Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Hyan]

When we get the March content update we'll see where they're at

They will be coming monthly from now on- and while you're right in that since September we've seen almost no content, Yoshida seems to push for monthly content updates while they fix the broken systems. It may take 6-7 months instead of 3-4 but it's not relevant- what's relevant is the PS3 release/when they start charging for subs, and while they can't stall it forever whether it's 4 or 7 months shouldn't make much of a difference.

the more time goes by the less 1-40 content matters because more people will pass it by completely.

And I don't think this matters either. Even if the "majority" of current players pass by the content during that time, it's only a fraction of players they should be shooting for. If they weren't, we wouldn't be getting this sort of attention from them right now. It may be all for vain, but 50k (or whatever insignificant number it is) won't cut it.

The media isn't going to help S-E market the game

Fairly cynic opinion but I think media is still unbiased enough to give the PS3 release a good score if it deserves it. And if it doesn't deserve it, the playerbase won't market this game for anyone either.

[Kaylia]

The game is too far behind its competition to get a good score. They can polish it all the want, most people will still find it boring.

[Lucavi]

Longer it takes for this game to gain traction, the higher the bar will be set towards significance as denoted by the other games in the field. XIV is going to have to tangle with, obviously WoW, but also with Rift, Tera, GW2, and Star Wars.

That's not going to be easy for anyone, much less a company that received an absolutely abysmal opening display.

[Sephiroth]

I don't expect Rift, Tera, GW2, or Star Wars to do well because they aren't WoW and they won't have five years of post-launch development. People will expect too much from those and complain about a lack of content etc. at launch with those too and move on to the next one. Rift looks good in the trailers but so did FFXIV.

[Lucavi]

Uhh... I'll just say that I'm excited to see what the future holds for MMOs. I'll leave it at that.

[Sephiroth]

Lots of failed launches until WoW2 comes out is my guess. It's FFXIV or nothing for me, I'm not putting in this much time to a game again.

[Arximiro]

It's free and I can't even force myself to play.. Maybe I'm just too old for this mmo shit after all those years on XI.

[Corrderio]

Nah it's not just you. I've been bored of the game to lately since it's the same thing day in and day out: Do leves > botanay > carpentry > repeat.

The only real reason I'm sticking to this game is because I don't trust MMOs a lot since most of them will try to find a way to squeeze money out of you if they don't have a monthly subscription, even then there's a shot they'll add some kind of perk/premium bullshit to get more money out of you. But then again a lot of online games are getting that way now.

[Elrina]

I'm not going to argue that x MMO is better than y MMO, but seriously, come on. FFXIV is fucking terrible. It is an awful example of any game's release, including MMOs. Being cynical about MMOs in general, and especially others coming out simply because they aren't made by Blizzard is silly.

There are other games that are actually fun to play at release. They may be missing some content, or may be buggy, like in the past, but during the first 1-3 months they're fun in a way XIV never was. And while I personally am not that thrilled with what I've seen of Rift, it (seems like) the new big 4 MMOs releasing that I can think of (Rift, TERA, SW: tOR, GW2) are trying to not hit that same pitfall that caused the major MMO launches in the last several years to fail. They want to make sure they're ready, and even if they aren't as filled as WoW or XI or whatever, they will more than likely be fun out of the box.

Not wanting to dedicate time to one of them, because you're either cynical after seeing FFXIV or after having made yourself play through it's completely shitty design and implementation, is just you losing out on actual potential fun simply because you forced yourself to waste time with garbage because it was FFXIV.

There are still ways I believe Yoshida can pull this game off. I hope, as many others probably do, that it will be transformed incrementally into something good and fun and enjoyable that can be updated and expanded in the future in awesome ways that actually make us want to play and spend our time in XIV. But if they don't pull it off, and until they do, crossing potentially fun games off your list simply because you played a bad game is really silly.

[Hyan]

Being cynical about MMOs in general, and especially others coming out simply because they aren't made by Blizzard is silly.

No, it is completely reasonable and you are dumb if you think otherwise. These games fucking suck. This isn't some "FFXIV" thing as much as you seem to imply that. Okay, sure, you have this stinking, wet pile and then you have this slightly older crap that has stopped stinking yet all the flies hover around it. Its all the same pathetic substance regardless.

