How much gold do you have?

[Falaras]

That's what I thought over two years ago, but guess what, they just keep getting better and better while priests get worse and worse

I dunno how they keep getting better and better, Ret and Prot are both pretty damn underwhelming right now.

[Arvin]

ret is pretty underwhelming in raids, their damage just seems bursty but extremely reliant on their procs. if they get 0 procs, they suck. if they get a bunch in a row, theyll rape.

[Plow]

That's what I thought over two years ago, but guess what, they just keep getting better and better while priests get worse and worse

disc priest crying about pallies, let alone in wotlk, let alone about pallies not getting nerfed enough is... well... beautiful

[Kaylia]

ret is pretty underwhelming in raids, their damage just seems bursty but extremely reliant on their procs. if they get 0 procs, they suck. if they get a bunch in a row, theyll rape.

I'm more curious how well their dps scale with gears. Mastery might end up fixing the reliability of proc eventually.

[Krye]

disc priest crying about pallies, let alone in wotlk, let alone about pallies not getting nerfed enough is... well... beautiful

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but paladins have undeniably been the best healer and disc has been the worst all through Wrath.

And now healing priests are completely unplayable and Blizz had to nerf paladins a teensy tiny bit because people were stacking only paladins because they're so good.

Are you a paladin in denial? A friend of mine is a career paladin and I was bitching about how in normal mode dungeons I have to drink after every pull on my priest, but I never dip below 99% mana in heroics on my paladin. He told me I was exaggerating and that there's no way it's true. I guess it's because I had to actually develop skills to succeed with the worst class in the game? All the faceroll one button skilladins think they're so good when in fact they don't have half a clue how to play this game?

I've been on both sides of the fence and I can tell you which side has green green green grass and which side is dead and rotting.

[Plow]

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but paladins have undeniably been the best healer and disc has been the worst all through Wrath.

And now healing priests are completely unplayable and Blizz had to nerf paladins a teensy tiny bit because people were stacking only paladins because they're so good.

Wait, you're talking about pve? I assumed you were talking about pvp. See, there's a pattern that dates back to vanilla of paladin always seeming overpowered when they're running around with a warrior. And, there's another pattern dating back to tbc of paladin being the best early in expansions (due to lack of resil not being as big a deal, and warriors), and getting nerfed over and over again throughout expansions.

I wouldn't argue for a second that paladin isn't the best atm, but outside of pvp priests, none of the other healers have it nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

Are you a paladin in denial? A friend of mine is a career paladin and I was bitching about how in normal mode dungeons I have to drink after every pull on my priest, but I never dip below 99% mana in heroics on my paladin. He told me I was exaggerating and that there's no way it's true. I guess it's because I had to actually develop skills to succeed with the worst class in the game? All the faceroll one button skilladins think they're so good when in fact they don't have half a clue how to play this game?

I've been on both sides of the fence and I can tell you which side has green green green grass and which side is dead and rotting.

I'm a former paladin that was top 10 in 2 brackets and gladiator 2 seasons when neilyo, spoh, glorin, superpaul pronne and dontjudgeme, etc etc etc were all in my bg. Playing a DK now, I mained paladin through vanilla + 2 expansions and am bored of it now.

The reason I find it hilarious for a priest to bitch is that throughout expansions priests have always risen far above paladin, not to mention being a counter to paladins. Our entire class is balanced around what was a 5 minute cooldown that you can remove with a half second cast you don't even need los for.


At start of TBC, Pally+War was "king." Except the top few spots were all mage+priest or lock+spriest because it countered them.

Then came the pally + lock. Except the top few spots were priest/lock, priest/rogue, priest/war, because it countered them.

At that point pally pretty much died for the rest of tbc and was replaced by druid/lock, druid/war, druid/rogue, and priest/rogue.

It was carried through 5's by 4 dps, and to a lesser extent 3's with lock/war or enh/war, but was for the most part a dead class.

Same basic thing happened in WotLK, except Pally was carried through 3's by dk/war, enhance/war, etc. I can understand priest being pissy about that, but, well, you still had rmp.


Anyway, it's just beautiful to see the tables turned after priests being pretty much the bane of my existence for vanilla + 2 expansions. And I didn't even get into priest vs dps pallies there, lol.

[Vandole]

why are prot pallies underwhelming? i'm levelling one now and i just finished levelling my mage to 84 and so far prot paladins have been the best tanks

i also have an 80 war and it seems so much better

[Falaras]

why are prot pallies underwhelming? i'm levelling one now and i just finished levelling my mage to 84 and so far prot paladins have been the best tanks

i also have an 80 war and it seems so much better

Since their damage is based on Holy Power they are pretty shitty in PvP. No long can you get someone in a stun and just unload on them to kill them.

