Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Hyan]

The point is that what is there to do at rank 50 once you've maxed out your SP? What is there to do other than actively skill before then?

Endgame, crafting "merits", the normal stuff.

Idk though. I simply replied to your statement that people don't want to be the bitches for the combat players. Because the actual mechanics of crafting and gathering are not on the level that really warrants playing solely as crafter (imo anyway), you gotta feel like there's a purpose in what you're doing. If you can't be of any help, and nobody really needs you, as well as feeling like you're not any different from the rest of the community, it's pointless. And more than that, it's something that can make up for the lack of true depth in gameplay as well.

I'm not against anything you said there, lol.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

I liked XIII, personally, but I think this is more a cash grab. I could easily be wrong, but I'm thinking that it's more design and ideas that were cut from XIII but already laying around + 12~18 months worth of development, not a fully developed game. It's Versus XIII that you should be looking towards before giving up on Final Fantasy, I think.

Yea I liked XIII as a game, just not as a FF title since it lacked the exploration and freedom feel that I usually expect out of a FF title and I felt disappointed. And holy moly, I heard of versus but never looked into it until just now. You're right, it looks like they're doing it right this time and I'm really excited about it. A real time combat system rpg with a HUGE world and they're kicking it old school (sorta) with airships you control along with other vehicles. They said the world is so big you need the vehicles to really get around, kinda like oblivion maybe. I just don't want monsters that scale with my level... that's really not my cup of tea and also why I kinda never finished oblivion.

[Hyan]

explorashon and freedum, synonyms for final fantasy

[Elrina]

Endgame, crafting "merits", the normal stuff.

Idk though. I simply replied to your statement that people don't want to be the bitches for the combat players. Because the actual mechanics of crafting and gathering are not on the level that really warrants playing solely as crafter (imo anyway), you gotta feel like there's a purpose in what you're doing. If you can't be of any help, and nobody really needs you, as well as feeling like you're not any different from the rest of the community, it's pointless. And more than that, it's something that can make up for the lack of true depth in gameplay as well.

I'm not against anything you said there, lol.

I didn't really mean to be antagonistic, I just see finding alternative ways of "crafting" things that help yourself, your fellow linkshell/company members, as well as potentially other people a better idea. If they want some cool piece for their company's "housing" that they saw on another, but required a rank 50 carpenter + alchemist + blacksmith to create, they can contract it out from people in that company. There could be a mailbox (once they get put in) not just for characters and gear, but leaving messages for companies/linkshells, or leave up general requests for certain things on their own or some kind of central bulletin with basic request parameters that crafters could then inquire after.

Just seems like there are a lot better ways for keeping crafting full time and enjoyable without subjugating them to combat players to complete leves/quests for them or wait for their company/linkshell to need their crafting class to craft up what the latest NMs dropped.

Edit:

I just don't want monsters that scale with my level... that's really not my cup of tea and also why I kinda never finished oblivion.

I don't think we'll see that, they did that in VIII I think, to some degree, so they probably won't do it again.

[Hyan]

That sounds rather fluff-like. Hard to balance between [I am useful] and [why the fuck am I making chairs in this game] it may be.

Both plz.

[jPuff]

Once chocobos and airships are in, crafters could also create things for them. Making crafters such a major aspect of this game, and leaving their primary ultimate purpose once they're at max rank nothing different than in XI or another game other than possibly introducing reasons for them to need a combat player to kill something for them is a real cop out (and really bland), and there should be a lot more involved there. Either stop pretending they're main classes and do some of that heavy editing to the armoury system itself, or give them an actual reason for existing beyond requiring every piece of gear obtained from every NM to be crafted, and making all the seasonal events "crafting events".

Yeah-- the fact that crafting and gathering classes are main "jobs" is going to continually come back to bite them in the ass until they make DoL/H an actual part of the gameplay (or completely do away with the distinction that they are main classes). What I mean to say is-- for example-- in FFXI there was never any expectation that crafters needed to be "included" in endgame, because the game was focused solely on fighting things. Now we have a situation where they explicitly stated that you would be able to play through the game exclusively as a crafter or gatherer in a much more tangible way than you could in FFXI (finishing main-line missions for one).

Like everything else though, they didn't think this through. Essentially they are going to have to develop two or three different games all with unique gameplay and endgame content, and we all know that is never going to happen. So realistically the only way out is to do away with the expectation that DoL/H are main jobs, at which point I may or may not quit the game outright because I loathe the combat system in its current state. As soon as the combat is remotely up to par, if ever, it will sit better with me that autonomous crafting classes are inevitably on the way out.

[Elrina]

Those fluff-like items on Company buildings could also offer some kind of stat/functional advantage that could be crafted into them for people in that Company. The function could be stats, traits, all kinds of different things. Combinations of certain types of items could create other advantages for Company members. If nobody in your Company is a rank 50+ x class, and you need one to create a certain type item (something that is likely going to happen relatively often), you could pay someone else to do it.

I don't know, there are all kinds of ways you could offer incentives and motivate reasons to want to build things or create things. Isn't that the ultimate joy in crafting, making new things? There will always be material drops off high level NMs to craft, always a ton of other regular gear/items to make, just like normal. But by implementing alternative systems and gameplay strictly for crafters, even if it requires an enormous range of types of items and potential results, there would be a lot of actual variety and potential fun in crafting beyond grinding out the same usual things.

I realize you aren't against that, but aiming attention at hoping to "be useful by helping others" when all that equates to is convincing someone to kill some mobs for you to complete a quest/leve (which you'll generally have to do, even if there's some kind of bonus SP reward involved) so that you can get a mat to make something for someone else and possibly make some money. It's a lot easier, sure, but it's a really weak idea of purpose and gameplay for such a central focus of a game. They need to do a hell of a lot more than that if they're going to justify crafting as such a central focus.

