FFXIV Tactics: Understand The Fatigue System [VIDEO]

[Hyan]

The limitations would still matter if there were such content (which there may well be - it is still beta, granted) because forcing people to do things and making the choice of doing it for them makes it much less enjoyable to do.

To some it makes it less enjoyable to do, to some it doesn't.

Some gamers don't like games with a single narrow path because the developers "force" them to do things certain way. Other gamers like it, or aren't bothered by it. That kind of limitation is necessary, however, to achieve certain things in the game.

I feel that the backlash the system gets is partly because there are a lot of people who thought they would get an ES: Oblivion but are getting FFXIII instead. Or if some guy was anticipating WoW thinking it's an RTS and finding out it's an MMO instead.

It's just not something for everyone, and never will be.

[zephys]

I didn't want to come off as a troll or a rage-quitter xD
I did get surplus briefly at the end of the first week here in OB, but the pace of lvling is much lower than beta 2/3 so you don't get there nearly as fast.
I don't think I'll have big problems with it with my play style, but I wish they weren't doing it still.

And I do so miss the old FF world maps That sense of travelling and being free to go where you choose. Oh well, that's getting a bit off topic.

[Hyan]

I did get surplus briefly at the end of the first week here in OB, but the pace of lvling is much lower than beta 2/3 so you don't get there nearly as fast.
I don't think I'll have big problems with it with my play style, but I wish they weren't doing it still.

But, um, this sounds like you actually benefit from the system?

[zephys]

Perhaps.
But just because I benefit from something doesn't mean I support it.
It's whether I think it's the right thing or not - whether I can justify it to those that get most affected by it.

[Hyan]

Why should you justify it to them? It either benefits you or them- which side are you on?

[Anton]

Careful Ive seen brains explode from this much thinking

[zephys]

Why should you justify it to them? It either benefits you or them- which side are you on?

That's just sad.

Then I should be against funding schools, because I don't have kids. Against charity because I could use the money for a new TV.
I'd rather have things be fair than have some unjustified, direct gain from it - I suppose that peace of mind is my benefit then.

[Hyan]

That's just sad.

Then I should be against funding schools, because I don't have kids. Against charity because I could use the money for a new TV.
I'd rather have things be fair than have some unjustified, direct gain from it - I suppose that peace of mind is my benefit then.

It is never fair- someone is always going to get the short stick.

Although in another way it is as fair as it gets- everyone has the choice to play the game they want. You can play the game that benefits you, others can play the game that benefits them.

Are you going to feel sad for someone who complains there's not enough RPG elements in Gran Turismo 5? Developers, forcing people to race with cars instead of progressing their driver character and saving the world.. that is just so wrong.

It's a bad example, but should get the point across. You should play games that cater to you, and not bend into the will of those that want your game to cater to them instead, because it would be "fair".

[Lucavi]

But there is absolutely -no- gain to having surplus. Its like putting chains on a person that runs on the treadmill at the gym for 2 hours a day every day at the gym, just because you're only there for a half hour 2 days a week. Why should they suffer because they do it more than you?

I don't mind the "system" of surplus; the actual implementation of it in-game, because as soon as I got it on my then-16 conj, I switched over to thaum to do some work and it was gone the next night. But that doesn't mean I like the "concept" of punishing someone simply for playing the game a lot. If I was a developer, I'd consider it an honor that someone was playing a lot, and while I wouldn't reward them with buffs or something for hours spent, I certainly wouldn't try to slow down their experience like this.

[Spider-Dan]

My point was simply not to punish people when you can achieve the same things with a system that rewards people instead.

So basically, to combat this issue, SE should reword the text as follows:

- every activity gives, say, 1% of current experience/skill points and 99% Bonus Experience/Skill Points
- Bonus points degrade at the rate of 8 hour-units per week blahblah

Now, it's no longer a punishment! It's a reward, because the word "bonus" is being used. You know, like rest bonus in WoW or exp boost from charged rings in FFXI.

Problem solved!

[Hyan]

But there is absolutely -no- gain to having surplus. Its like putting chains on a person that runs on the treadmill at the gym for 2 hours a day every day at the gym, just because you're only there for a half hour 2 days a week. Why should they suffer because they do it more than you?

You didn't watch the actual vid?

[Spider-Dan]

But there is absolutely -no- gain to having surplus. Its like putting chains on a person that runs on the treadmill at the gym for 2 hours a day every day at the gym, just because you're only there for a half hour 2 days a week. Why should they suffer because they do it more than you?

Depends on your goal. SE's goal, to extend the analogy, is to have a gym full of members of similar ability that can crosstrain together. They therefore choose to emphasize broadness of training, instead of specializing in one thing.

And it should be obvious that there is a gain to having surplus, from the community standpoint: forcing hardcore players to diversify (instead of grinding one specialty to the max) will necessarily result in a more robust skillset among the playerbase.

The one thing that is unequivocally handcuffed is physical level gain, but I'm not sure how much of an impact that even has, at this point.

[Kenshiin]

Not sure if this has already been posted but if they are going to keep surplus they should have actual bar graphs in the game similar to what they showed in this video. Then you can at least see what your surplus status is for all your jobs

[Valin]

You know, Whether or not the fatigue system works out is great and all, but what about the fact that servers will stay laggy due to -everyone- being in the same areas leveling off the same mobs being the same level due to said fatigue system >_>.

[Lucavi]

Depends on your goal. SE's goal, to extend the analogy, is to have a gym full of members of similar ability that can crosstrain together. They therefore choose to emphasize broadness of training, instead of specializing in one thing.

And it should be obvious that there is a gain to having surplus, from the community standpoint: forcing hardcore players to diversify (instead of grinding one specialty to the max) will necessarily result in a more robust skillset among the playerbase.

The one thing that is unequivocally handcuffed is physical level gain, but I'm not sure how much of an impact that even has, at this point.

"From the community standpoint" is a terrible cop-out, IMO. If SE wants to bolster the community, reward the community for working together, and make it fun and logical to group with and work together with the community. Don't shackle everyone's legs together and say "its for your own good, no work together".

[Gokulo]

Not sure if this has already been posted but if they are going to keep surplus they should have actual bar graphs in the game similar to what they showed in this video. Then you can at least see what your surplus status is for all your jobs

Not with S-E. Vagueness is their second name. We only get info on the basic of basics.

[Hyan]

I could see them implement something like that.

It's not that much different from being able to see how much exp you need for next level >_> They are not *that* vague.

[Gokulo]

But the exp tnl is very basic, while surplus system is something almost hidden in the game so And let's not forget older Dragon Quests xd

Nah, I agree they might add something like that... *someday*, after a lot of complaints

[Katlan]

lol @ Hyan posting in basically every other post. Be careful all, I didn't agree w/ Hyan over the fatigue system and he started to harass me over PM's in order to prove his point. Just so you all know who engage him in debate

[Spider-Dan]

"From the community standpoint" is a terrible cop-out, IMO. If SE wants to bolster the community, reward the community for working together, and make it fun and logical to group with and work together with the community. Don't shackle everyone's legs together and say "its for your own good, no work together".

1) Everyone is being rewarded; in case you haven't noticed, you level up pretty damn fast in XIV (pre-surplus).
2) We are all very well-acquainted with what it looks like when SE is forcing people to group up and work together. This is not it. Surplus system has no impact on whether or not people will need to work together... it simply ensures that hardcore players will be forced to diversify.