Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[millionsknives]

Haha, analogies.

Are you talking about a car that has received constant updates, revisions and fixes in the last 8 years that essentially make it 5 times as good as it was when it came out of the factory? I've never heard of a car like that. etc etc

I don't expect 14 to be as fleshed out as 11 on release, and I don't think anyone else here does. The point is the basics should all be in place as they should have learnt from 11. Tiny things such as seeing what area LS/PT members are in should be there on launch because they are so minor, yet contribute so much to a smooth gaming experience. No one is complaining because endgame isn't present.

So yes, in relation to cars, I do expect a car designer to think 'I'd better but a steering wheel in this thing' when they first put pen to paper. Just as I expect SE to think 'we better put delivery boxes into this game from launch'.

You start with the basics, and build up.

I can't believe you expect people to think that because this game has been in development for 5 years its excusable they've not kept up with market changes for the past 5 years? That's laughable

[Scary]

Damn is it possible to get your Crysta reimbursed or credited to my paypal? I frigging put in $20 for an extra month, but I don't think i'll be able to survive past the 1st free trial period. If there were ever a game candidate for a class action lawsuit, this probably will be the first.

A masterful failure in terms of design, execution, and decisions.

[Ezekial]

I love how it takes 15 minutes to exchange a couple items with your retainer bitch.

[Scary]

YOu know what else? The bitch is hired, but instead of running to you when called, you have to run to her. Ain't that a bitch.

Ok, i know there's a bell. But you can't use it unless you already dismissed the bitch. Kinda weird, cuz if you dismiss you can't sell shit. Unless I did something wrong, then please someone show me how I can call my retainer near those bells if she's bazaaring in town.

[Hyan]

What I really want to hear is why in your mind SE is "missing out on the basics"?

The game is nothing but basics right now. And more than likely this won't change for a while either. Delivery box is coming. Inventory sort is coming.

And where does the "should have at launch" attitude is coming from, either way? What we know is SE released the game prematurely. That means some basics are missing, among other things. That's what happens when you release an unfinished game.

How that means SE didn't "learn" from their mistakes, I don't know. Currently there is only one "mistake" they didn't learn from; releasing 11 unfinished, even moreso than 14 is. But the problem is, that "mistake" wasn't a "mistake" for them at all. In fact, they learned that they can get away with it.

If the basics aren't there after first year, then it is clear that they didn't learn. Now how likely is that?

One thing is for sure: If Ford released an unfinished car there would be very basic shit missing from it too. They would just add them later if they could.

But what really perplexes me is how my original quote had anything to do with what we're talking about. Where in XI there are crafting quests? Especially in the way it's done with GuildLeves? There is no "past experience" to learn from, in this case. PRECISELY why it is acceptable for the design to be off.

Give me a reason why releasing the game unfinished is unacceptable and a mistake, if there is a chance they can get away with it once again. This is all there is to it. Even if they did extensive research on the market it wouldn't change anything if they can only ram so much shit into the game in the allotted timeframe.

[Viq]

The big difference is that the MMO genre when FFXI was released as an unfinished game was vastly different than it is now. An unfinished game was more acceptable then because there were far fewer games for you to choose. Many people back than had never played an MMO, or had only played one. When you don't know what to expect, it's easier to look over the flaws of an unfinished game. That simply isn't the case anymore. People have played other games, have expectations, and also have options now. Mistakes that were acceptable eight years ago are now mistakes that make a game unplayable, and result in players leaving the game.

Also, that Ford analogy is good, but not the way you used it. Ford built very basic cars. Other companies built better cars. These better cars raised people's expectations about what basic features of an automobile should be. Ford continued to release inferior "basic" cars into a market where consumers could easily get something better, and as a result people stopped buying Ford cars. That's the real analogy if you want to make it.

[Lucavi]

Haha, analogies.

Are you talking about a car that has received constant updates, revisions and fixes in the last 8 years that essentially make it 5 times as good as it was when it came out of the factory? I've never heard of a car like that.

