FFXIV Tactics: Understand The Fatigue System [VIDEO]

[Hyan]

When you're wrong, someone telling you you're wrong over and over again may make them repetitive, but it doesn't make you any less wrong.

You're making me feel useless here.

It's certainly hilarious how you come here and tell me I'm wrong when it is quite obvious you haven't even read the thread, not to mention watched the vid in question.

[Correction]

You're making me feel useless here.

It's more than a feeling

[Hyan]

It's like Domon Kasshu all over again

"Der is no benefit to surplus system hurr durr"

[Ksandra]

When you're wrong, someone telling you you're wrong over and over again may make them repetitive, but it doesn't make you any less wrong.



I missed the part where I had to stop levelling BRD to level MNK, Alchemy and Chocobo Digging from 37-49 because I ran out of exp points.

nothing is forcing you to do crafts for melee jobs.

On archer I've really only got three subs I need to lvl.

You're being silly, and I'm starting to think you didn't even watch the video.

It would have taken you just as long with an xp curve.

[Correction]

nothing is forcing you to do crafts for melee jobs.

On archer I've really only got three subs I need to lvl.

You're being silly, and I'm starting to think you didn't even watch the video.

It would have taken you just as long with an xp curve.

I watched the video. They offer the illusion of levelling a dozen other things when you run into the wall on your primary, when in reality only 1-2 of those things will be genuninely applicable to your primary desired task in your selected discipline/class. I wonder why you ever brought up the subclass comparison when it's nowhere near the same thing. You could level a new subjob from 1-49 without stopping. You can't level a secondary class in FFXIV the same way, you HAVE to stop, and all that's left for you is 1-2 things before the weekly timer resets. That's not freedom and that's not revolutionary. It's just bad.

[miokomioko]

The bitching is by people who are bitching just to bitch.

In this game's system, completely regardless of fatigue, leveling multiple classes semi-simultaneously is highly beneficial for all classes involved. What's the point of crying about it unless you're simply someone who needs to hit the level cap as soon as you can to prove the size of your penis (read: the massive amount of free time you have)?

You could blah blah blah without stopping.

See what I mean?

all that's left for you is 1-2 things before the weekly timer resets.

What?

[Hyan]

I watched the video.

Alright, next task: Pay attention while watching said video.

[Correction]

highly beneficial

Look at it from the perspective of someone who isn't starting from scratch, a year or so from now. You have your shit solid and capped and ready, and suddenly something neat is introduced to a secondary class you have at baseline. Fatigue sound like a good thing now?

I am completely out of on-topic things to say.

Yeah.

[Ksandra]

I watched the video. They offer the illusion of levelling a dozen other things when you run into the wall on your primary, when in reality only 1-2 of those things will be genuninely applicable to your primary desired task in your selected discipline/class. I wonder why you ever brought up the subclass comparison when it's nowhere near the same thing. You could level a new subjob from 1-49 without stopping. You can't level a secondary class in FFXIV the same way, you HAVE to stop, and all that's left for you is 1-2 things before the weekly timer resets. That's not freedom and that's not revolutionary. It's just bad.

Most people have said through testing that it has taken them into the lvl 20s before they've even started to feel the fatigue on them. On top of that, and let me bold this since you're failing in this thread:


the dev's said on release the fatigue system was going to take way longer to hit than it is in beta

The subclass is a comparison, because you could have taken that sub from 1-49, but THAT SUB would have had a gimp subjob unless you took the time to lvl it. So while the game mechanics let you, the community probably wouldn't invite you, unless they were desperate. Now it's SE saying "no gimps" instead of the players. Ontop of the fact you were bitching about having to do it all over again for abilities, which wtf is exactly what the sub job system was for as well.

[miokomioko]

You have your shit solid and capped and ready, and suddenly something neat is introduced to a secondary class you have at baseline. Fatigue sound like a good thing now?

That situation would only arise for those who refuse to play the game how it was meant to be played. There's not going to be a class that normally had NOTHING for your class, and all-of-a-sudden has something you absolutely need.

it's SE saying "no gimps" instead of the players.

This, exactly. "Casual" players will only have time to level one class, eventually reaching cap while being entirely gimp ability/trait-wise. "Hardcore" players will have the opportunity to take multiple jobs to the cap in the same amount of time, resulting in none of the classes being gimp because they all share abilities/traits with eachother.

[Hyan]

Yeah.

Gee, at least Domon actually bothered to re-watch it before coming back here.

1:40

[Correction]

those who refuse to play the game how it was meant to be played.

There's not going to be a class that normally had NOTHING for your class, and all-of-a-sudden has something you absolutely need.

Neither of these points survived the test of time with FFXI. I'm predicting an identical outcome for XIV.

the dev's said on release the fatigue system was going to take way longer to hit than it is in beta

I also find it kind of interesting how much unshaken faith FFXI veterans are placing in the words of the FFXIV dev team, and what exactly has happened to garner said faith. Since when did what the dev team said was the limit of what was possible with their games actually predict what eventually becomes possible in their game?

[Elrina]

Railroad much? We've all watched the video. I don't know about you guys, but I had completely understood how surplus works before watching it. It was pretty and well made, and is good to help inform those who were not aware of how it worked.

Like I said before, I personally don't really care anymore. I've come to the realization that if I did then I might as well not play, because it's not going anywhere. And it may be even less of an issue come retail than it's been in beta, which will be nice.

That doesn't change the fact that it's an experience management system that is built around restricting players. That is bad game design. Especially when it's supposed to be enhancing "freedom".

