Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[TacoTaru]

I guess when I said needed, maybe I worded a bit poorly. I basically mean that the needed "something" that gave people a reason to keep playing even after they had gotten their Ifrit weapons/done the raids. Materia feels like it was the team's answer to XIV needing a "merit system" without actually including one if that makes more sense in what I'm trying to say. And I don't know if they necessarily need to let R/EX gear be meldable, but if not I think the values on the Materia needed to be lowered (halved maybe?). Materia values are currently too high (for the most part) to allow R/EX gear to be competitive without offering very high stat boosts.

Of course I've only ever played XI so minor stat increments is what I'm used to most. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing if gear offered +40STR, but it doesn't seem appropriate at the moment anyway.

*I've read it and re-read it and I still feel like I rambled a bit. Hopefully I didn't lose the point in what I was trying to say.

[Grey Jorildyn]

You and I have talked about this before but aside from forbidden materia stacking being stupid as fuck, not allowing even a single meld on rare/ex items will permanent exclude them from use (Like TacoTaru stated) or make them very boring, and eliminate customization the materia system was supposed to bring. Ifrit's Blade is not a terrible weapon, but it's useless when tanking because of how needed enmity is, and even one Rage IV would allow it to be useful. The same goes for the belt slot, no matter what they do with the Paladin AF belt or any belt in the future if it doesn't have enmity on it it's not even close to being considered for use. However, just putting enmity on everything from now on is boring, eliminates the need for the materia system and converting crafted gear, and hurts dual-role classes like Warrior.

There's a thread or two, both JP and NA, about melding rare/ex items, but the devs haven't made any comments about it. They have confirmed that they are adding a system that makes it easier to receive melds, whether it's an NPC or a request-meld on bazaar feature, they haven't said.

And yeah, Taco, I feel materia was needed but the forbidden system feels like something we'd see two years from now to put life back into crafted trash items.

And I agree that in the current state r/ex stuff is not entirely viable. However we also need to consider the long-term effects of the system. We don't know what jobs will offer in terms of things like enmity management, magic accuracy, and other big-ticket materia. Right now the pool of gear is pretty shallow. Also, materia can't be slotted just anywhere. So there is a limitation in place to make certain r/ex good and others not-so-good based on what materia single/double slotting can offer. Their thought process is logical here, but unfortunately they are narrowing their potential as well.

If this is how the game will progress to the end (and I doubt it), then concepts like "set bonus" will not find their way into this game comfortably without a lot of jostling around of accessories and other non-materia slots to make up for the shortcomings. Set bonuses may be too overpowered or underpowered too. Cumulative set bonus would have some viability depending on the gear environment as well. Of course, this is just a singular argument highlighting the short-sighted nature of the materia system as it is currently implemented and could occur in any mmo. But hey, this is SE. Shit could change at a moment's notice.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

The problem is if the let rare/ex gear become meldable, even just one slot(no forbidden allowed), I think that rare/ex gear would then vastly be much better than almost all crafted gear except for a *few* double melds and loltriple melds. It would totally kill any reason to craft gear when a rare/ex could just be melded and be much better. Granted you need to earn the gear first but... I think the stats are so jumbled right now that there really is no right answer. Not to mention with the revamp of the HQ system stuff will change big time. Being a crafter right now isn't even about making the gear. It's just about attempting multiple melds and then lol'ing as you try to sell it in the wards with the lack of structure for selling unique pieces.

[Burningthought]

I think you guys are making it too complicated, I wish they added more unique gear to the open dungeons that require coffer keys, or NMs. If they have a set every 10 levels so you could upgrade easily I think it'd fix the current situation. Just make U/U or just U gear just as good as gear with 1 melded materia and I think that would fix everyone's issue. Crafters would still have their perks of double and triple melded gear, it'd lower the cost of 1 melded gear, and there'd be more options for upgrades with decent stats. Players should have the options of earning upgrades or buying them if they have the money. Right now there's only 1-2 sensible upgrades 1-50 especially as a CNJ. Not to mention how quick it is to get 1-50 now.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I think SE made it too complicated. There's A few examples of gear customization systems out there and they took a weird approach. Of course you could just as easily blame the armoury system for this mess. Yay crafters.....