[Norellicus]

No long can you get someone in a stun and just unload on them to kill them.

Mission fucking accomplished imo, there's nothing remotely sporting about that approach.

[Krye]

Wait, you're talking about pve? I assumed you were talking about pvp. See, there's a pattern that dates back to vanilla of paladin always seeming overpowered when they're running around with a warrior. And, there's another pattern dating back to tbc of paladin being the best early in expansions (due to lack of resil not being as big a deal, and warriors), and getting nerfed over and over again throughout expansions.

I wouldn't argue for a second that paladin isn't the best atm, but outside of pvp priests, none of the other healers have it nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.



I'm a former paladin that was top 10 in 2 brackets and gladiator 2 seasons when neilyo, spoh, glorin, superpaul pronne and dontjudgeme, etc etc etc were all in my bg. Playing a DK now, I mained paladin through vanilla + 2 expansions and am bored of it now.

The reason I find it hilarious for a priest to bitch is that throughout expansions priests have always risen far above paladin, not to mention being a counter to paladins. Our entire class is balanced around what was a 5 minute cooldown that you can remove with a half second cast you don't even need los for.


At start of TBC, Pally+War was "king." Except the top few spots were all mage+priest or lock+spriest because it countered them.

Then came the pally + lock. Except the top few spots were priest/lock, priest/rogue, priest/war, because it countered them.

At that point pally pretty much died for the rest of tbc and was replaced by druid/lock, druid/war, druid/rogue, and priest/rogue.

It was carried through 5's by 4 dps, and to a lesser extent 3's with lock/war or enh/war, but was for the most part a dead class.

Same basic thing happened in WotLK, except Pally was carried through 3's by dk/war, enhance/war, etc. I can understand priest being pissy about that, but, well, you still had rmp.


Anyway, it's just beautiful to see the tables turned after priests being pretty much the bane of my existence for vanilla + 2 expansions. And I didn't even get into priest vs dps pallies there, lol.

I didn't play before WotLK, so I can't comment on previous expansions. But paladins were viable with pretty much everything and they were top tier during the entire last expansion. Melee, wizards, you name it. Whereas priests pretty much only had rmp to fall back on. And it irritates me so much because the paladin playstyle is stand at max range and spam flash of light forever and never run OOM. And then you say priests "counter" paladins, all a paladin needs is a pillar for mana burn and some partners that can rape the priest the second he tries to go in for a fear and you've completely negated the class. It's been so frustrating over the years getting gibbed by any fucking comp in a global or two or running OOM while palagods have been invincible and they never dip below 99% mana.

[Falaras]

Mission fucking accomplished imo, there's nothing remotely sporting about that approach.

I see zero problem with that approach when you are a very easy to kite class. It was fine balance against things like Frost Mages where if you did manage to force a blink and get them in a stun you could kill them, versus now you literally can't do damage to them.

I didn't play before WotLK, so I can't comment on previous expansions. But paladins were viable with pretty much everything and they were top tier during the entire last expansion. Melee, wizards, you name it. Whereas priests pretty much only had rmp to fall back on. And it irritates me so much because the paladin playstyle is stand at max range and spam flash of light forever and never run OOM. And then you say priests "counter" paladins, all a paladin needs is a pillar for mana burn and some partners that can rape the priest the second he tries to go in for a fear and you've completely negated the class. It's been so frustrating over the years getting gibbed by any fucking comp in a global or two or running OOM while palagods have been invincible and they never dip below 99% mana.

Priests pretty much hard countered paladins before WoTLK. Mana Burn was crazy effective versus both Holy and Ret (4 Mana burns could remove a Ret from the arena match completely) and a lot of the balance back then was around the bubble that was dispellable by priests. Honestly at 70 Paladin and Shaman healers might as well have not existed outside 5s because of how good Priests and Druids where.

[Vandole]

Since their damage is based on Holy Power they are pretty shitty in PvP. No long can you get someone in a stun and just unload on them to kill them.

but what aboot pve?

[Falaras]

but what aboot pve?

Tanks are pretty balanced in PvE at this point, from what I understand Warriors and Paladins are supposed to be a small bit weaker than DKs/Druids but not enough to matter.

[Plow]

Only thing that sets pally behind in pve is dk's amazing array of short timer cd's.

