Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Gadritan]

I agree about the story lines though too. I was anticipating some sort of split in the story....that never happened. It'd be nice if they took them down different roads from here on out. It'd give you something to look forward to when lvling a new discipline.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

What I didn't like about XI's was the randomness of the synths(pray for HQ did suck, at least here you can touch up and have a better chance), what I did like was the simplistic leveling system on your way to 100. This grinding shit for 100's - 1000's for one rank blows(it's a freakin job, not a casual game). Needing 12 earth shards to do one iron square synth blows. Needing 14 fire shards for one brass nugget synth blows. Sure there are ways to get shards easy (buy, fish/alc, break crystals) but it still blows and takes up a hell of a lot of time. The system itself I could stand and actually like if you didn't need to do it a million times to get to 50 since it's pretty interactive. In XI you could sit down to synth for an hour and get a few levels out of it. Here you can't get one in an hour post 20. Glad other people like spamming standard synth for a couple hours while watchin tv on another screen, but I'd rather be out playing DoW/M. It's just not my cup of tea.

As for DoL? It sucks. Plain and simple. How the hell is grinding a gathering class fun? Run to a node, select your aim, play the hot and cold game, repeat 3-6 times getting 80-110 sp each time. Ohhhhhh those adventurers that came over on the boat to gather resources as a main class are sooooo coooool! Give me a break. While I'll admit the select aim/hot and cold game is a lot better than XI since it is interactive and you can kinda select what you want to get(sweet spot), it's a freakin bore to do for hours on end because you need to rank up high enough to get gold ore to level GS. Having it as a main class is just LOL.

You actually like DoL as a main class in this game? Good for you. I joined up to play combat classes, not have a 3rd job gathering resources for my 2nd job making/repairing gear for my 1st job, which really the grind dulls in comparison to my 3rd/2nd jobs.

[Hyan]

It's just not my cup of tea.

Sounds like a fuck-up or an underdeveloped economy than a problem with the crafting system itself, tbh. Crafting wasn't meant to be done by people that didn't find it their cup of tea in the first place, it's a career like DoW/M for people that prefer it.

If there is an issue in the system that doesn't make the cooperation between crafters, gatherers and DoW/M work efficiently enough (underdeveloped marketplace could be the culprit for example) or skews the playerbase somehow (not enough crafters/gatherers, too many DoW/M) then that's something they should tackle asap.

Everything affects everything.

[Gadritan]

You actually like DoL as a main class in this game? Good for you. I joined up to play combat classes

Then what are you bitching about? Play combat classes, leave the crafting and gathering to others.

[Cichy]

^this. Go play your combat classes and leave crafting for people who enjoy it. I personally dont enjoy it much either, my blacksmith is 34 and I got tired of the grind. However, there's people in my ls that have multiple crafts at 50 now and they enjoy doing that, they level faster than others do on DoW/DoLs. There's plenty of people who enjoy leveling DoLs too.
I dont see what game has this magical crafting system that's pure win and fun. Gathering/crafting was way worse in Aion, FFXI, from what I've seen mining in Rift blows also. Oh, and it was super fun lvl 80+ in XI when I collected materials for week or 2 in hope to get atleast 1 level out of them just to turn out that I got 0.2 skillup out of 40 synths. Ya that was brilliant system.
Atleast here you know that you're making progress and it's actually one of the most rewarding aspects of the game if you're into it. I also like that you have some sort of control over HQ vs NQ unlike random bullshit in XI or Aion or w/e other game you wanna pick.

[Hyan]

If the system works well in an LS setting that's good to know, but they should make it work in general also. Although I dunno how guilds and such will be set up in this game, will everyone be a part of a bigger organization that handles this kind of interaction or whether SE has to create something outside companies/LS's to make interaction between crafters and DoW/M in general more effective so that people outside any larget community are not forced to become self-sufficient.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

I wouldn't put near as much time into crafting if the repairs in this game weren't as bad as they are. As it stands on my 33 THM using a 31 scepter I get to do 3-4 leves max before it's below 50%. I use aoe sacrifice, some buffs, and a few debuffs. Can't really play this class without having GS up to repair my scepter every 40-60 minutes. I'll admit that I enjoy being able to repair my own gear and not having to rely on others, it's just a shame that I was kinda forced into this or playing gimp on my DoW/M. If you're in the field and you need repairs, unless you have someone there that can do it, you're screwed. GLDs tanking in red gear make me look like superman tanking on my THM.

