Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Lordender]

Lol FFXI challenging? this was how everything endgame was killed outside of PW and AV when I played the game from release until 2007.

OH LORD, I HOPE MY TANK CAN COUNT TO 3(4 if nin)
OMGZ DOES THE MOB HAVE, Slow(eventually SLOW 2) AND ELEGY?
PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW it with blms if it was a cop wyrm or pew pew pew pew it with melee/K.clubs for zergs fights.

Salvage was all RNG challenge, sometimes you got lucky with cells and sometimes you got jewed.

AV and PW were retarded and challenging for the wrong reasons, complete and utter fail by design.

Pre nerf CoP fights/Divine Might in its heyday were probably the only real challenge the game ever had when I played. Eventually Divine Might became a blm burn fest but back when the first groups of NA got to level cap it was a big feat to win that battle.

[Sephiroth]

Levelling in XIV isn't difficult any more. My shield was rank 1 on Friday, it's now 29 and a half. That's mostly just from leves and behests and the surplus still isn't so bad that I get less SP than non-surplus pre-patch. In fact I think I am only losing 30%. In the same time my CON has done 28-36. Before it resets I am going to get another two shield ranks and another CON rank off my leves tonight. So I don't think it's unreasonable to say you can do 1-40 in two weeks. Another two weeks and you're 50. That's fast enough surely? If I grinded lots on top of what I am doing I could easily have gone 28-40. I'd say about 60k of my SP came from grinding, which is what, 3 hours? You don't even need to grind in this game to level any more unless you do want to reach 50 insanely fast. I'm sure you could cut 1-50 down to 3 weeks but why bother? Grinding is boring and you can reach 50 entirely through questing content if you choose to.

SE just needs to make leves and behests more fun. People only say they suck because they've been doing them for months, they were fun when I started and the leves and behests were still new and unpredictable. If the playerbase didn't congregate in Thanalan I could have the same fun in La Noscea and Shroud because I've done barely any 40 leves and behests from those regions. Mix things up! People shouldn't complain so much about lack of low rank content when they ignore 2/3 of what is there. A new player should be able to rank up to 50 while having fun.

Right, the average new player isn't in an LS where they'll get leve links. Fix party search, form pick up groups, problem solved. SE is getting there, but the players need to change their attitudes too and stop treating the game as a single region. The most retarded example is the stories of Horizon behests with 30+ people waiting while camp Tranquil is almost always empty and Bloodshore is somewhere inbetween. Rank 30 behests have even more choices, yet half the server congregates in Nanawa Mines which is probably the worst 30 behest for people ruining it by not doing it properly.

[Elrina]

I don't see that as really awful, 3-4 weeks is a nice time period for leveling up to 50, especially once they raise the cap higher than 50 and that grows progressively higher/longer to reach cap.

Granted, it would have been better to do after there was active content to mix things up, but what can you do? You guys are the guinea pigs at this point, you get to experience the changes as they come. It's likely that by PS3 release/subscription fee time there will be content to go with it, possibly quests and mini-quests with exp to offer an alternative or companion to leves so that no grinding is necessary at all, and that's a good thing.

I really found Leves dry and annoying from the beginning. The first time I did a set of 8? Cool, fine, sure. Second time? No prob. But after that they were already getting old, you shouldn't have to be extremely selective of Leves to get ones that are worth anything, the reward should be a flat return after completing it not from dragging it out. And from what I hear, it seems like a lot of people don't even complete their leves, but rather fail them deliberately in order to keep them longer to leve link. If that's how the leve link system works, it's completely bogus and stupid, imo. Give a full list of available leves for your level range, so you can complete and turn them in each time, damn. That way people at similar level ranges can leve link simply by selecting the same ones, without needing to worry about random factors.

And you're saying fix the players should stop treating the game as a single region, and SE should fix party search. But it's SE's choice to have made that the "most efficient" (apparently) local available. The others should be balanced asap simply to be more rewarding to entice people there (and I don't see why it wouldn't be an easy and quick thing to do). Adding a flag and search function would be nice, but wouldn't necessarily fix the apparent lack of population from what I've read and heard directly about, nevermind having a linkshell for leve links. I still argue that merging the current population onto as few servers as would fit them to full capacity (or really close) is the answer to a current problem and a later one.