Not to mention... lol

There are other games that are actually fun to play at release.

"This shit doesn't stink! It's gotta be good!"

Yes, there are other games that are fun straight from the box. They are not called MMORPG's.

The game is too far behind its competition

That's why it should flank attack with shit other MMO's seem to be uncapable of doing. Shit that you can't grasp because your view is the "right" view. If this somehow implies that other MMO's are "too good" compared to XIV, you are retarded. MMO's haven't just moved on since 2002. They have also gotten worse.

[Elrina]

No, it is completely reasonable and you are dumb if you think otherwise. These games fucking suck. This isn't some "FFXIV" thing as much as you seem to imply that. Okay, sure, you have this stinking, wet pile and then you have this slightly older crap that has stopped stinking yet all the flies hover around it. Its all the same pathetic substance regardless.

Not to mention... lol

Aren't you one of the people who claim you don't like WoW, and don't want a game that plays like it? What you don't grasp is that it is only your opinion that these other games are trash. Most of the people I know of that played AoC, Warhammer or Aion enjoyed them... at first. Initially, they were actually fun. Yes, for a variety of reasons each game failed to be fulfilling in the end, and ultimately fell by the wayside, whether it was a few weeks or few months. Yet my point remains that, at least for a time, however brief, they weren't considered shit. They were considered games that lacked this or that, but were fun and had potential. Not living up to that potential, and what they became regarded as afterward, doesn't negate the fun that was experienced at the beginning.

XIV never delivered even this initial grace period of fun and enjoyment, right from the beginning it was lacking in almost every way.

"This shit doesn't stink! It's gotta be good!"

Yes, there are other games that are fun straight from the box. They are not called MMORPG's.

Yes, yes, we've already established that you think MMO gameplay is always bad by nature, blah blah blah. Fortunately, we aren't discussing you. We're discussing people in general, whether the blind masses or informed fans or completely ignorant people that for some reason or another become interested in a particular game.

Unlike you, as far as I know, most people play games (including MMOs) to have fun. They want to enjoy the game, and enjoy themselves while playing the game, which is why they pay for it as entertainment. Games of every genre have a quality that varies, from good to bad, and MMOs are no different. Your opinion, however much you enjoy flouting it as if it were fact, does not negate this.

That's why it should flank attack with shit other MMO's seem to be uncapable of doing. Shit that you can't grasp because your view is the "right" view. If this somehow implies that other MMO's are "too good" compared to XIV, you are retarded. MMO's haven't just moved on since 2002. They have also gotten worse.

I realize that my opinion is my opinion. I try to base it as much as I can in what I know is true, and attempt to make educated guesses and assumptions based on that knowledge. Your belief that MMOs have gotten worse does not make it so. Do I believe the new MMOs releasing will be fun? Yes, I do. Do I think I will personally find each of them fun? Probably not. They're different kinds of games, different kinds of MMOs, despite trends and inevitable similarities.

I don't even believe SE capable of the kind of true innovation you speak of. Because not only does it require the idea, but it requires implementing that idea, and they've never shown very exceptional ability with the second part even if they nailed the initial concept. Do I hope that Yoshida will help right this ship? I've repeatedly stated that I do, because I played FFXI for 5+ years, and I'm a Final Fantasy fan, and this is the game I would prefer to be playing.

But I almost hope they don't at the same time. At the top of BG is a tab called "XI Drama" that leads to links to threads of that very nature, and I spent some time a week or so ago reading through some of them and remembering some of the completely bastardly things SE has done to their customers and players, from customer service issues to billing issues to GM issues to game related issues. I could go on for pages with specific examples, but everyone already knows and can remember and easily find the evidence of it. They deserve this failure.

I don't believe any other game is naturally better, or too good, compared to XIV. I simply consider Final Fantasy XIV, since it's release date to current day, as a shitty game through and through. I remember other games at their release dates, and new games coming to their own release dates, that for at least a time are accepted as fun and filled with potential. FFXIV isn't alone in the potential it had and possibly has. You may believe the genre is stagnating, and it's possible that you're accurate, but that doesn't change the fact that it's entirely possible for people to pick one up for the first time and enjoy themselves thoroughly while playing it. And that isn't really something people can do with Final Fantasy XIV right now, so making judgements on other games because of the experience in this one is simply ignorance.