Yes, intelligent, "hardcore" players would most likely be exping several classes anyway, because it will be to our ultimate benefit. But we could, and should, be able to make that choice ourselves, not be forced into it. Requiring us to do so instead of allowing us the freedom to choose to do so ourselves is an unnecessary restriction when there are alternative methods of governing experience growth.

What makes it worse is that we now know our stats apply to all four disciplines, crafting and gathering included. So we're restricted instead of rewarded to govern our advancement, and while the current stat reallocation ability in the field is a cool and good idea for our ability to adjust tactics to a situation, the lack of any ability to do a full reallocation when changing disciplines, even in town with a 1, 12, 24, or even 48 hour cooldown, is not there. So again, we're restricted from having the option to min/max fully, because we will eventually reach a level of efficiency that will have us hitting surplus (otherwise what is the point of it being there at all?), yet we're restricted from having the option to do a full stat change at any time without a good deal of time devoted strictly to it as well.

You see, what I do care about (not that you care), is that every time someone expresses frustration or dislike in the topic for the subject they get railroaded. It's not just arguments based on why the system is good or enjoyable, although they're there. It's insults, mocking, when it's clearly a controversial subject. I haven't heard any "new" arguments being used for surplus either.

Ultimately, whether the system impacts us in retail or not, it's a system designed to restrict rather than reward in a game that people pay to play. I can not see how that is a good thing.

[miokomioko]

it's an experience management system that is built around restricting players. That is bad game design.

I was following you until this. Just because people have gotten used to a restriction doesn't mean it's not a restriction anymore. It is evidence that one does not know anything about game design when they think restricting players in some way automatically means bad design.

I was playing Crash Bandicoot and I couldn't leave the path that the levels are based on. BAD GAME DESIGN.

I know the whole "sandbox" game design has been prevalent in these last years but it is not the epitome of good game design. While some players prefer no direction at all, a lot of players prefer direction. This is the entire basis of the tired WRPG vs JRPG argument.

[quannum]

I was playing Crash Bandicoot and I couldn't leave the path that the levels are based on. BAD GAME DESIGN.

I was playing Crash Bandicoot and I couldn't move further to the right in the level after 8 hours. But that's okay because sony wants you to get 8 hours into every level per week, rather than finishing one then going to the next .. or having the freedom to do it either way.

[Charismatic]

I like how everyone keeps saying grind, and then domon argues about "hardcore grind". I think he's preparing to

No, actually... I say hardcore grind because every MMO has some grind.
If you don't want to grind, you're probably not a MMO player. It definitely deserves to have a distinction there. FFXI wasn't a hardcore grind in terms of EXPing 1-50... ever. Period.
If you want to bring up other aspects of the game, I give less than a fuck because this topic is in relation to surplus which only has any effect on your character's growth. If you want to talk about gathering people for parties or making money, I don't give a shit. It's irrelevant to this conversation.
If any of you spent more than a 3-4 hours a day exping and didn't hit 50 in a matter of weeks... you were doing it wrong. Period.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Once again: You cannot compare prgression of any old console game with the prgression of an MMORPG. One type of game has a finite end and the other does not, among other reasons.

[darkblade77]

No, actually... I say hardcore grind because every MMO has some grind.
If you don't want to grind, you're probably not a MMO player. It definitely deserves to have a distinction there. FFXI wasn't a hardcore grind in terms of EXPing 1-50... ever. Period.
If you want to bring up other aspects of the game, I give less than a fuck because this topic is in relation to surplus which only has any effect on your character's growth. If you want to talk about gathering people for parties or making money, I don't give a shit. It's irrelevant to this conversation.
If any of you spent more than a 3-4 hours a day exping and didn't hit 50 in a matter of weeks... you were doing it wrong. Period.

Oh lord.

Please continue to make up numbers to support your fantasy argument. I'll get the popcorn.

[Hyan]

I was playing Crash Bandicoot and I couldn't move further to the right in the level after 8 hours. But that's okay because sony wants you to get 8 hours into every level per week, rather than finishing one then going to the next .. or having the freedom to do it either way.

Instead of making you clear the same level for 8 hours with one character to advance (which would take you a week, if you're not a no-lifer) and give you one bonus ability for doing so, Naughty Dog made the level take 1 hour to clear, plus you can do it with 7 different characters that each give you a different bonus ability that are pretty much required on the next level anyway. This process on the whole would take 8 hours.

Man this is fun.

[DrRuler]

Oh god why are there so many people acting so retarded here? 2 points keep getting brought up that are completely fucking false...

-8 hours until I stop getting EXP! OH GOD SE SUX QQ IMA PLAY GO WoW NOW!

EXP BEGINS DECAY at 8 hours IT ISN'T A FUCKING WALL!

-I can only level 8 hours a week on the job I love! THIS GAME SUX FUCK YOU PEOPLE!

There are two major problems with that statment:
#1 The previously mentioned beginning of decay not dead stop to EXP
#2 If you actually played the fucking beta you'd notice as the video also stated the decay goes back to normal at any time you are not playing. You get closer to 2-3 hours of playtime on any given class per day without suffering massive amounts of decay, as whenever you are not playing said class you are having your decay lessen.

It's like the morons in this thread played the game for 15 hours on opening day of beta and never touched it again. if you play the game like you normally do FFXI you'll barely ever notice the skill decay affecting your level(rank/skill whatever we are calling it now...) up rate. Hardcore players do not play FFXI for 15 hours every day of the week, they log on, beat the shit out of stuff for a few hours then log off unless they need to do Salvage/HNM.