FFXIV Tactics: Understand The Fatigue System [VIDEO]

[Fanfon]

Who needs fruit?!

5 a day!

I don't really see the fatigue thing bothering me for the first few months though, I'm kinda pushing it with my time management anyway so it plays into my hands (ish).
btw, what's the restore rate on fatigue? 1hr per 1hr or 0.5hr per 1hr etc.?

[Gokulo]

No one knows.

[Anton]

I ran into fatigue on archer at around level 6, I was flying through xp, leves, and Aspect with my party. So I went to town and did the crafting leves (took about an hour), when I was done, I leveled Archer to 7.

Cool story, I guess. I don't know either.

[Charismatic]

So you're saying that you had a LV50 character in "a matter of weeks" in the beta, then?

I don't understand why you're even trying to make the distinction (other than an obvious attempt to dodge the question). No one gives a f*ck about FFXI beta and no one (besides you) commented on it. I said that the game (the RETAIL game, Einstein) was a grindfest and you starting spouting off some nonsense about how some Japanese players successfully avoided life for a few weeks and hit the cap, oh and BTW You Were In The FFXI Beta So Your Opinion Should Be Respected. Quite subtle there, Mr. Big Time.

In any case, your argument is fundamentally upside-down. We all recognize that in any given pool of MMO players, there are hardcore players who will play the game nonstop. According to you, even these hardcore, no-life players took multiple weeks to reach LV50 in FFXI retail. This is not a point in your favor.


Yeah, 20 hour sessions aren't really grinding as long as you don't know what you're doing!

I see the problem here: you appear to be talking about some other form of grinding that has nothing to do with extended marathon gaming sessions full of tedious, repetitive gameplay.

Who said anything about people playing for 20 hour sessions aside from you? Who said anything about beta meaning opinions need to be respected? Who said anything about marathon gaming? Only you... the only one that's making shit up to try to prove their point.

All I'm saying is plenty of people were able to get shit done, I know for a fact that in the beta (which had the same exp system as retail, followed the same rules as retail... was EXACTLY LIKE RETAIL except on a separate server so they could test localization shit) several people were able to hit 50 in a few weeks. I personally took about 6 weeks to hit it myself while working so there was no possibility of playing 20 hours a week. That aside, I was tutoring for middle school kids on the weekends and was still living with my parents who would not even allow me to play the damn game the entire time I was home. Even with those playtime restrictions I somehow hit 50 in less than 2 months and still had time to do stupid shit in-game like alliance up with a group of people in the mid-teens and kill a Tremor Ram, thinking we were the big shit. Running to Jeuno just because people were shocked that there was some empty city in "the middle of nowhere" and all sorts of shit that wasn't grinding.

FFXI on release was NOT a fucking hardcore grind. Sorry buddy.

[Gokulo]

Ugh wrong topic!

[Elrina]

That's what's sad about this whole thing. Not many can wrap their had around the fact that they would simply be impeded in other ways if not this way. They are just used to the other ways.

What's the difference? Taking 2 months to grind to 50 because of barriers put up in the leveling process, or taking 2 months to grind to 50 because of a steep exp-curve?

I don't know, I've mostly come around from being one of those totally against surplus to not really caring too much one way or another. I won't have the time to really be pushing things this time around anyway, and even though I usually like to grind out on one job/class at a time, I kinda want to spread that around too, even without the restrictions. I don't know if it was you guys here on BG arguing that convinced me, or if I just stopped caring about it on my own, but there it is.

I don't really see it being much of an issue for anyone until our efficiency at exping increases (which could be days or weeks or months, I don't know). Regardless, I still think they would be better served with doing it differently simply because it kinda feels wrong. They're trying to prove that they're going to be different this time around, with XIV, yet when given the option to use an exp management system that restricts or rewards to achieve (admittedly) the same purpose, they choose one that restricts. It's the appearance of it, not the actual experience of it, that is the biggest issue. They could have done something new that felt rewarding while playing, even if it did the same thing, and it very well may have had the opposite effect on us that surplus did.

[darkblade77]

Who said anything about people playing for 20 hour sessions aside from you? Who said anything about beta meaning opinions need to be respected? Who said anything about marathon gaming? Only you... the only one that's making shit up to try to prove their point.

All I'm saying is plenty of people were able to get shit done, I know for a fact that in the beta (which had the same exp system as retail, followed the same rules as retail... was EXACTLY LIKE RETAIL except on a separate server so they could test localization shit) several people were able to hit 50 in a few weeks. I personally took about 6 weeks to hit it myself while working so there was no possibility of playing 20 hours a week. That aside, I was tutoring for middle school kids on the weekends and was still living with my parents who would not even allow me to play the damn game the entire time I was home. Even with those playtime restrictions I somehow hit 50 in less than 2 months and still had time to do stupid shit in-game like alliance up with a group of people in the mid-teens and kill a Tremor Ram, thinking we were the big shit. Running to Jeuno just because people were shocked that there was some empty city in "the middle of nowhere" and all sorts of shit that wasn't grinding.

FFXI on release was NOT a fucking hardcore grind. Sorry buddy.