[Lucavi]

There can be fights in the main scenario if you want there to be (read: have an appropriately-ranked DoW/M). Also, I'm pretty sure I recall a battle with an Elemental in the Gridania missions. Also, didn't we all fight jellyfish/goobbues/wolves the second we started up the game?

Yeah, you can't lose that elemental fight either. You have 3 NPCs that just beat on it (like once every 30 seconds or so) in case you forgot you were still wearing your pitchfork instead of your sword. If that's seriously how the rest of this game is going to be because SE wants to promote some grandiose and stupid vision of "absolute freedom!", this is going to be the worst quest-based MMO ever. I can't imagine doing major storyline battles that are constantly and permanently dumbed down so that pure crafters can perform them without doing a lick of fighting. Yet, that's the basic idea, and that's why our character never end up actually fighting anything cool that shows up in the cutscenes.

No diablolos fight (a tough fight thrown directly in the questline), nothing like Divine Might (a super-tough fight if you arent' a blm-spamming lamer that serves as extra content to the main storyline), ect.

[DuckDucky]

I wouldn't put near as much time into crafting if the repairs in this game weren't as bad as they are. As it stands on my 33 THM using a 31 scepter I get to do 3-4 leves max before it's below 50%. I use aoe sacrifice, some buffs, and a few debuffs. Can't really play this class without having GS up to repair my scepter every 40-60 minutes. I'll admit that I enjoy being able to repair my own gear and not having to rely on others, it's just a shame that I was kinda forced into this or playing gimp on my DoW/M. If you're in the field and you need repairs, unless you have someone there that can do it, you're screwed. GLDs tanking in red gear make me look like superman tanking on my THM.

agreed. the craft has too much importances for a simple game, the way to grind it totally sux (spending 3hrs or more for 1lv or less like you said). Also, that's true abuot the repairs as well, im a THAU 32 and god... my weapons just hit the red after a so short time... that fucking stupid...thats y ive found a way: i dont repair them anymore lol xD before the SP lolupdate, you just could ask a GS in the PT to repair it (with your mats for sure) but now... you have to shout for..kinda pathetic...well...anyway we were in the habbits to shout for a pt so heh, next time we'll shout for trades maybe.
Well, i enjoy the fact that crafts are interactives but i prefered the FFXI synergy system, faster, more interactive and "partyable". The FFXIV one is too boring, soporific and not well balanced between craft lvls/ability choices during it..anyway like i already said, to me a craft isn"t supposed to be a "main class" but a simple "sub class" when you're tired to fight to get some money/upgraded armors.

[Fawkes]

Then what are you bitching about? Play combat classes, leave the crafting and gathering to others.

^this. Go play your combat classes and leave crafting for people who enjoy it.

I don't know if the "If you don't like it, don't do it" approach is the one SE should be aiming for in a game almost nobody wants to play.

[Lucavi]

That's not something SE aims for. That's a typical fan retort for any flaw listed in a conversation. SE fans aren't alone in doing it, but that doesn't make it any less retarded of a "counter" to throw out.

[Hyan]

Ohh, SE is taking the "If you don't like it, do it anyway" approach. Smart.

[Gadritan]

That's a typical fan retort for any flaw listed in a conversation.

If you don't like the "counter," then don't read it.

[Lucavi]

Bravo.

[Cichy]

I don't know if the "If you don't like it, don't do it" approach is the one SE should be aiming for in a game almost nobody wants to play.

I don't think there's anything flawed with the crafting system, sure it could be improved but it's one innovative thing I've seen in 14. Dont throw this whole SE is to blame argument at me. Right now people bitch about everything and I feel that crafting is one thing people bitch for sake of bitching thinking that SE will listen to them.
My "if you dont like it, dont do it" is not "omg SE is god and burn in hell if you think otherwise." I dint like thf in XI never leveled it, I usually dont like support jobs so I dont level them, I dint like clothcraft in FFXI but I dint cry that SE messed clothcraft up because you could only reach 100 synthing dalmaticas. There were plenty of people who did that and leveled support jobs and found bunch of other stuff that I found stupid enjoyable to them.

