FFXIV Tactics: Understand The Fatigue System [VIDEO]

[miokomioko]

There's nothing wrong with the system at all. It just bunches the panties of stupid people because you're essentially being forced to play the way you should/would be playing anyways. Taking away someone's freedom to do something they probably wouldn't do anyways will always piss them off.

I still think it should never hit a 0-EXP wall. -75% tops.

[Kaylia]

How can someone note that this system 'places limits on you' and in the same video say that the system 'promotes freedom'?
I hope you guys eat this right on up for Square's sake but... it's not revolutionary (been tried and failed before) and it doesn't promote freedom in any way.

I was about to post the same thing...his last statement is so wrong it's almost funny.

Personally, I don't mind the system that much (as long there is always something to do ingame). I just hope it wont takes more than 2-3 months to reach level cap...anything more would be a little stupid imo.

[zephys]

I think it's funny people act as if the "time zink" of a levelling curve isn't in XIV because now it has "fatigue" - which totally isn't a time sink >.>
Levelling will probably be faster than XI, but even withough fatigue/'bonus' (as it's now called) I doubt it would be as fast as say World of Warcraft, which we ofc laugh and point fingers at for having a silly time sink which just makes it take much too long.

The speed at which you travel from location to location is a time sink as well. The number of hit men you have to shoot to make it to the boss in your fps is a time sink as well.
But time sinks, or "pacing" if you will, is what makes a game enjoyable and feel like you earn your rewards.

The problem with the system in XIV is it punishes people to achieve its goals and punishing people is a big no-no in game design unless you have a really good reason for it - the player screwed up, basically.
Did players screw up for playing a class too much? I would hope even SE would say no to that.
It's not about being forced to do something you wouldn't do normally, the problem is being forced to do something that you would and that should feel fun.
Being forced to visit grandma is a sure fire way to get you to dislike visiting her. Kids feeling food is forced to eat the things on their plates is what creates picky eaters. It's basic psychology and basic in any design process and SE are getting it wrong.
Players should feel it's their own idea to change class so when they see the supposed rewards they can feel good about themselves.

This video is probably close to what SE wish they were saying, but it's in no way balanced, in depth or enlightening.
It's just bling agitation for our lord and saviour SE who will remove the evil time sinks and give us freedom via tangible limits xD

[Celeras]

"Revolutionary ... Freedom" got me, never laughed so hard

Makes me think we've all been trolled.

[Gokulo]

The way the video was made is great though, to think it's just a fan-made thing - has a better value than those Eorzea videos ;p
The guys who made it should find a better use for their talents.

[Vimes]

I just hope it wont takes more than 2-3 months to reach level cap...anything more would be a little stupid imo.

Why the hell would that be a bad thing?

Besides, there's more than just getting that rank up. Equipment, crafting, subjobs, probably genkais and other quests as well, helping LS buddies out with story missions and unlocking their gear, etc... Heck, I'd be fucking disappointed if it only took 2-3 months.

[SephYuyX]

ITT people who have no life complain. This game is already 50x easier and faster to level up than it was in XI, even with this fatigue system. I guess some people really do just expect everything to be handed to them.

Was an awesome video.

[Izzy]

Hey, I heard you wanted the freedom to EXP at your own pace, without limitations and bullshit catering to casuals. Boy have I got a game for you!

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/702/62943150.png

Enjoy your mindless grinding .5% EXP/Hour and losing 1% every time you die!

[SephYuyX]

I cant wait till 10,000,000x Rate free servers come out for XIV.

[Antithesis]

ITT people who have no life complain. This game is already 50x easier and faster to level up than it was in XI, even with this fatigue system. I guess some people really do just expect everything to be handed to them.

Was an awesome video.

No.

[Ghostsix.Midgard]

Why the hell would that be a bad thing?

Besides, there's more than just getting that rank up. Equipment, crafting, subjobs, probably genkais and other quests as well, helping LS buddies out with story missions and unlocking their gear, etc... Heck, I'd be fucking disappointed if it only took 2-3 months.

this

[zephys]

I guess some people really do just expect everything to be handed to them.

Quite the opposite.
Some people want to feel like they earn progress instead of being handed it like allowance for an 8 year old.

Whatever pacing of the levels SE feels best serves the experience is what they should do, but as a design rule you should encourage and reward the behaviour you want instead of punishing behaviour you don't want - especially true for games and entertainment where people are there of their own will.

[Hyan]

Whatever pacing of the levels SE feels best serves the experience is what they should do, but as a design rule you should encourage and reward the behaviour you want instead of punishing behaviour you don't want - especially true for games and entertainment where people are there of their own will.

Every game does this. You just play the game that encourages the behavior you want and punishes/doesn't allow the behavior you don't care about.

The game gives us more freedom in that aspect, because you have -the option- to play a game that is different from everything else out here. It makes the whole genre much richer. Everyone doesn't have to like it.

[zephys]

No, not every game does that, though it's true different games cater to different people.
And it seems strange to say getting too much xp (progressing too fast) is a mistake on the side of the player that then has to be punished.
Why not instead add more luring content to persuade people to stop their mindless grinding sessions?

I don't want to change to another game. I want to play XIV and I want to enjoy it.
I really do for the most part and it certainly isn't the 'bonus' system that's my biggest concern about it atm, but I still don't like this kind of punishment.
It just seems like an easy way to stall people because there isn't all that much content, and by having people repeat the same levels over and over, you can make the content that is there last much longer.