The "market wards" and "playing the market" as things to do was a really shitty idea, they need to come up with some better ones than that. I should have reasons for wanting to play a rank 50 Blacksmith at rank 50 beyond grinding out a specific item to make money off of it, or craft up the latest drop my ls got, then switch to my "real class".

[Hyan]

Yeah-- the fact that crafting and gathering classes are main "jobs" is going to continually come back to bite them in the ass until they make DoL/H an actual part of the gameplay

They are already actual part of gameplay, hence the commonly used term "Crafting fantasy XIV". Endgame isn't an issue as long as they don't have to resort to drastic anti-RMT measures. And those measures they seem to have already thought through quite extensively, lol.

Isn't that the ultimate joy in crafting, making new things?

Eh, depends if it's fluff or not!

Also, both plz. Which you seem to be saying at this point too. lol.

[Elrina]

Eh, depends if it's fluff or not!

Also, both plz. Which you seem to be saying at this point too. lol.

Eh, you get my point now. Sometimes (as you've no doubt noticed) I can explain my thoughts poorly, I thought I was saying basically the same thing the entire time.

In other news, there's been an update!

A FINAL FANTASY XIV version update was performed at the below time.

* Starting the FINAL FANTASY XIV client after the version update will cause the software to update automatically.

[Date & Time]
Jan. 18, 2011 from 13:00 to 15:30 (PST)

[Affected Service]
- FINAL FANTASY XIV

[Update Details]
- The amount of skill points and experience points gained from "fishing point investigation" type regional levequests have been adjusted.

- The following issues have been addressed:

* Players would experience a "(40000)4" error when entering the market wards.

* The FINAL FANTASY XIV client would forcefully shutdown when a player executes a macro with a specific combination of text commands.

Yoshida, where is our information!? Why won't you at least tell us when you'll be giving it to us!?

[Hyan]

I'll be making an announcement about an announcement tomorrow. Look forward to it!

[Fawkes]

That's why you can't really make these things into a side activity or anything. Leveling Doh or DoL is already much longer of a task than it was in XI. No one but the no lifers are going to end up being completely independent. You aren't suddenly a crafter, gladiator and fisher at the snap of your fingers- and most importantly, you won't be good at any of them.

I think you can easily make them a side activity, and the game comes out better for it. Maybe people without lives will be the only ones to end up being completely independent in a few months, but MMO's typically go on for a while. It's not unreasonable to assume that a good percentage of normal players could get enough jobs maxed to be self sufficient in the next year or two. And the only reason you couldn't be good at everything right now is the stat allocation being a hindrance.

I don't think there is a "should be" situation at all. Crafters are supposed to level more crafting classes, combat folks are supposed to level more combat classes, same applies to gatherers. Very few will have time and interest for all three, aside from trying them out anyway.

lol, ok. So then why after starting a DoW can I switch to DoH? SE should fix that so people don't get the wrong idea. And I think most people would want to be able to do all three, at least because it's beneficial to be able to make/repair your own gear, and to gather your own mats to craft things.

[Hyan]

I think you can easily make them a side activity, and the game comes out better for it.

Nnnnnope. I've already explained why. You can disagree, but stop acting like what you say is the fact of the matter.

lol, ok. So then why after starting a DoW can I switch to DoH? SE should fix that so people don't get the wrong idea. And I think most people would want to be able to do all three, at least because it's beneficial to be able to make/repair your own gear, and to gather your own mats to craft things.

A) People can try out different playstyles until they find one that suits them.

B) People can change their playstyle if deemed necessary without having to make an alt.

As long as DoW can get by without having to level those classes, I don't think so. It's more beneficial to buy the mats from others if you have the cash because it's still faster than taking up a DoL. Right now people just act like shit matters when you're rank 20. Repair problem has various solutions that do not need to involve any crappy changes to the underlying systems. Repair kits made by crafters and so on.

"Should I buy these kits with the money I have or should I take up Blacksmith to 75 instead? Oh, what a dilemma."

[Elrina]

I'll be making an announcement about an announcement tomorrow. Look forward to it!

Your sarcasm aside, I think you greatly underestimate the amount of people that would reassure that something was coming, whether it was coming tomorrow or next week.

[Hyan]

I would be completely shocked to hear something was coming someday, quite honestly.

Oh yeah, sarcasm aside.. A documentary "my life as a director" would be interesting. Ohhh yeah, don't they have that "live feed" on POL that broadcasts Vana'diel 24/7? Let's make it a reality TV.

Alright alright goddamnit.

[jPuff]

They are already actual part of gameplay, hence the commonly used term "Crafting fantasy XIV".

I'm talking about something more than spamming standard and playing the market for kicks which is exactly the extent of the crafting "gameplay."

[Erza]

I hate the armoury system, with locked levels in FFXI it gave you something to look forward to when leveling, hope they change it.

[The Q]

I'll be making an announcement about an announcement tomorrow. Look forward to it!

TOMORROW'S THE DAY!

[Elrina]

After watching the trailer for FF Versus XIII from today's SE event, thinking about XIV and what it could have been makes me want to cry.

[Nevex]

Yeah I gave up with this game. Just don't see the reason about pretending I'm enjoying this instead of actually enjoying SE's offline games. No offline FF has disappointed me so far so I'll just stick to those.

[Hyan]

After watching the trailer for FF Versus XIII from today's SE event, thinking about XIV and what it could have been makes me want to cry.

Yep, it could have been exactly like Versus because there's nothing else to take into consideration when making an MMO as opposed to a single player game.