[Hyan]

What you don't grasp is that it is only your opinion that these other games are trash.

Haha. If you want to prove me wrong, prove me that these games aren't shitty as fuck. Objectively. There are people out there who enjoy being shat on. Of course there is a demographic that likes these "games", there is a demographic that thinks Creationism is true, there is a demographic that thinks earlier FF's were "good games".. You can find supporters for anything. There is a demographic that liked XIV from the beginning. Yes, it exists. It doesn't change the fact that none of these titles are objectively good, fun, nor entertaining.

What is it? The amazing gameplay that beats that of any other action RPG? The impressive story these games come out with? The spectacular graphics that make Crysis look like it was made for SNES? The brilliant community and cooperative aspects that were made secondary features somewhere along the way for the sake of convenience? The phenomenal PvP that consists of a) gear b) class c) level ......................................... z) skill? "The feeling of a world"... at least until you start raiding in small instances and PvPing in battlegrounds for the rest of your playtime?

Yes, yes, we've already established that you think MMO gameplay is always bad by nature, blah blah blah.

1 1 1 2 2 2 3 1 2 1. Did you lose? Level up or get better gear.

Fortunately, we aren't discussing you.

Why should we? These "games" speak for themselves.

Games of every genre have a quality that varies, from good to bad, and MMOs are no different

Yes, from totally crap to a bit less crap. But that's only if we start comparing genres. That would be, however, a bit unfair for MMO's.

Your opinion, however much you enjoy flouting it as if it were fact, does not negate this.

I realize that my opinion is my opinion.

I don't care about your (rather crappy) opinion. These games are not good. That is no opinion, that is a fact. Any other genre in existence does this shit better than MMO's do. The gameplay is poor, the competitive aspects are unbalanced by nature, the "skill" depends on everything else except your skill, the gameplay is mediocre at best and convenience has taken over the interaction aspect, in a true American individualistic way. Prove me wrong.

Do I believe the new MMOs releasing will be fun? Yes, I do.

Well, you are an idealistic person. The past, the present, and the future yell at your ear to come to your senses, but ~you will always believe~.

blah blah blah bias bias bias

If you can't back up your shit objectively, don't even bother replying to me. I could care less about what you think if it's based on your "emotion" and "how you feel". True innovation is never perfect out of the box, and it does not need to be. This is a fact. This is not some shitty opinion. Criticizing them for "not nailing it" is the dumbest shit you could possibly say. Nobody "nails it" the first time.

They deserve this failure.

What the fuck is this shit again? Exactly how emotional are you going to get over them? What the fuck does this shit have to do with what we're talking about? You are like a schizophrenic. First you say how you "prefer playing this game", then you go on about how "THEY DESERVE EVERYTHING THEY'RE GETTING". While none of this has nothing to do with anything. Get a grip.

And that isn't really something people can do with Final Fantasy XIV right now

Oh, you should visit ZAM one of these days. Whatever I may have been accused of being in the past, they put me to shame, completely. If you really want to go down this way, I can find you a demographic for any game no matter how shitty it was objectively speaking that liked/likes playing said game. If you have nothing of importance to say and are just pissed at my tone again, stop speaking already.

[Lucavi]

Yes, there are other games that are fun straight from the box. They are not called MMORPG's.

Jaaaadeeeed. I'm sorry you're not having fun, Hyan.

[Hyan]

Don't take it the wrong way bro, I'm having fun playing good games (or interactive movies!) as we speak. And it's only gonna get better this year it seems. Still, those games can't offer me all that XIV could offer. They can, however, offer me something better than what these other MMO's bring to the table. Sad, indeed.

[solracht]

Are you unloading before they temp-ban you again, Hyan? The last page seems awfully familiar.

Or did I miss why they did that last time?

[The Q]

Uhh... I'll just say that I'm excited to see what the future holds for MMOs. I'll leave it at that.