[Hyan]

I think Blizzard seriously messed up with their "If you don't like PvP/PvE/Grouping/Soloing/Crafting, don't do it" approach.

Although I still applaud them for "If you like Crafting but don't prefer to Combat, well, you will fight anyway" tactic. Something XI did exceptionally well too.

[Sephiroth]

I think crafting is fine. It should take a lot of skill points and effort to get a craft to 50. We don't need everyone on the server with multiple rank 50 crafts as it will kill the economy even more.

I like what SE did with the bold nerf. You now have to go out of your way to hunt down +3 mats or synth +2/3 raw materials if you want that 40+ HQ gear and that's good, it adds some depth to it all rather than just sitting spamming synths until an HQ pops up.

DoL could use some improvement, it takes too long to level and isn't fun. It's something you level to support a craft, not to make money so it shouldn't take as much SP to get to 50.

SE need to stop treating all classes as equal. Half the SP requirement for DoL. Increase it for DoH. Make all future story missions DoW/M only.

[Elrina]

I actually liked the gathering system in Aion. I went out of my way to bring both of my gathering skills to max way earlier than I was supposed to (making gathering some stuff around much higher level mobs quite difficult at times). I liked the way it had it's own leveling system, and how items had their own level requirements to gather, but it wasn't stupidly difficult or random, and you could progress it pretty steadily. Prefer it to the slow dragging mini-game in XIV, personally.

The gathering classes would make more sense if there were actually an FF Tactics system of branching classes, requiring multiple others at specific levels/ranks to unlock. Alchemy + Botanist to unlock Chemist, etc. As it is, now that the game has been out for a while, it's hard (for me at least) to really see how they're justified as a full time class, especially with the SP requirements it has. I can't think of any way they could make a group activity for it, and it's completely menu driven, without even the potential interaction required from crafting. At least if it was like a real time action class or something, it might still be repetitive, but it would offer it some real distinction compared to the combat and crafting classes.

Crafting, on the other hand, was ridiculously easy in Aion. I mastered two crafts and was about to master a third on a mule simply because I could and there was no real reason not to. Crafting is substantially better in XIV, and can easily be justified as it's own class, although as such the game "should" be able to support everyone (or most people, at least) having at least one at max rank. And it should eventually get it's own events though, apart from combat players, otherwise they'll all stagnate and there will be no purpose behind full timing any one of them at max ranks. I still think there should be some kind of grouping aspect available for crafting as well, while skilling them, even if it only replaces subcrafts or allows you to share necessary materials for a synth. Supposedly there will be later, or was going to be for the "ships and cakes" or whatever, but I think some method of it should have been included from the beginning to prevent the grind to the top being a strictly solo activity.

And I've got to agree with Lucavi as far as fights, there was nothing quite like Divine Might for an alliance BCNM/story related battle. I quite enjoyed the difficulty to the Ultima/Omega CoP fight as well, for a smaller group. Frustrating, but possible, and oh so satisfying when you beat either BCNM for the first time.

[The Q]

I don't think Crafting in itself is bad or too poorly done, it's just a lot of other activities and game aspects interwoven with crafting are really bad. Repair for example. Weapon decay is still horrible compared to the rate armor decays at. Also, as many have said, DoL really sucks right now on multiple levels. Balancing the main scenario quests around them is also just a bad idea from the ground up. Once again something that seemed like a decent idea on paper, HORRIBLE in execution.

Also I think that the design philosophy originally was to allow DoL and DoH classes to have support roles for combat parties but like a lot of things never came to fruition yet the game that is is still built and balanced around those old ideas and everything suffers as a consequence.

[Lucavi]

Crafting isn't bad, outside of the pitiable menu. Its the fact that the SE tries to push the plot through crafting as well, and that hurts the combat portion of the game. I'm not used to seeing games that dumb down their story content so they can cater to crafters as well.