Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Lucavi]

Why they never made an attempt to differentiate visually the zones within a region I just cannot understand.

Too much work. Must get game out before WoW. Must cash-grab before the king takes all the money away.

[Kaylia]

Why they never made an attempt to differentiate visually the zones within a region I just cannot understand.

#1 Technological constraints: No zone can use more than X amount of rams at any points (ps3 limitations, and self imposed limit for pc). Having a larger palette has a direct impact on this.

#2 Graphics quality versus time constraints: The prettier the graphics are, the longer it takes for an artist to make anything (not always, but true in general). Since FFXIV is very detailled, it probably takes more time to create a diversified environment

#3 Shitty engine: I'm just guessing, but after seeing how terrible their UI for the game is, I can only imagine how counterintuitive their graphics engine must be for the staff.


Lack of communication between the graphics team and the rest of the development is probably one of the main reason though. Most "quest based mmo" design their world around the questline, and the world will shape itself like this. In FFXIV, the world and the content seem completely disconected.

[The Q]

Wouldn't even be as big an issue if there were landmarks and points of interest. Something.

I mean DCUO only has two open world zones (discounting Watchtower, instances, etc) yet still manages to have so much more variation that I'm constantly finding new things.

[Lucavi]

Stop comparing this to Western games. SE is a superior Japanese company and produces superior Japanese products.

[jPuff]

making HD games is hard ok

[Hyan]

I can see that Thanalan has quite a few areas that are very distinctive from each other. La Noscea less so.. but I think it's dungeons are better. I just wish it would have more proper beach design. Shit looks cool. Gridania is just horrible.

Thanalan's problem is that the zone's toooo laaarge. If it was like Mor Dhona things would be completely different, as there's enough uniqueness in it for a zone that large.

As the starting zones were probably the first to be created I hope they learned to use their engine more effectively for the remaining 5 regions... and do not go overboard with the size.

[Kaylia]

I can see that Thanalan has quite a few areas that are very distinctive from each other. La Noscea less so.. but I think it's dungeons are better. I just wish it would have more proper beach design. Shit looks cool. Gridania is just horrible.

Thanalan's problem is that the zone's toooo laaarge. If it was like Mor Dhona things would be completely different, as there's enough uniqueness in it for a zone that large.

As the starting zones were probably the first to be created I hope they learned to use their engine more effectively for the remaining 5 regions... and do not go overboard with the size.

The issue isn't limited to landscapes (even if it's a big one), what we need is landmark like buildings, ruins, towns, or monster's lair. You have a world, and you have its inhabitants, but there is absolutely no connection between both.

If I'm fighting spiders, I want to see spider webs, eggs, and tiny spiders critters everywhere. If there is thieves in the lore, I want to see them hang in an old abandonned building or castle. If there is peiste, I want to see the nests, and how they feed on the weak fauna around (add a few carcass on the ground close to their nest). A few monsters can be randomly distributed accross the map (especially generic fauna like moles and dodo), but it can't be everything


I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point. This is the kind of thing the world map is missing the most right now imo. FFXI was also weak at this, but it still did much better in overall. Beastman actually gave the impression there was something going on, even if it wasnt much.

The next screenshot look great imo, but at the same time, it show how barren the land is. Why can't they add a big tower on one of the cliff? Why can't they adds 15-20 fisherman house near the sea and create some sort of commercial route between that hubs and uldah. That would give the area a well needed life.

Spoiler: show

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9715/ffxiv.jpg

You don't need to go overboard like WoW and have 500 microclimate or differents palette per square mile, but it's definitively possible to have more than 1 or 2 points of interest per zone.

[Hyan]

I kinda wish that they would give this an "explanation" in the lore at least. Even if it was an excuse in the end.

Now that there is no such thing as "beastmen invasion" aside from the lore, it doesn't make sense that the city-states haven't built anything more than simple camps and few towns around the place. But if the places are in a more war-like state, that should "explain" the empty landscapes, since the states can't really expand. As they have planned beastmen invasions in the hamlets, it is clear that Eorzea isn't as peaceful as the current state of the game seems to suggest. Much less so than XI in it's status-quo, where the already weakened beastmen were just hanging around. I expect something more like ToAU in this respect.

Still gotta up the quality for the next zones, but this should do.

[Kaylia]

Just because they are invaded once in a while doesnt mean existing towns would melt and disappears. But even if it was the case, it would still be a very lazy excuse. The current city don't look assieged at all, and everyone seem to have good time. You can't have this sort of ambiance in the city, and say the war is raging outside...it makes no sense.

There is no excuse for the emptiness in my opinion. Even if it worked with the lore and they were telling the best story ever, it would still be a flat and boring world. This isnt something you should ever aim for in a game.

[Hyan]

It doesn't excuse the lack of ruins and such but as for no commercial routes and the lack of life outside the hubs (aside from adventurers) and such, it should do.