Oooh I'll make my predictions. Having over 14 years MMO experience this is what I see going down:

RIFT will be successful. Not hugely but I believe it will do better than most people expect. For what it is, which is basically an amalgam of many elements from major popular MMOs, it gets more right than it does wrong. A lot more. RIFT, from what I have played, isn't just a "WoW-clone + gimmick feature" that all the so called WoW-Killers have been so far. If anything it is exactly what WoW was: an amalgamation of what was successful in other games at the time and building upon that. RIFT will definitely be a good game on launch for those who like those types of MMOs.

Tera is a Korean game. That means it looks pretty but will probably be a grind from hell, play boring as shit, have click to move style gameplay and most likely have some kind of cash shop shit built in. Honestly I don't know much about this game beyond a few screens and the fact that it is Korean made. Very biased here so take this prediction with a grain of salt if you will. That said I have never seen a Korean MMO worth a damn ever, no matter how pretty they may be. Vindictus isn't bad, but that's more Monster Hunter than MMO.

Star Wars: ToR will have one of the biggest launches in the history of MMO's, rivaling and possibly exceeding WoW. This is mainly because of two things, two names actually: Star Wars and BioWare. It was the same situation with WoW when it released, in my opinion. Had that game not had Warcraft and Blizzard attached I don't think it would have done NEAR as well as it ever did. Anyways back to the point. After an initial launch of BIG NUMBERS I see a significant portion of those sales opting out of subscription within the first three months. It will still have a large user base, just not HUUUGE. I feel this will happen because for one, the graphics really aren't that great. Two, the gameplay from what has been shown is just same old shit. And three, there's still question if it will be a true MMO. Star Wars: ToR will do well but won't really bring anything new to the table.

Guild Wars 2 is the enigma of the bunch. We've seen some videos and stuff but there's still a lot we don't know and the game is very far off. I think it will do very well on client sales as it is supposed to use the same no-subscription model as its predecessor, but not knowing what kind of payment or cash shop system they will have to actually make revenue I can't predict what the userbase will do. As of right now it is too early to call. Game looks pretty though, and I am looking forward to more information.

Spoiler: show

Now to wait and see how people try to tell me my predictions are wrong and how I'm stupid because they're from the future, or World of Warcraft or some shit.

Also I share Elrina's sentiments almost exactly.

[Hyan]

Now to wait and see how people try to tell me my predictions are wrong and how I'm stupid because they're from the future, or World of Warcraft or some shit.

You mean somebody would disagree with you? On a discussion forum even? Give me the name if it ever happens so I can tell him not to have a discussion with you again, that would be simply improper and rude. It's clear you aren't looking to discuss anything for posting here. Then later we can all bash the guy for having the nerve to reply to you.

[The Q]

You mean somebody would disagree with you? On a discussion forum even? Give me the name if it ever happens so I can tell him not to have a discussion with you again, that would be simply improper and rude. It's clear you aren't looking to discuss anything for posting here. Then later we can all bash the guy for having the nerve to reply to you.

Thinking outside the box to troll. Good job.

I meant people trying to say I'm wrong about predictions that can't be, at present time, wrong or right. I'm not talking about someone disagreeing with me but straight up telling me I'm wrong, or saying I'm stupid because I have a different opinion than they. Though in a roundabout out of the box way you kinda fulfilled that last one.

[Hyan]

I meant people trying to say I'm wrong about predictions that can't be, at present time, wrong or right.

If the facts back it up, yes, they can be wrong or right. You know opinions can be wrong, don't you?

Like let's see

Tera is a Korean game. That means it will play boring as shit

The gameplay is pretty damn close to C9, and if you've seen vids of that game, you know it's gameplay is solid in all standards (especially MMO standards). BG people have played in the Korean OB and agree that it's gameplay is great.

Oh man, this is me saying your opinion is wrong, based on facts. How can it be? I can go even further and say that you're wrong. But that makes me a troll, because opinions can not be wrong. Granted, this may be subjective but you were talking in a bit too general tone for that to be the case and when objectively compared to other MMO's, it's just straight up untrue statement.

[The Q]

What makes you a troll is you left out the part where I openly admitted that I was biased and had little information on the game and was going off of my experiences with every other Korean game I had played. Selective quotation and arguing out of context are classic troll maneuvers.

Also you presented no facts. BG people generally agree that you're a troll so that makes it fact that you're a troll, right?

Do my opinions and predictions really bother you that much? Is your ass THAT sore?