I'm sorry, I'm getting tired of reading this drivel. The biggest timewaster in XI was logistics, so obviously static groups who had figured out a camp that wasn't optimal but didn't make them wipe every 2 pulls progressed quickly in the long run. That's nowhere close to the average's player's experience, LS or no LS, because how prohibitive and necessary having full groups and getting them to the middle of nowhere without "random player X bowing out/taking a break/etc" was. It had very little to do with how efficient any individual was at playing the game(although obviously being shitty in gameplay that slow would exacerbate things).

If you want to keep pretending that XI's launch wasn't a grind, more power to you, but anyone else who was there already knows you're full of it.

[Hyan]

Well yeah, when you got to actually exping it wasn't nearly as grindy as it could have been..

But it was so erratic and you spent more time doing other things than exping that it felt like some massive grind at times.

[darkblade77]

If 'hardcore' meant having 5 other 'hardcore' people on lock with you, I can see XI being an average time/reward game. But the environment and just pool of people you had to work with 100% ensured that if you had less than, say, 4, you're going to be wasting hours doing nothing like everyone else.

[Ksandra]

I like how everyone keeps saying grind, and then domon argues about "hardcore grind". I think he's preparing to

[Spider-Dan]

Who said anything about people playing for 20 hour sessions aside from you?

It's called making a point. When talking about games that are grind-centric, your argument that "some people got to the LV50 cap in a matter of weeks" is greatly mitigated by the relevant fact that some people play all day, every day.

This would be as opposed to your (continued!) citing of the FFXI beta, which has f*ck-all to do with anything.

Who said anything about beta meaning opinions need to be respected?

Why else do you keep mentioning the XI beta? No one cares about it and it isn't relevant to the discussion. If you want to claim that XI is not grindtastic, talk about retail; no one is impressed by your "I was in the beta!!!" namedropping.

All I'm saying is plenty of people were able to get shit done, I know for a fact that in the beta [...]

No.
One.
Cares.
About.
FFXI.
Beta.

Talk about retail or STFU.

[darkblade77]

I like how everyone keeps saying grind, and then domon argues about "hardcore grind". I think he's preparing to

There were plenty of 'hardcore' players in XI that had all the time in the world and played their classes like champs, that spent months to hit cap because they didn't have a set party/makeup of other people like them to pick up the pace later on, and instead spent 4-5 hours LFGing or spending 4-5 hours in various groups that didn't actively kill things for more than half an hour each before some delay held them back. Not everyone can play a BRD or a healer to ensure they at least get invites, either.

This 'hardcore' semantics argument was busted from the beginning. Being a 'hardcore player' has next to nothing to do with how fast you could progress in the game, and saying the level of time you spend playing to hit cap in XI could be faster "if you didn't suck at the game" or w/e is asinine.

[Anton]

This is getting crazy. How bout this, BG

I'm curious: EVE's real-time based system or FFXIV's Surplus/Fatigue? Which is better for Hardcore? Casuals? Why is this an unfair comparison? or completely the same?

If XIV is going to limit the amount you can grind one job in a period of time, then subscribing longer is therefore a prerequisite for a higher lvl. Isn't EVE's system is thus exactly the same, minus the actual work... why weren't we so polarized there?

[Correction]

ITT: People defending an EXP/unit of time cap like it's a good thing. Again. In before another mod locks it before anybody can realize what awful rpg design this is.

[Hyan]

ITT: People defending an EXP/unit of time cap like it's a good thing. Again. In before another mod locks it before anybody can realize what awful rpg design this is.

Too bad there is nothing to realize.

Except for you of course, but not like there's any hope about that.

[Correction]

http://i56.tinypic.com/24w6cjm.gif

The OP lashes out at 'naysayers' as if there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with forcing someone who reaches the cap to repeat exactly every segment of content he just did again for skill points in another discipline if he wishes to keep progressing his character for that week. Behold my new final fantasy game.

http://i53.tinypic.com/etb1ix.jpg

You get one of these every week. Oh you got tired? Have two differently colored cars, you won't get a new track till your week is up!

[quannum]

ITT: the fatigue system is good because se could have fucked us even harder.

[Hyan]

The OP lashes out at 'naysayers' as if there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with forcing someone who reaches the cap to repeat exactly every segment of content he just did again for skill points in another discipline if he wishes to keep progressing his character for that week. Behold my new final fantasy game.

Just what I thought, you have nothing new to say.

A hint: This wasn't a good argument before, it is not a good argument now.

You just come in with your cocky attitude and repeat the same things we've been talking about for the past 7 pages (and threads). Man you're awesome.

[Ksandra]

The OP lashes out at 'naysayers' as if there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with forcing someone who reaches the cap to repeat exactly every segment of content he just did again for skill points in another discipline if he wishes to keep progressing his character for that week. Behold my new final fantasy game.

it's like...SE's has never done this....oh wait:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sub_Job

[Correction]

I love the fatigue system.

When you're wrong, someone telling you you're wrong over and over again may make them repetitive, but it doesn't make you any less wrong.

it's like...SE's has never done this....oh wait:

I missed the part where I had to stop levelling BRD to level MNK, Alchemy and Chocobo Digging from 37-49 because I ran out of exp points.