FFXIV Tactics: Understand The Fatigue System [VIDEO]

[Celeras]

Look at it from the perspective of someone who isn't starting from scratch, a year or so from now. You have your shit solid and capped and ready, and suddenly something neat is introduced to a secondary class you have at baseline. Fatigue sound like a good thing now?

That situation would only arise for those who refuse to play the game how it was meant to be played. There's not going to be a class that normally had NOTHING for your class, and all-of-a-sudden has something you absolutely need.

Yeah man, expansions don't exist and the 7 initial classes will be all the game ever has to offer. Why the fuck aren't you banned yet? Someone get Rata his mod powers back.

[miokomioko]

Yeah man, expansions don't exist and the 7 initial classes will be all the game ever has to offer. Why the fuck aren't you banned yet? Someone get Rata his mod powers back.

Was my response about entirely new classes being added or just new abilities being added to existing classes? You seem to be a little bit confused about how it's highly unlikely that there will be additions to the game that will leave someone with 1 single class to work on and frequent fatigue inhibiting that one activity without players' already unwise decisions, over a long period of time, directly putting themselves in that situation.

Banned? lol... For what? I'm only arguing with people who can't get their heads out of their asses regarding what equates good/bad game design is and whether they have any real reason to cry foul and sling bullshit misconstrued embellishments about, other than it being a leveling system that doesn't, from very first glance, follow the standard (expected) format... It, ultimately, has the same effect.

[Spider-Dan]

I honestly don't believe at to be true either, I don't think it's the game's design that forced people to stand in towns rather than duo/trio like I and several others I know did.

So now you're claiming that you "duo/trioed" and were making "3k/hr"... in the retail game. In 2003.

It's hard to even begin to explain how completely idiotic that claim is. Either you have been wasting everyone's time with unlabeled Stories Of A Beastmaster's Life this whole time (2003 BST = the grindiest job in existence), or you're simply a liar. No one on this forum believes that you were trioing 3k/hr on non-BST jobs in 2003. NO ONE.

[Spider-Dan]

The criticisms don't ignore it, they target it directly. In FFXI and just about every other RPG to date, how fast you leveled was a function of how efficient in exp gain you could be per unit of time.

Wrong. This is your fundamental problem.

How fast you level is a function of the total exp TNL designated by the developers.

At no point have you even attempted to address exactly how the TNL amounts are determined, or how the exp curve is set. I imagine this is because your argument immediately turns to dust; it's hard to argue that lack of surplus is "true freedom" when TNLs are a completely arbitrary number autocratically declared by the devs!

I'll say it again: you cannot level up faster than the devs think you should.

FFXIV turns that on its head, capping your efficiency with arbitrary time boundaries.

TNLs are arbitrary xp totals! How is this any different?

It was fun in FFXI trying to figure out how to make the most of your exp/hour. It'll be fun again in FFXIV, but knowing that boundary is there saps my enthusiasm for the task, especially as I look towards bringing up skill points in disciplines unrelated to a primary class I'm going to cap out first.

This is absurd. Faster exp is faster exp: if you can get 8 hours of exp in 6 hours, guess what? You now have 2 hours to use for anything else!

Your entire line of logic is broken. To appease you, all SE would have to do is remove surplus, multiply TNLs by 100, then put an NPC in the game who can give you a 100x xp bonus once per class per week. Now you're free to waste as much time as you want doing nothing of consequence!

YOU CANNOT LEVEL UP FASTER THAN THE DEVS THINK YOU SHOULD. PERIOD.

[Charismatic]

No one on this forum believes that you were trioing 3k/hr on non-BST jobs in 2003. NO ONE.

lol

[Anton]

The rofls are reaching critical mass. Lock senses tingling.

There are many successful MMOs that actively limit how much you can advance in a certain time frame, rather than passively though XP requirements. This is SE's first foray into the former, and it's a lot less restrictive than certain people are assuming. Has anyone addressed the increased gains on everything you do? Not important I guess.

Fatigue complements XIV pretty well through its design. Don't knock it without considering the complementary mechanics in the game.

[Elcura]

This topic is great, I'll be sad if they lock it.

[isladar]

I'm more than a little tired of watching the same five people regurgitate their arguments all over this thread. We've read, and re-read your charming methods of discussion for three pages now. That is enough.

[Kaylia]

Why the hell would that be a bad thing?

Besides, there's more than just getting that rank up. Equipment, crafting, subjobs, probably genkais and other quests as well, helping LS buddies out with story missions and unlocking their gear, etc... Heck, I'd be fucking disappointed if it only took 2-3 months.

Why is it a bad thing when it takes more than 3 months to reach level cap? Because most people don't like wasting so much time before seeing what endgame has to offer.

There won't be more areas and contents to explore if you level slowly, it's just going to be spread over month instead of weeks, instead of days. Three months seem to be a reasonable amount of time to cover what the game has to offer before endgame, more than that most likely mean you will be wasting your time doing stupid shit (because I seriously doubt there will be more than 3 months worth of quests and mission)

[Hyan]

There won't be more areas and contents to explore if you level slowly

If SE implements them, there will be.

Endgame focused games have the problem that their low-midgame is seen as a hindrance, simply because developers won't bother with content people will soon surpass anyway.

That does not have to be the norm.