[Hyan]

Why not instead add more luring content to persuade people to stop their mindless grinding sessions?

Or why couldn't they simply wait until the first expansion (or hell, second) is ready before releasing the game? Problem solved!

It just seems like an easy way to stall people because there isn't all that much content, and by having people repeat the same levels over and over, you can make the content that is there last much longer.

No, "easy way" to stall people is to make the leveling curve like in RO or Aion. This kind of system honestly takes much more work to get "right", and not simply because you kinda have to build it from the ground up because there is no set template for you to use.

But yes, one reason was to make the content last longer and give the developers a longer head-start. The longer it takes for the majority of the playerbase to "catch up", the better. I think that it is necessary to do something like this one way or the other, especially if they want the game to last.

[zephys]

My point was simply not to punish people when you can achieve the same things with a system that rewards people instead.

I don't really get it though. I'm saying there should be content so compelling that it persuades people to try it out instead of just grinding, and you find that ridiculous why?
I think it great people with less time on their hands get to play and have a much larger role than they did in XI, but there should ideally be content for both kinds of players.
I'm probably in between casual and hardcore, but I like the feeling that there's something just out of reach that I have to work for. I just hope XIV doesn't lose that.

[Anton]

Lot of butthurt in here...

First, "Punishment?" Are you kidding me? EVERY MMO HAS A SYSTEM FOR LIMITING YOUR PROGRESS. Surprise, bitches! Advancing too fast is a dev problem: If you can easily get whatever you want, you're good for... a month tops (Phantasy Star, gotta love dupers). If it takes forever to level up, casual people will not play (No Mo Money). In FFXI, if it wasn't the exp curve, or the merits, it was the endless searching for party, getting kazham key, getting telepoints, and oh god don't even start on gearing yourself...

Second, FFXIV IS IN BETA. It's an endless grind, same leves over and over... It's supposed to be! Why the hell would SE give you all the content when you aren't even paying yet? Content is piss easy to add, game mechanics are not. The only thing that pisses me off is the hardware mouse on a higher def screen. Above 1280x1024, the mouse is either WAY TOO SENSITIVE, or molasses slow, with no in between.

Finally, you're going to change your class anyway. In fact, you would be a complete fool not to in XIV, you would be seriously worse off for it. One would say class changing in XIV is an important part of the game.

If so, why do you still think you're going to be somehow punished, or impacted in any real way, if you're going to do what you would naturally do anyway. You'll want Second wind. You'll want Raging Strike. You'll want Ferocity. You'll want a craft to repair your gear (at least) or build new gear (at most) and they may not overlap. You'll want a DoH so you can macro in tools when you pass a harvesting point.

Are you seriously telling me you can grind so fast, you can cap out 5+ jobs (15 hours of 'regular exp' per job, not counting the decay while levelling up another job, or Sleep) in a single week? If you can't, you will never, ever have a problem. If you can what the hell are you doing with your life?

A casual player will be level 9 X, and only 9. A hardcore player will be level 12 with a deep pool of abilities, gear, and crafts to use. The casual player will want those abilities, so he'll have to go get them. Sounds fair to me

[Hyan]

My point was simply not to punish people when you can achieve the same things with a system that rewards people instead.

I don't think that is possible.

I don't really get it though. I'm saying there should be content so compelling that it persuades people to try it out instead of just grinding, and you find that ridiculous why?

Meh. I hate arguing against utopistic ideals. Yes in this magical theory wonderland that may be possible, how are you going to achieve that in practice? What's the carrot?

And if there is such content, what does it matter if there is a limitation or not?

Lot of butthurt in here...

Calm down lol

[zephys]

Tbh I haven't found the brilliant system that lets 'casuals' and 'hardcore' play the same content. I'll admit to that.
But I think it should be possible, and I'm just trying to point that out.
The limitations would still matter if there were such content (which there may well be - it is still beta, granted) because forcing people to do things and making the choice of doing it for them makes it much less enjoyable to do.

But I want to arrest the idea that you'll be severely crippled if you don't level other classes.
I'm not sure you've really thought that through tbh, because it completely undermines the idea behind the fatigue/bonus in the first place; Casuals and hardcore playing together.
If you then needed abilities from 4-5 different classes then the casuals wouldn't be able to play anyway.

[Anton]

Sorry Hyan, I'm just so tired of hearing the same flawed argument. It makes me
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...i/RageFace.png

But I want to arrest the idea that you'll be severely crippled if you don't level other classes.
I'm not sure you've really thought that through tbh, because it completely undermines the idea behind the fatigue/bonus in the first place; Casuals and hardcore playing together.
If you then needed abilities from 4-5 different classes then the casuals wouldn't be able to play anyway.

You will pay too much for 75% repairs. You will not have subjob goodies. I never said you need... well maybe 2 years down the line norms will develop, but you will want. I don't need raging strike and ferocity on my marauder, but it's fun to have, and they work well with Bloodlust, so why not? Second wind has saved me from dying a few times, but it's not necessary I guess (it kind of is).

Undermining the fatigue system? You don't get it, that's the point of the system silly. Casuals and hardcores will play together, but one will have a more, perhaps much more, developed level 10 than the other. Is that unfair?