Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Sephiroth]

You want to go back to the days of having to wait 3-5 seconds between 2-handed swings? The days of everyone wielding a 2-hander being forced to sit on the bench because SE can't balance between slow, strong strikes and fast, light strikes?

I don't. I'll take faster combat for all classes over slow combat for 2-handers while war/nins do equal damage per swing. I'll take a system where it's not all about how much haste gear you stack, and a system where your job's potential isn't based on how much damage you can avoid while pumping out due to broken mechanics.

The battle regiment system doesn't work because its a shitty system, not because of speed. The system was terrible in Alpha, even with the slower combat. You're trying to coordinate these micro-commands that lock out your character while they take effect, and for pretty paltry rewards unless you stack a bunch of them. If it wasn't so clunky (and it would still be clunky with slower stamina regen) and so restrictive while it activates, it might have worked.

You can have a slower battle speed without any of the negatives you listed. And like I said in my post, we should be suggesting improvements to the current battle speed instead of going back and pissing off those who hated alpha speed.

I suggested get rid of the lock out for regiments, make it a different bar on the screen so that you can still spam attacks while setting it up. But that's not going to work when mobs die too fast.

Only downside to giving mobs tonnes of HP is it will suck trying to solo anything. We need a balance somewhere, or a mob's HP determined by the number of people engaging it (while still favouring partying).

The old SP system sucked because SE was essentially making the entire game RNG. You really think leveling up on a class should be on a random chance? Seriously?

Its too bad SE started making these changes, Sepiroth. I'd have enjoyed seeing you as the only one still playing this game if they had kept things going the way they were.

Yes, because grinding mobs that you can one shot kill solo all day for 70-100 SP each is such a better system than grinding in a party on tough mobs for up to 500 per mob! I don't know how you can prefer that. Sure, it was random, but it averaged out more per hour. To be fair, both systems suck ass. But the current one more so. Bring back XI's EXP system and chains already.

[Lucavi]

You can have a slower battle speed without any of the negatives you listed. And like I said in my post, we should be suggesting improvements to the current battle speed instead of going back and pissing off those who hated alpha speed.

I suggested get rid of the lock out for regiments, make it a different bar on the screen so that you can still spam attacks while setting it up. But that's not going to work when mobs die too fast.

Only downside to giving mobs tonnes of HP is it will suck trying to solo anything. We need a balance somewhere, or a mob's HP determined by the number of people engaging it (while still favouring partying).



Yes, because grinding mobs that you can one shot kill solo all day for 70-100 SP each is such a better system than grinding in a party on tough mobs for up to 500 per mob! I don't know how you can prefer that. Sure, it was random, but it averaged out more per hour. To be fair, both systems suck ass. But the current one more so. Bring back XI's EXP system and chains already.

1)Improvements have been listed left and right.
2)Why are the mobs dying so fast? Is it because they have piss poor HP or because, when set to a challenging level, they hit so hard that the player(s) has/have no choice but to kill them as quickly as possible?
3) Who is soloing a red mob? Obviously blue mobs would have low HP and green mobs would have reasonably low HP. Yellow mobs would have a goodly bit, Orange would have a lot, and Red would have a very large amount of HP. You make it seem like level 20 characters in XI were soloing goblin smithies in the jungle. If they ever tried, even with a PL, the mobs ended up having so much HP that it wasn't worth it in the first place. You solo things slightly stronger than you, at your level, or slightly weaker. Anything in that range would work fine. Its called balance. Just because SE has no idea how to incorporate it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist elsewhere.
4) Not every class could one-shot mobs back then, and not every class can one-shot them now. Mages were punished under the old system. Just because your archer benefitted doesn't mean that every class did.

[Fawkes]

I'm not quite understanding how people are accusing crafting of being so utterly important/prioritized in XIV. How is it any more important in this game than others? How else is basic equipment made? Is it just because equipment doesn't drop from any mobs yet? Now that rank 1~25ish weapons and armor can be purchased from NPCs and there's even some content that rewards full pieces of gear, as well as the physical exp fix... I don't see how people can still say that battling takes a back seat to crafting outside of the crappy DoW/M skill point gains that are currently just turning people to crafting out of boredom.