[Blasta]

Pretty cool video and easy to understand. So far im liking the idea, though i guess it sucks if you really enjoy playing a class and you suddenly have to change classes. I guess we'll see on 22nd of september how it works in the game itself. *Excited*

P.S, Hyan, it always seems that wherever i post, my post is always under yours. You post too mucho

[miokomioko]

i guess it sucks if you really enjoy playing a class and you suddenly have to change classes.

At least it's designed so it will never be "suddenly." You'll be able to make a judgement about at what point is the exp/time not worth it and you would be better off learning new traits/abilities/spells on a different class to make the class you like even better.

[Kaylia]

If SE implements them, there will be.

Endgame focused games have the problem that their low-midgame is seen as a hindrance, simply because developers won't bother with content people will soon surpass anyway.

That does not have to be the norm.

The rate at which SE implement stuff won't be higher if you level slower..what are you smoking.

[Hyan]

Yeah, but they can implement stuff for low-midgame, if they tune the game that way.

Especially if you start later on, you're much better off as the company has had time to flesh out midgame even further.

Of course it would be a bad idea to only focus on midgame, but the more they do, the more they can make people spend their time there.

3 months.. a year.. depends on what there is to do, and the longer we stay in mid-game, the more reason SE has to flesh it out.

[Lucavi]

Yeah, but they can implement stuff for low-midgame, if they tune the game that way.

Especially if you start later on, you're much better off as the company has had time to flesh out midgame even further.

Of course it would be a bad idea to only focus on midgame, but the more they do, the more they can make people spend their time there.

3 months.. a year.. depends on what there is to do, and the longer we stay in mid-game, the more reason SE has to flesh it out.

People spent time in mid-game in FFXI just fine, and they did it through leveling their subjobs. If I took Warrior and Paladin to level cap in Vanilla FFXI, then RotZ came out, I was able to experience the new mid-game content by leveling my next job... say monk or something. I got to go to the jungle and XP there, the desert and XP there, ect. That was the mid-game content.

I don't know what other kind of mid-game content you could be talking about, because FFXI consisted of:

A) Zones.
B) Quests for Expansion Storylines/Nations/Jobs/Repeatable and Non-repeatable reputation gains.

That was it. That was the mid-game. That was practically the ENTIRE game until you hit end-game, which is where all of the content was back-loaded into.

I can't see FFXIV being any different, aside from throwing levequests in the mix. The problem is that since they want you to level everything at the same time, or at least 3-4 jobs together and raise them all slowly, you're going to conceivably have more jobs at higher level ranges faster than they'll be putting out new areas and content.

They're going to release new continents during expansion packs,if we're lucky, and if not, we might see a few zones that were coded in getting released between expansion packs, and expansion packs aren't coming twice a year. At best, we're looking at a year and a half between packs. In a year and a half, many of us BGers will be able to level just about every "main" job we'll want to to whatever cap exists - level 50, for the sake of discussion. If SE waits until the first expansion to "add additional mid-level content", then we could feasibly miss that mid-level content with far more jobs than we could have through FFXI's system.

I don't see SE unlocking tons of new zones every 3 months during their content upgrades. Its a possibility, like they're doing with WoTG, but will we see that right off the back with the vanilla release of FFXIV? I wouldn't put my money on it.

[Hyan]

I'm not talking about FFXI.

I'm not probably even talking about FFXIV.

I'm talking about a hypothetical situation that could happen, and it wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion.

But yes, the earlier you start playing, and the faster you hit the cap, the more chance there is that you'll miss said midlevel content (and be stuck waiting for endgame content).

[Lucavi]

Its the "price" you pay for getting to experience the game before others, and for being able to act haughty 2 years later when you're lamenting about the "good ol' days" before all the "n00bs and casuals" came and mucked up the game.

But why are you talking in hypotheticals? Wouldn't it be more prudent to talk realistically about the game/s that we'll actually be playing?

[Hyan]

Well, I was responding to Kaylia, who was talking hypothetically too.

If we're talking about XIV.. I don't really know what's gonna happen.

Either way, you forgot BCNM's from the list. And yeah, well, they also had failed/now forgotten experiments like garrison, eco warrior and expeditionary force.

Much later on came stuff like field of valor NM's and such. Systems like MMM could be played at any level past 10 too. I honestly don't know what they're gonna do.

[Lucavi]

I took out all forms of "fighting", because they really overlap one another. You're either fighting mobs for XP, or you're fighting mobs for items. The fighting aspect, at least for mid-game, is redundant.

IMO, the sooner they put out a "Campaign 2.0" in FFXIV, the better. I know I personally invested a lot of time in the system, because I enjoy systems (in all games - watch mode ftw) that involve more than just yourself doing all the work. I hear the new forms of campaign in WoTG are rather interesting, and provide some good loot, so I'm really hoping they keep passing the baton with Campaign-esque systems.

Edit: I leave out besieged because it basically turned the zone into a glorified lag-fest, although it did pave the way for large-scale cooperative battles and less of a "ME FIRST!" attitude when it came down to combat.

[Hyan]

Well, that depends on the events themselves. The more complicate/hard they are, the more they stand out from your normal grinding.

A change of pace is hardly "redundant" =/. It doesn't have to be even that different to make you feel like you're doing something else than leveling.

I wonder what SE will do with Campaign here, I always felt like they couldn't do what they really wanted in XI.