It would immediately make more people available. Tweak the other regions, tweak behest itself a little, and voila. Three times an hour, people can still only do it once, and a greater capacity for who gets in and suddenly the amount of people more than triples in each region. Tweak the others to encourage people to go there and boom. And yeah, there will be some added conflict from there actually being full servers, but it's necessary. The servers should be full (even if it takes merging them later) anyway, and content should be balanced and tweaked for it being full, not for how it is now. And this would make it a lot easier for people to find others to level with, to find linkshells that want people, etc. Population would help more than hurt. And I say it again, it will help all the new people, who both know about the game and don't know who start at the PS3 release, to have clean and empty servers to begin on without pre-existing prejudice, inflation or expectations where they can all learn on their own from the beginning of how the game is at that stage in development.

[solracht]

In my opinion, just because the potential to level fast exists in the game it doesn't mean that the game has fast leveling. To clarify, as Sephiroth mentions on his last point: the average players will not be linking with 15 people every day and a half. Instead, they'll probably solo their leves or link with a couple friends, and most likely leave in frustration after they've run out of guardian's favor because the system is designed around a high amount of links and they're not getting anywhere.

Right now (and even if they add a search function) there's no choice: Guildleves are a limited resource. If you want to level up quickly, you have to link with a lot of people. Using your guildleves the wrong way pretty much means you lock yourself out of the leveling system.

I can't think of any reason to explain why we should be leveling around a system which behaves like an endgame one, but maybe that's just me.

[Sephiroth]

It's not really necessary to only have the best leves and cancel them on the last mob to repeat. It's the most efficient way yes but people will always look for ways to exploit the system to get the most benefit. Although it is SE's fault for making some leves 2-3 times as good as others. My leve groups just take all 6 from Thanalan and get a lot of links that way. We complete the best ones because people like faction points to get their rune gear. You're trading those potential rune gear for more SP if you cancel them so it depends what you see as more important.

The problem with your idea of giving the SP reward at the end of the leve and making them all equal is the same problem as current, just the opposite. The number of mobs is what makes some leves better than others right now. If you make the SP rewards all equal time becomes the best factor in leve completion and the fastest leves become the best while the ones with lots of mobs become the worst. You can't balance the number of mobs due to the variation in leve types. Some have X number of mobs while others can have anywhere from 10 to 30 mobs due to having to farm drops. They could still boost the ones that are currently deemed crap however.

You could make the rewards better in other regions but it has to be dynamic because then everyone will just go congregate there. I'm sure the regions aren't bad and people just stick to Thanalan out of convenience. Certainly all the 30 camps seem equal to me, I can't say the same for 40s due to lack of experience. Yet most people still do the Thanalan 30s if they aren't using that cancel method. I have just the solution for that. Add a small SP multiplier on leves you exchange from a different region in the same way a multiplier is added to marks and gil.

More strategic leves wouldn't hurt too, ones that take most of the 30 minutes and have potential to fail if you mess up. But they've got to be worth doing because people won't do them no matter how fun they are if they'll get more SP repeating the same leve for the 100th time. Those defender leves are pathetic from what they could have been.

Server merges would be for the best, I agree. If I were starting at PS3 release I'd find it offputting that there's people already with half a dozen 50s and hundreds of millions of gil (as there will be by then). But they need to still keep some capacity so that PS3 players can choose to join their friends.

In my opinion, just because the potential to level fast exists in the game it doesn't mean that the game has fast leveling. To clarify, as Sephiroth mentions on his last point: the average players will not be linking with 15 people every day and a half. Instead, they'll probably solo their leves or link with a couple friends, and most likely leave in frustration after they've run out of guardian's favor because the system is designed around a high amount of links and they're not getting anywhere.

Right now (and even if they add a search function) there's no choice: Guildleves are a limited resource. If you want to level up quickly, you have to link with a lot of people. Using your guildleves the wrong way pretty much means you lock yourself out of the leveling system.

I can't think of any reason to explain why we should be leveling around a system which behaves like an endgame one, but maybe that's just me.

If the search system let you see who had the same leves as you people would choose to form leve parties with randoms at camps rather than group with people in their LS where they may only get 0-1 links on some leves. The link cap is 3 anyway so you don't need 15 people to get good SP. Currently smaller groups work best sticking to the same two camps or communicating before picking the leves by asking who has what. I've done many leve runs with less than 10 people. It's rare I have more. A good search system would go a long way.