[Aratharn]

And I don't know if they necessarily need to let R/EX gear be meldable, but if not I think the values on the Materia needed to be lowered (halved maybe?). Materia values are currently too high (for the most part) to allow R/EX gear to be competitive without offering very high stat boosts.

Does seem silly by the time the cap is 75 or higher a Bloodthirst X materia will offer +400 HP or something ridiculous.

[Niiro]

Materia stats increase more or less linearly with rank.

A hypothetical bloodthirst X would give 145-~200 hp assuming they continue the current trend.

Then consider how much base HP we'll have by then.

That said, I think the materia system, the way they designed it, is total shit with massive amounts of wasted potential for a unique gear customization system.

[Reizvoll]

The problem is if the let rare/ex gear become meldable, even just one slot(no forbidden allowed), I think that rare/ex gear would then vastly be much better than almost all crafted gear except for a *few* double melds and loltriple melds. It would totally kill any reason to craft gear when a rare/ex could just be melded and be much better.

This seems so because crafting is even less developed than rare/ex gear at the moment. The shit items we have crafted now SHOULD suck. Every crafted item in the game aside from the dodore doublet is effectively trash (even if you ignore that they are trying to put a colored-tier system in), and rightfully so since they all use much too common materials and shouldn't be used as more than leveling gear and entry-to-endgame, but the materia system makes them much, much better. Yet there are no rare gatherable items, there are no useful rare material drops, there are no siren's hairs, venomous claws, shining cloths, and no abjuration-type system that involves crafting (Haubergeon+Hauberk+additional mats) and NM drops (Sea hog, Nidhogg, and Odin in this case) in the creation of rare/ex items (Such as adaman hauberk.) A lot of the XI systems (Abjurations, crafted pop items, etc) actually make more sense in this game and it's mindblowing how they threw all their learned knowledge from that game away for no reason.

This is all due to there being absolutely no content to the game and it makes the future look bleak as far as items go because of so many fluctuations and outdated events (HNMs useless, DH useless, Ifrit is only good for DMG based DDs), due to huge, sweeping changes to overall systems, with no encouraging evidence at all that they have figured it out or know what they are doing. Rare/ex evasion boots giving 15, GC seals evasion boots giving 18, while any trash crafted boots in the game with melds can give 25 at the very least, and you can forbidden materia it. It's insanely frustrating to think about the future like this.

There are other ways of incorporating crafters, and gatherers into end-game gear than to have their things be the best with no interaction from combat classes, and not only have they not shown positive signs of this way of thinking, they've stated the opposite and said revamped HQs with materia will be the best. Dusk gloves were crafted, and that's great, but combat jobs had to get the hide. You enter sky with a scorpion harness and came out with a shura togi, and both of those items were crafted, and with rare materials to boot. Making every dropped item in the game like the Kirin's Osode and Byakko's Haidate is what hurts the crafters and gatherers, good rare/ex items do not have to be doom and gloom for the non-fighters.

But fuck crafters in 14, seriously. I really hope it gets better after things like Behemoth, Lake of Rage, and Crystal Tower are introduced, along with the level cap increase, but I just can't say that I am optimistic.

Yay crafters.....

[Aratharn]

Good post ^

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Yea good post. I posted a few weeks back about how the should introduce material drops from primal fights or even dungeons, as of course rare drops, to craft some good armor. Pretty much on the same page as you are with how content should incorporate crafters into making gear with drops (behemoth hide, siren hair, vclaw) or making cursed items to be uncursed (something I hope they do again).

[Raldo]

I'm all for what you're suggesting, but good luck convincing SE that their precious primal loot should be allowed to break (either through the synth process or materia melding). Then watch as they balk at the fact that their items can be purchased with sufficient coin by people who haven't completed their content.