I'm guessing it's the whole item repairs things... but with the value of gil right now, I'm not sure if NPC repairs are all that unrealistic to rely on once they fix the fucking absurd rate of condition wear (which would also take some importance away from crafting). A full day of playing, exping, farming, etc. should bring my weapon down to 30% maybe. Repairs should be a daily thing, not an hourly thing, so you could just throw your weapons up in your bazaar for repairs when you go to sleep and have them repaired and able to last through the next day's activities.

1-25 gear is available from NPCs? Did they mention that in any update notes? I remember it was there in alpha/beta, but they took it out completely for release, if they've changed it back I was unaware.

[Sephiroth]

1)Improvements have been listed left and right.
2)Why are the mobs dying so fast? Is it because they have piss poor HP or because, when set to a challenging level, they hit so hard that the player(s) has/have no choice but to kill them as quickly as possible?
3) Who is soloing a red mob? Obviously blue mobs would have low HP and green mobs would have reasonably low HP. Yellow mobs would have a goodly bit, Orange would have a lot, and Red would have a very large amount of HP. You make it seem like level 20 characters in XI were soloing goblin smithies in the jungle. If they ever tried, even with a PL, the mobs ended up having so much HP that it wasn't worth it in the first place. You solo things slightly stronger than you, at your level, or slightly weaker. Anything in that range would work fine. Its called balance. Just because SE has no idea how to incorporate it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist elsewhere.
4) Not every class could one-shot mobs back then, and not every class can one-shot them now. Mages were punished under the old system. Just because your archer benefitted doesn't mean that every class did.

I am soloing red mobs.
I am one shotting red mobs.
I am getting around 90-100 SP per mob.
Just what about that do you not understand?

Give them more HP so that I can't one shot them? Right, so then you want me to grind at 40 SP per mob instead on blue ones? Because if I don't one or two shot the red ones, they're killing me. Grinding is awful enough as it is when you're getting 90-100 per mob.

I would love you to list the improvements that system gives over partying with people and gaining 300-500 per mob in the old system.

My archer is not benefiting at all, it simply has it easier than other classes in the current system. I am almost certain I could get more than 6-8k SP per hour under the old system and do it in a group rather than solo weak mobs. Just what is it about this major different don't you understand?

You didn't even play the game under the old system for fuck sake. You only returned a few weeks ago.

______________________________________________

Now I have another complaint. The retarded fucking community on Wutai.

I ran all the way from Cedar to Bloodshore mid-way through my leves to do the behest. I get there and everyone is standing around forming like 3 different parties. I stand there typing /s Please Invite Me (with auto translate) and the idiots ignore me.

SE really needs to change behest so that anyone can attack any target and still get the SP regardless of whether you're in a party. Kinda like how dynamis worked in XI.

I have just blacklisted about ten idiots as a result.

[miokomioko]

1-25 gear is available from NPCs? Did they mention that in any update notes? I remember it was there in alpha/beta, but they took it out completely for release, if they've changed it back I was unaware.

It wasn't easy to notice and it took me a while to even find it again in the notes.

Certain pieces of gear for Disciples of War and Magic below rank 20 can now be purchased.
These items are available at the following locations.

At least it is definitely stuff that can carry any class to 20 without rummaging through retainers. Especially for new players not to get too frustrated to find equipment. These NPCs also give you the run-down on anything you want to know about equipment affinity and condition wear.

[Lucavi]

I am soloing red mobs.
I am one shotting red mobs.
I am getting around 90-100 SP per mob.
Just what about that do you not understand?

Give them more HP so that I can't one shot them? Right, so then you want me to grind at 40 SP per mob instead on blue ones? Because if I don't one or two shot the red ones, they're killing me. Grinding is awful enough as it is when you're getting 90-100 per mob.

I would love you to list the improvements that system gives over partying with people and gaining 300-500 per mob in the old system.

My archer is not benefiting at all, it simply has it easier than other classes in the current system. I am almost certain I could get more than 6-8k SP per hour under the old system and do it in a group rather than solo weak mobs. Just what is it about this major different don't you understand?