[solracht]

I wasn't disagreeing with a search system going a long way. I completely agree.

However, the problems I see with the system are simply tied to what the guildleves themselves are. When you only have eight per reset and leves have the potential for the highest skillups compared to everything else, you have to optimize. I see this a problem, but we might disagree here.

There's also no chance for dynamic play to happen in this system: If you're doing your own leve, you can't join a random person's. If you're doing your own leve, you can't join a behest. If you have two leves with close mobs, you can't do both at once. If you're doing a leve and disconnect, move regions, or it turns out you have to log out, you fail. Everything in the system is about planning, preparation and sticking to what you started until its completition.

As I said, to me the guildleve system feels like an endgame system that's being used while leveling, more than anything else. To an extent, I don't even think it's a fundamentally bad or flawed system, I just don't think it's being used in the right place.

[Nartosar]

So, if I assume this should be where I ask random questions (if not, where should I go?), I have two:
The first is about targeting. I'm levelling my Thaum right now and for example in Behest, there'll be a bunch of mobs fighting at once. In FFXI, <bt> was simple enough, but now I wonder what people use to easily and quickly retarget mid-battle with the keyboard only. I've been tabing, but it's slow and inacurate.

The second is about what you guys just said. What's that trick way of using leves and linking/cancelling them? I'm not familiar with it at all since when I play, I only ever cross paths with like three people.

Thanks!

[Drakath]

Unfortunately I agree the leveling system in this game is heavily flawed. Yes, the potential for great SP is there, but it's incredibly inaccessible for the majority of players. Which would be fine if the difference between the great SP and the "average" wasn't so huge. They did a bit to alleviate the problem in the last patch, but not enough. Of course I'm referring to rank 30 and above. As it stands now, if I play FFXIV alone and I log on and say I'm rank 29+... I don't know how to use leves to maximize SP, I know of Behest but the SP gain is severely dropping off around this level... What the fuck am I supposed to do to continue? The answer isn't there and I'm going to feel a sense of defeat.

[Sephiroth]

I wasn't disagreeing with a search system going a long way. I completely agree.

However, the problems I see with the system are simply tied to what the guildleves themselves are. When you only have eight per reset and leves have the potential for the highest skillups compared to everything else, you have to optimize. I see this a problem, but we might disagree here.

There's also no chance for dynamic play to happen in this system: If you're doing your own leve, you can't join a random person's. If you're doing your own leve, you can't join a behest. If you have two leves with close mobs, you can't do both at once. If you're doing a leve and disconnect, move regions, or it turns out you have to log out, you fail. Everything in the system is about planning, preparation and sticking to what you started until its completition.

As I said, to me the guildleve system feels like an endgame system that's being used while leveling, more than anything else. To an extent, I don't even think it's a fundamentally bad or flawed system, I just don't think it's being used in the right place.

They just need to change the leve system to make it work better. I'm sure we all agree the implementation was bad. I think they're already planning changes to improve them but decided other things are more important right now, which is fair enough.

If SE can make their hamlet defence battles give good SP we'll have even more options for levelling outside of grinding. I don't think people would care that they couldn't always get amazing SP on leves if they could go do something else fun for good SP. Again it seems to boil down to not enough content/bad implementations making what little the game has seem worse than it is.

In my opinion, just because the potential to level fast exists in the game it doesn't mean that the game has fast leveling. To clarify, as Sephiroth mentions on his last point: the average players will not be linking with 15 people every day and a half. Instead, they'll probably solo their leves or link with a couple friends, and most likely leave in frustration after they've run out of guardian's favor because the system is designed around a high amount of links and they're not getting anywhere.

Right now (and even if they add a search function) there's no choice: Guildleves are a limited resource. If you want to level up quickly, you have to link with a lot of people. Using your guildleves the wrong way pretty much means you lock yourself out of the leveling system.

I can't think of any reason to explain why we should be leveling around a system which behaves like an endgame one, but maybe that's just me.

Behests can be good until around rank 40. Problem is the lack of 50 behests means you get people in the high 40s ruining the SP for those in the 30s.

SE should have just increased the leve cap while the game is lacking in alternative content. But it's certainly possible to get good SP outside of leves if you don't mind grinding. You can get 20-30k per hour that way with 2-3 other people or go the even more boring route of soloing doblyns.