I mean Whitegate didn't seem like it was in a war either imo, and the battles haven't progressed past the hamlets yet anyway. WoTG felt more like they were in a war but it was a collaborative effort of the beastmen, shadowlord and odin which made them a bigger threat. Anyone in the hamlets shouldn't be having a good time, that's for sure though.

[Kaylia]

FFXI is not the best reference in term of world design. It's better than what we have right now, but not that much.


Anyway, like I said in my last post, it doesn't matter what excuse they use, an empty world is always going to be less interesting than one that is properly designed. As it is, the three cities feel out of place, and no amount of excuses is goin't to fix the impression you get from the world.

[Hyan]

Well, it matters to me.. It's not like the game world alone can immerse me, but I'd still like to get to XI level before I'm satisfied with it.

[Sephiroth]

There's some areas of Thanalan and Shroud that are blocked off that may have some uniqueness to them. Like those mako reactor looking things near BlueFog in Thanalan. Apparently that huge open area in the northeast of Nine Ivies in the Shroud (you'll know it when you look at the map) is closed off too. What awaits in these places? I still think it's more a case of the unique features being drowned out by a lot of repeated garbage.

Thanalan has plenty unique features. Those canyons on the way to Broken Water and Blue Fog, those areas below on the way to the sea port, those huge rock formations (even if over used), that area near BlueFog I mentioned. Even that mountain you go up towards Copperbell Mines. Now if all that was in a zone the size of Mor Dhona no one would complain.

The Shroud has its lakes, marshes and some ruins in the far north, but again too large. The narrow paths would be fine for one section of the forest, but they should have included a Ronfaure type forest too.

La Noscea has its islands and beaches, but again drowned out by too much of the same crap. That beach area near Bloodshore could have been Valkurm v2 if they'd designed it right.

Those hamlets in each region would play a bigger role if the regions were smaller too. SE clearly forgot quality over quantity. I mean, 2/3 of the aetherial gates in each region aren't even used right now. It's obvious that SE kept them for rank 50/60/70 leves some day but that was a bad idea. High rank leves should begin in areas like Coerthas and Mor Dhona and be more challenging. Maybe Ishgard will hand out those leves, it would make sense.

[Corrderio]

I think those buildings are supposed to be part of Mor Dohna since they have with the most technology, and they're in the general direction to it.

The more I think of it the more I am curious how events will turn out in the following months for updates. Personally I'd welcome a wipe if Yoshi-P could redo nearly everything to the point it feels like a new game. From classes, to economy, to the battle system, main scenario quests, etc. However since he already said no to a wipe going to be interesting.

[blythe]

This might just be wishful thinking, but it seemed to me that when he said there wouldn't be a wipe, he was just reassuring people that all their progress wouldn't be lost. It's still possible we could get a total rehash of the armoury system, it'd just be in a way that you could somehow reallocate all your previously gained EXP/SP into the new classes.

[The Q]

Fuck it. Bring it. I'm willing to make the sacrifice. Not going to happen but still.

These next few weeks are going to be filled with anticipation. I'll wager we'll start seeing teasers for the new update next week if not Friday. SE likes to do cliffhanger stuff like that on Fridays.

[solracht]

It's still possible we could get a total rehash of the armoury system, it'd just be in a way that you could somehow reallocate all your previously gained EXP/SP into the new classes.

He actually hinted at this in the interview zam translated... or at least I understood it that way:

Yoshida: As a policy of mine, I would absolutely never do a wipe. While there may be adjustments that significantly alter the meaning of one's physical level or skill ranks, I would still allow players to reallocate their stats. By the way, I actually wrote those questions myself, and I purposely referred to Eorzea, not FFXIV, in the question. What do I mean by the "rules of Eorzea?" That is something I'd like you to speculate about.

[Corrderio]

This might just be wishful thinking, but it seemed to me that when he said there wouldn't be a wipe, he was just reassuring people that all their progress wouldn't be lost. It's still possible we could get a total rehash of the armoury system, it'd just be in a way that you could somehow reallocate all your previously gained EXP/SP into the new classes.

Which to me justifies a wipe. If the game is going to go in a new direction so much it's basically a different game I'd favor a wipe, not like I spent any money on the game other than the game disc.

[The Q]

You have to think of the people, though a minority, who have put in all the time to grind max rank. In addition to all the time spent by the average player as well. While you or I don't mind I'm sure more people will than not. We'll just have to wait and see. Either way there's going to be some form of migration.

[blythe]

Yeah I'm nowhere near the cap... in fact the only time I spend on this game now is the occasional behest if I happen to be bored right before the hour. But if I wasn't assured that SP would matter in the long run, I wouldn't even bother with that. The last thing this game needs is to be discouraging players from actually logging in.

And just to be clear, I absolutely think this game needs to be gutted, at least on the DoW/DoM end of things. But completely erasing all progress would turn off a huge chunk of players, myself included.