You didn't even play the game under the old system for fuck sake. You only returned a few weeks ago.

1) You're soloing red mobs. That's a problem with game balance, not simply low HP and SP. If SE knew how to balance the game, every red mob would rape your face if attempted solo, just like essentially every IT mob would drop you solo in XI, if you weren't bst or abusing game mechanics like nins. There's your first problem. You should be soloing even matches, and, more importantly, even matches should typically be scaled and balanced to put up a good fight - an EVEN MATCH - to someone of their appropriate level.

2) If 1 is done properly, then you can now increase the SP on mobs when fighting solo, because its no longer some easy-ass one-shot. Again, it goes back to balance. We know why SE is making solo at high level drop such pathetic returns on SP; because they had no content ready, and don't want you flying to cap. It all goes back to conscious choices by SE.

EXP should be gained at a flat percentage rate, so the XP you see from each mob should increase in proportion to the amount of XP needed to hit the next level. If they want, they can simply tweak the XP number to drop slightly each time you level, with the percentage given based on the difficulty of mob you fight. That way, when you're seeing this 55,560 TNR bullshit, you're getting 800-1200 SP per fight that takes 30 seconds to a minute and a half, instead of this un-balanced one-shotting (for some classes; not all!) of "red" mobs that only gives 80-100. Again, stupid decisions by SE to drag out an unfinished and content-starved game.

3) Who said there were improvements to solo over partying in this new system? I said the old system sucked because healers weren't rewarded for their actions, while attack-spammers in the front cleaned up. Nowhere did I magically say that solo was super-fine under any system. The game is broken. The systems are broken. The concepts are broken. Everyone knows this. Welcome to FFXIV!

4) The "old" system existed from Alpha to the middle of November! How can you say I didn't play? I essentially played under the old system for 6 months! Get the fuck outta here.

[Sephiroth]

You are clearly missing the point. People didn't figure out where to get good SP with the old system until well after the game's release. Don't give me that alpha/beta bullshit comparison where you played and got barely any SP. Point is people partied then, it's not worth partying now. In fact I tried it today. The SP was slower than solo and the mobs we were SPing on were hitting for 350 with 800+ AOEs, for about 20 SP per mob more than I got solo on the weaker mobs.

I'm not going to bother continuing this argument because we both agree the SP system is fucked up. I also agree a red mob should rape my ass solo, but "even match" mobs give barely any SP. Red mobs give barely any SP when you need to kill 300-1000 of them per rank depending on your TNR.

The game needs to be aiming for 100 SP for an even match, around 300 for a red and then fill in the gaps. That's solo, then add a system for parties to benefit. Like, why not copy and paste XI's system? Give coblyns more HP while they're at it so that archers and conjurers can't one/two shot red/yellow ones. (Yes I'm sure conjurers could do it just as easy with Profundity + tier 2 nuke and spikes kept up).

[Lucavi]

The game needs to be aiming for 100 SP for an even match, around 300 for a red and then fill in the gaps. That's solo, then add a system for parties to benefit. Like, why not copy and paste XI's system? Give coblyns more HP while they're at it so that archers and conjurers can't one/two shot red/yellow ones. (Yes I'm sure conjurers could do it just as easy with Profundity + tier 2 nuke and spikes kept up).

Game needs to be aiming for more than that. You've got people in the other threads saying the exact opposite of what you just said: "why try to get SE away from innovating?!"

Everyone's all over the map with where they want the game to go. The only thing that's a constant is the displeasure.

[Sephiroth]

I guess it's hard to cater to everyone. I don't want it to be too easy to get a class to 50. I think XI's pacing in its early years was fine. Back when it took 30-40k and you got 4k per hour in a great party. I guess you have people wanting to get a new rank within 2-3 hours of play to cater for too.

[Lucavi]

I guess it's hard to cater to everyone. I don't want it to be too easy to get a class to 50. I think XI's pacing in its early years was fine. Back when it took 30-40k and you got 4k per hour in a great party. I guess you have people wanting to get a new rank within 2-3 hours of play to cater for too.

If there was more to do in the game than grind levels for new abilities every 2 levels, maybe people wouldn't want to hit max cap so fast.