[Dantrag]

Can we invite anyone we want where ever they are yet?

Can people be kicked from LS's when they're not right in front of you?

[Grey Jorildyn]

So, if I assume this should be where I ask random questions (if not, where should I go?), I have two:
The first is about targeting. I'm levelling my Thaum right now and for example in Behest, there'll be a bunch of mobs fighting at once. In FFXI, <bt> was simple enough, but now I wonder what people use to easily and quickly retarget mid-battle with the keyboard only. I've been tabing, but it's slow and inacurate.

The second is about what you guys just said. What's that trick way of using leves and linking/cancelling them? I'm not familiar with it at all since when I play, I only ever cross paths with like three people.

Thanks!

1. Since THM AoE is front-conal I lock on the battle target since that is both the direction and area where the most amount of players are likely to stand.
2. Try to have 4 total links per leve you do (one starter + 3 perform leve-link). Then do the whole leve but leave one mob up. Cancel the leve (this will place an X by the leve). When leves refresh, talk to the leve counter person and the leves will have their X removed, allowing you to do them again.

Can we invite anyone we want where ever they are yet?

Can people be kicked from LS's when they're not right in front of you?

1. From anywhere in the whole world!
2. No.

[Kaylia]

Then why bring up the lack of difficulty in the first place? Essentially, because the basic contents difficulty in XIV is 'retarded', it is also so in WoW and every other mmo, even if it consists of random minigames and creative quests (which were not around when the game released). Not something I ever expected to hear from you tbh.

Single player rpgs usually have less 'retarded' difficulty too, so that comparison is also surprising.

It's the philosophy around the game design that changed, the release date has nothing to do with it.


Difficulty has nothing to do with leveling. The reason why I brought it up in the first place is that FFXIV current system will not challenge you even after you reach endgame. It will be exactly like FFXI where you figure out 2-3 strategies that works, and repeat the same shit everywhere. That's what going to happens because their shitty designs would make anything else too annoying or hard to design.

[Nartosar]

2. Try to have 4 total links per leve you do (one starter + 3 perform leve-link). Then do the whole leve but leave one mob up. Cancel the leve (this will place an X by the leve). When leves refresh, talk to the leve counter person and the leves will have their X removed, allowing you to do them again.

I don't see the advantage. Is it that if you finish the leve, all four members get it marked as completed, whereas if you cancel it, the other three members can each activate the leve for another run?

[Kaylia]

I don't see the advantage. Is it that if you finish the leve, all four members get it marked as completed, whereas if you cancel it, the other three members can each activate the leve for another run?

Never done it, but this way, you could control which leves you get and make sure the whole party is always on the same leve (as opposed to having a random leves every times)

[Gadritan]

What the fuck am I supposed to do to continue? The answer isn't there and I'm going to feel a sense of defeat.

Nothing. I'm pretty sure it's impossible for anyone to gain respectable SP r29+. If I had a computer and internet access I might be able to find some sort of info on how to do so, but sadly I don't.

[Kensaki]

Making things on a cooldown like leves fail is so retarded I can't even begin to describe it. Same with crafts. this game is seriously wearing out my patience.

[Sephiroth]

Nothing. I'm pretty sure it's impossible for anyone to gain respectable SP r29+. If I had a computer and internet access I might be able to find some sort of info on how to do so, but sadly I don't.

I just got 44k SP (tier 3 surplus, maybe even 4 by now) in an hour and a half in a 9 man group picking up random leves (no cancelling bullshit) for Broken Water plus one behest. Sure it wasn't a pick up group bu it's not hard to form one if need be. I saw a guy forming one around reset time in Ul'dah.

[Kaylia]

They need to change the xp system to something where you log in, gives tasks to your characters, log out, and collect the reward next day.

[solracht]

Gad was being sarcastic because he missed the point Drak was making: the game is completely unintuitive and vague as far as what you should do to succed in something as basic as leveling up past a certain point.

At least I don't think either of them was being serious.

[Sephiroth]

Stat reassignment is retarded. It has been nearly two and a half hours and I still can't perform another reassignment. As if 340 clicks per reassignment wasn't bad enough. Glad I'm only doing CON for the skills and traits because it's impossible to play DoW and DoM at the same time without severely gimping one discipline.