I didn't play before WotLK, so I can't comment on previous expansions. But paladins were viable with pretty much everything and they were top tier during the entire last expansion. Melee, wizards, you name it. Whereas priests pretty much only had rmp to fall back on. And it irritates me so much because the paladin playstyle is stand at max range and spam flash of light forever and never run OOM. And then you say priests "counter" paladins, all a paladin needs is a pillar for mana burn and some partners that can rape the priest the second he tries to go in for a fear and you've completely negated the class. It's been so frustrating over the years getting gibbed by any fucking comp in a global or two or running OOM while palagods have been invincible and they never dip below 99% mana.

Incoming sheep they're about to burst! Sac on... nvmnd, dispelled, gg.

Fuck my war could totally finish this off if he could stay on there, freedom time! Nvmnd, dispelled, gg.

Lock going down, can't peel that rogue, better bop! Nvmnd, dispelled, gg.

Oh, wait, I'll just stun him! Nvmnd, dispelled again, gg.

Fuck going down, time to bubble and get out of los. Nvmnd, priest didn't need actual los to dispel my 5 min cd my entire class is (im)balanced around, dispelled, gg.

etc. etc.

Also, the most dangerous cleaves relied on priests for dispels, pally was an "acceptable" substitute, but druid actually subbed in better for a lot of them thanks to cyclone and meaningful mobility.

[Krye]

Only thing that sets pally behind in pve is dk's amazing array of short timer cd's.

Incoming sheep they're about to burst! Sac on... nvmnd, dispelled, gg.

Fuck my war could totally finish this off if he could stay on there, freedom time! Nvmnd, dispelled, gg.

Lock going down, can't peel that rogue, better bop! Nvmnd, dispelled, gg.

Oh, wait, I'll just stun him! Nvmnd, dispelled again, gg.

Fuck going down, time to bubble and get out of los. Nvmnd, priest didn't need actual los to dispel my 5 min cd my entire class is (im)balanced around, dispelled, gg.

etc. etc.

Also, the most dangerous cleaves relied on priests for dispels, pally was an "acceptable" substitute, but druid actually subbed in better for a lot of them thanks to cyclone and meaningful mobility.

Incoming sheep, shadow word death! NVM silenced or out of range.

My teammates are stuck in place! JK no mobility cooldowns.

Lock going down! Pain suppression JK kill through it.

I'll fear JK can't get in range/tremor/berserks/lichborne/dispel/breaks on 10% damage.

We'll win if I can MD that bubble! JK resist resist resist (Cata fixed that).

You really shouldn't try to use mobility as a reason why disc priests are better than paladins seeing as how we're the only spec in the game without a snare or speed increase or snare/root removal.

Every other healer has much better survivability, longevity, defensive cooldowns, and CC. Dispel, mana burn, and assist dps were the only thing priests had over other healers, and now Blizz gave dispel to every healer, they're taking mana burn out of the game if you saw the latest patch notes, and they gave every healer good dps. So they gave away all our toys and we got nothing in return.

[Arvin]

this looks like role playing

[Norellicus]

LIGHTNING BOLT

LIGHTNING BOLT

[Guitarman]

pvp talk without this epic (but old) pic. for shame.

Spoiler: show

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...arlockpala.jpg

[Norellicus]

Cracks me up every time, the paladin's face is what really sells it

[Plow]

Incoming sheep, shadow word death! NVM silenced or out of range.

10 sec cd, 40 yard range, not dispellable. Comparison: 2 min cd, dispellable, and just as vulnerable to the weaknesses you listed.

My teammates are stuck in place! JK no mobility cooldowns.

Rooted? Dispel. Nova'd? Dispel. Multiple people stuck? Mass dispel. Pally has the advantage there vs crippling or hamstring.

Lock going down! Pain suppression JK kill through it.

Anything going down! Bop! Jk only stops one kind of dmg and gets insta dispelled if they're physical anyway.

I'll fear JK can't get in range/tremor/berserks/lichborne/dispel/breaks on 10% damage.

I'll stun JK resisted/can't get in range/grounding/dispelled/only hits 1 target/twice as long cd.

We'll win if I can MD that bubble! JK resist resist resist (Cata fixed that).

We'll win if I can survive this shit! JK 5 min cd dispelled as I was hitting it, I'm entirely helpless now.

You really shouldn't try to use mobility as a reason why disc priests are better than paladins seeing as how we're the only spec in the game without a snare or speed increase or snare/root removal.

Who used mobility as an argument about priest? I commented on druid mobility...

Every other healer has much better survivability, longevity, defensive cooldowns, and CC. Dispel, mana burn, and assist dps were the only thing priests had over other healers, and now Blizz gave dispel to every healer, they're taking mana burn out of the game if you saw the latest patch notes, and they gave every healer good dps. So they gave away all our toys and we got nothing in return.

Again I'm not arguing about now, I'm talking about vanilla/tbc/wrath.