[blythe]

Yes, because grinding mobs that you can one shot kill solo all day for 70-100 SP each is such a better system than grinding in a party on tough mobs for up to 500 per mob! I don't know how you can prefer that. Sure, it was random, but it averaged out more per hour. To be fair, both systems suck ass. But the current one more so. Bring back XI's EXP system and chains already.

The randomness was not the issue. The issue was that the old system rewarded a ridiculous style of play, where people would spam their lowest damage dealing skills while conjurers would desperately heal the second anyone took damage, all trying to keep the mob alive as long as possible. It just doesn't make sense to me why an experience point system shouldn't encourage you to kill the strongest mobs you can in the most efficient manner.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

The randomness was not the issue. The issue was that the old system rewarded a ridiculous style of play, where people would spam their lowest damage dealing skills while conjurers would desperately heal the second anyone took damage, all trying to keep the mob alive as long as possible. It just doesn't make sense to me why an experience point system should encourage you to kill the strongest mobs you can in the most efficient manner.

^
I'd flip on conj's and thaums that would nuke in my party way back. Stupid system is stupid when you're trying to keep the mob alive as long as possible so you get some kinda sp out of it. Killing mobs and getting no SP was awesome too. All mobs in general need a SP boost, harder conning mobs need to give more SP than weaker, and there needs to be 'exp chains' or something like it brought back to encourage partying.

[Sephiroth]

The randomness was not the issue. The issue was that the old system rewarded a ridiculous style of play, where people would spam their lowest damage dealing skills while conjurers would desperately heal the second anyone took damage, all trying to keep the mob alive as long as possible. It just doesn't make sense to me why an experience point system shouldn't encourage you to kill the strongest mobs you can in the most efficient manner.

Yeah but the current system rewards a ridiculous style of play too. The one shot coblyn grinds. The old system was what put me off conjurer however, it just wasn't possible to play it as more of a damage dealer than healer. Hence why I'm now ranking archer. I much preferred BLM and WHM being separate classes in XI than combined in XIV.

[miokomioko]

If we had to choose between the two, I'd rather have random gains (that averaged out just fine) and big, fun group exping, instead of consistently crappy skill points and party exping almost entirely dead. I think that's the argument here. I'm expecting things to be fixed... but I'm not sure why they haven't acknowledged it at all yet.

[ZarakiKujata]

They just had a tumultous change in leadership, and the dev team in general. I'm sure as the new team figures out what it wants to do they'll tell us.

(Nice I'm white knighting a complaint from mioko now?)

[Sephiroth]

My game just crashed for the fifth time today. I'm sure with each patch the client gets less stable. Normally I don't crash more than once a day. Even that should be too frequent. FFXI rarely ever crashed.

Oh yeah Jadeite is starting to piss me off. It can only be obtained by HQing Jade, and the amount of recipes it is used in is ridiculous. It is even used in a repair. I always dread people asking me to make them some because I only seem to HQ it about one in ten. Ten synths spamming bold for 0 SP is not fun. It's hard to say no when it's your LS asking. SE need to add a new method of obtaining this.

[Aratharn]

Ugh I hate when ppl constantly compare this game w/ FFXI.

FFXI didn't crash much because by the time you played they had fixed all those bugs.

Back on the recent topic... exp chains would be an awesome way to compliment this current 'system.'

[Sephiroth]

You act like it's common for software to crash multiple times per day months after release. I have never used any software that has crashed so much, ever. Nevermind comparing it to FFXI. The comparison was because they were both made by the same company.

On a side note, behest is fun when players actually want to do it correctly. SE should expand on it, give reason for your party to stick together rather than disbanding once it's over.

[miokomioko]

Behests would be instantly better when they fix that issue with unclaimed mobs not tallying up skill points from damaging... on top of some mob groups just not becoming claimed as you attack them.

[Sephiroth]

They need to fix that as well as make all mobs tar gettable regardless of parties. Also make the behests every half hour instead of once per hour. I think you get more mobs for more party members already, but it's not enough when the behest is over in 10-15 minutes. Either add more mobs or give current ones more HP and potential SP.