I think those reasons are what's keeping them from implementing stuff like that.

Sadly, I foresee them adding the bazaar request-a-synth thing and making the material(s) and the end result rare/ex before they implement what you're suggesting.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

I can understand that they want to keep the need for gil to a minimum but realistically they can't with the materia system in place. If they really wanted to keep gear somewhat specific to beating a battle they could always give you some type of key item or achievement for beating say ifrit and that would allow you equip his gear. That way someone would at least have to beat him once to wear it.

[Reizvoll]

I can understand that they want to keep the need for gil to a minimum but realistically they can't with the materia system in place. If they really wanted to keep gear somewhat specific to beating a battle they could always give you some type of key item or achievement for beating say ifrit and that would allow you equip his gear. That way someone would at least have to beat him once to wear it.

They clear your loot list when you leave an area, and with a request meld option confirmed to be implemented you could receive melds easily on already rare/ex items, as long as they change their meldable tag, which is not mutual to being rare/ex. I don't see why they'd have to change anything about primal items to do this, and you can't break it with one meld. For crafted, top quality rare/ex items they could either go the abjuration-uncurse way or use a bind-on-equip system (I prefer uncursing, myself) for the top-tier crafted gear, or have some trade-able rare items like dusk, unicorn, dragon. A request-synth options seems to be grief-able, I'd rather have linkshell crafters do it.

As for forbidden on stronger crafted items, I think that balances out naturally. You don't see many double, triple, or quad meld Dodore Doublets or Sentinel's Hands, because of the risk. You have to go get another and that kinda sucks. However, almost everyone I see with Cobalt plate is at least double, and a good chunk of those are triple, along with electrum scepters, winglets, and crooks, etc. They are trash items and infinitely available because they use such common ingredients you'll never care that you blew one up.

Then watch as they balk at the fact that their items can be purchased with sufficient coin by people who haven't completed their content.

What content? This is half talking about rare materials used in crafting recipes, and half abjuration stuff. Abjuration papers require you to be there. You can't buy ifrit weapons (totems, at least) without being there currently, why would that change because you can meld it? BoE I can see that being a factor in, but as long as not everything is BoE you have a reason to go play the game's content, unlike now.

[Raldo]

Good point. I had forgotten all about how Abjurations worked in XI. That would actually be a good solution.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

BoE would be great. Would allow you to move items but keep them from being resold. Would do wonders for the economy and just the game in general.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Yep.. been supporting BoE from the start..

But if you mention stuff like in certain threads here or on the official forums, you get yelled at and called a FF hater lol le sigh.

Edit: This fucking goobbue takes up like 60% of the damn screen SE.

[Corrderio]

Dumb question, but what's BoE?

Also on the subject of Materia: Did they REALLY have to have a random bonuses on a tier? Sucks not being able to stack stuff.

[miokomioko]

Bind-on-Equip. Basically something that turns into "untradable" as soon as you wear it.

[Corrderio]

Ah those kinds of systems. I'd honestly would have preferred that over the materia system.

[Kaylia]

One issue with the current system is that no one is going to break low level gears into worthless materias. If at least they were giving something worthwhile in return, it would help low level players to get started at the expense of endgame players, but there is just no point right now. There is also way too little gears that are turned into materia right now...

I would have prefered something closer to LoTRO legendary system than the current materia. It was way more rewarding, without being an hassle.

Basically, you could pick 7 items in your inventory (equiped or not) that would receive experiences. Leveling these items made them stronger, but also allowed you to spend some point to increase abilities on the weapons. When you were done with one, you could also break it into gems, runes, settings and abilities scroll.

Each legendaries had 4 empty slots (1 gem, 1 setting, 1 runes, 1 crafted enhanced) and 5-6 enhancement slot (think merit points bonus). Because of that, there was a lot of place for customization, and you were never done with your weapon.

Spoiler: show

http://www.lotro.com/media/article_i...e004-small.jpg