB I was planning out an RPG in my head and of having a "grid" of sorts where you and the enemy move around. Think of FFT with a flat surface over the isometric one.

[Gokulo]

Turn based can be as fun as real time if you spice things up. I really liked Shadow Hearts battle system, I think SMT/DDS was cool too.

[arus2001]

TB is fine. If anything, don't leave out an auto-battle option with either customizable AI (like XII's Gambits) or at least modest standards (All Out, Focus on Healing, etc.) so those who might be tired of tapping auto-attack can just watch fight unfold (and likely in a manner that would frustrate them, heh).

[Arcien]

Used to love turn-based battle systems, now I grew tired of them. I find myself appreciating games like FFXIII, TWEWY and KH more while losing interest in oldschool FFs, BoF, Pokemon and such.
Perhaps it's just because they're too slow paced for my taste, made worse by the fact that I don't have all the time to play I used to have. I haven't played a single turn-based RPG that doesn't feel "slow" in years.

I agree totally with this.

[Araelus]

As expected I'm going to side with BRP here: choose between a reflex-rewarding system (realtime) or a planning-reward system (turns).

Then make that style of gameplay fun and challenging. Good luck.

From my perspective, the enjoyment of a turn-based system is it rewards me for planning ahead and thinking "what if my opponent does...?" Chess is a turn-based combat system (so are many board games.)

The enjoyment of a realtime system is being forced into acting within a closing span of time or being penalized. Speed Chess is very close to a realtime combat system. A better example is is épée fencing (or actual fighting.)

It should be clear that a turn-based system should not just let the turn-baser (um, eh) sit around and scratch their chin for hours without making a selection, but that's up to the programmers.

BlazBlue: RPG Stylin'

Spoiler: show

One idea that hasn't shown up a lot in realtime combat RPGs is having to input fighting-game style commands for attacks, spells, etc. Entries in the Tales series have something along these lines, letting the player map different commands to quick-key combinations. Was there something similar in Star Ocean 2? But I mean to have more than just A to cure, B to melee, that falls back into the whole "press X to win" boring mode.

But, what's your take on Turn Based Combat?
If you choose to go the turn-based route (which I personally prefer) do one of three two options:

-initiative system (static)
-initiative system (dynamic)
-find a way to use the patented Active Time Battle

Spoiler: show

That first one, which boils down to clicking "fight" "spell" "steal" "fight" then see what the enemies do, then repeat over and over again isn't fun, and usually precludes any deep kind of planning. So you can have the PCs and mobs go back and forth in order determined by Speed attribute and what action is chosen for them. Think of a round of combat from D&D.

Each action a player chooses for their character(s) and the comp. chooses for each mob/NPC takes a certain amount of time. This way the battle order is partially determined initially by fixed stats and afterwards determined by stat combined with the player/CPU selections. Battle order changes over the course of the fight.

If I remember correctly, it's been a while, Grandia 2 (mentioned by Kiarax) had something along those lines.

You can display, or not, the expected order of initiative to the player depending on their abilities, support, etc.

It's also your call on when and how commands are selected. Although if they're not chosen as the character's turn comes up, but in a clump all at once, it's kind of jarring. "WHY DIDN'T YOU CURE?" "Well I said five minutes ago I was gonna attack." "WTF?!"

Oh just shut up what about ATB?

Spoiler: show

The break-through of ATB is that everyone in combat acts a set number of times per time interval, which boils down to "once per turn". But ATB itself is actually patented...

Spoiler: show

1995-Feb-21
Disclosed in a video game of enhanced realism in which actual combat is closely simulated. The game is so adapted that an enemy character on a display screen may launch an attack against a player character on the same screen, even while the player character is in the process of inputting a command, at elapse of a set time period specific to the enemy character. The attack is made without an interruption in the flow of time of the game.

Ridiculous speculation on merging FFXII and XIII...

Spoiler: show

So only in Square games can the player get to see when that turn is ready with a little gauge, they can select an action before the gauge is full (or wait up for combo attacks <3 CT) etc. The most potentially exciting version of ATB, that remains challenging to play, would be to combine FFXII and XIII - fast paced rounds but with the player having total control over number of party members in manual/CPU, programmable AI tactic loops, battlespace movement, ok you get the idea.

How about them valkyrja?

Spoiler: show

In terms of a hybrid, you still must decide which major route to take.

Valkyrie Profile 2 falls on the reflex-rewarding side, even though the player could stop moving to assess the situation, it was otherwise realtime combat. Note you had to decide on what abilities to set before battle began.

Valkyria Chronicles (no relation) falls on the planning-reward side, where you have a set number of "turn tokens" as it were, but note that when you get to move a character then all the people ... well, all your opponents... get to react as your turn unfolds.

[Deadgye]

Tactics, LotD, FFX, etc, loved the battle systems in all of them. I like real time systems like Kingdom Hearts just as much however. Turn based systems usually allow for more depth of strategy since you have time to think stuff out. ATB is my least favorite of the three.

[Mjd]

Playing tactics on my laptop is so much different now...Fast forwarding battles makes it so much better.

<3 'em overall

[Julian]

I like turn based <_<

but the main thing that makes battles good, imo, is a good skill system. Like Jobs/JP in Tactics (although it was a bit too slow paced), can't really think of any other unique skill systems right now might edit later

[Gokulo]

Oh, btw. Legend of Legaia. Turn based yummy-ness.

[Tomino]

but the main thing that makes battles good, imo, is a good skill system.

I so much agree on this. I think what recent games have proven is how fun it is to work on customizing and "chaining" together all the different pieces and development paths, instead of a given number of spells to gain each level.

I'm reconsidering turn combat a lot, mostly because I would had expected it to be bashed a lot more than it actually happened. Maybe there's still a lot of life in it and it shouldnt be overlooked.

Also, given that I'll be working on handhelds, I take turn combat would represent something of a plus? You know, being able to move your attention elsewhere, anytime

[Lucavi]

Turnbased unless its going to be automated with strategic imput like Ogre Battle 64. God I loved that system. Set your shit up beforehand, give them basic tactics mid-battle like "kill the mages!" or "kill the weakest opponent!" and let em run wild.

[Hyan]

As long as the combat is tailored for handhelds- like, you could save often enough, a single fight doesn't last too long etc.