Either way, I'd like to hear how you 'build on the last model' when said model (and all the other models from different companies) are 5+ years ahead in development.

The answer: You don't. The new model is always inferior to the old one no matter how you slice it because you don't magically create the game 5 times faster than before. It's the same with any new MMO in existence.

Maybe you might be able to understand this. Probably not.

So, by this logic, the 2010 Camaro shouldn't have been better than the '2002 Camaro because the '02 Camaro had been receiving constant upgrades since its inception in '98? That's funny because the 2010 Camaro is functionally superior to the '02 in just about every way, and its a brand new car on a brand new chasis. That's what building a new car is supposed to be about: making it superior RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE to its older models, then continuing to improve based on your own expectations and the improvements of rival cars.

FFXIV is pretty much the opposite. SE had a chance to take what they learned from XI and improve on it, then build a brand new "vehicle" years later on a new chassy that improved upon the old models in every way.

They didn't. Far from it, in fact. The car analogy is great. You're just blinded by your one-track mindset of thinking that because other companies have screwed up with their new MMOs by rushing them out the door in a lame-duck attempt to grab initial sales ahead of other rival companies, SE was somehow destined or preordained to follow that path, and should be given a free pass because "every other company and every other MMO does it".

I can't wait for Blizzard to finish their new MMO so it can debunk this horseshit logic, once and for all. Blizzard will never produce a failure right out of the gates as long as they subscribe to their personal mantra of "when its finished".

Yes, the game will not be "finished" content or story-wise, but because they are not rushing it, and will subject it to heavy tests, there's absolutely no reason to suspect that it won't be an amazing launch, and absolutely no reason to suspect that it will do "what every other MMO in existence" does. Every one of those MMOs wasn't given the proper time in the developing room and in the tester's hands because they all wanted to cash-grab to pay back antsy share-holders. Its no different than with many games that are released too early and get torn up.

When's the last time you've seen a Blizzard release get torn up? Diablo II? Starcraft II? Warcraft III? I can't seem to remember any, but I do remember a lot of constant responses of "when its finished' when prodding reporters and journalists try to pry out a release date on an upcoming anticipated title. As long as they hold onto that line of thinking, they'll never fail as a company.

[Milks]

Just disconnected from server. Also, cannot connect to Lodestone website. Related?

[Hyan]

So, by this logic, the 2010 Camaro shouldn't have been better than the '2002 Camaro because the '02 Camaro had been receiving constant upgrades since its inception in '98? That's funny because the 2010 Camaro is functionally superior to the '02 in just about every way, and its a brand new car on a brand new chasis. That's what building a new car is supposed to be about: making it superior RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE to its older models, then continuing to improve based on your own expectations and the improvements of rival cars.

Well, now that you described why the "car" analogy can never apply to MMO's and even explained why it is a retarded analogy in the first place, you saved me a lot of time. MMO's don't work like cars. Thank you.

[Maguspk]

FFXIV is a terrble game and FFXI is less terrible. Skip the analogies we don't need them to express just how shitty FFXIV is.

[Achitophel]

lol BLIZZARD IS THE BEST!

[avelle]

Damn is it possible to get your Crysta reimbursed or credited to my paypal? I frigging put in $20 for an extra month, but I don't think i'll be able to survive past the 1st free trial period. If there were ever a game candidate for a class action lawsuit, this probably will be the first.

A masterful failure in terms of design, execution, and decisions.

I think it flat out tells you there are no refunds when you purchase crysta.

[Whaleporn]

Fuck all the haters in this thread: This game is going to own fucking face when I play it in 7 years after the current dev team gives it to the abyssea team.

[Pixi]

Fuck all the haters in this thread: This game is going to own fucking face when I play it in 7 years after the current dev team gives it to the abyssea team.

This.

I don't care that there is no endgame. I don't care that they haven't polished the levequest system. Hell, I don't even care quite so much about the market ward system anymore.

I care that the game lacks basic functions that FFXI had, like the ability to see where people on my friend list and linkshell are. I care that now, instead of having to simply be in the same zone to invite someone to a party, I have to be practically standing on top of them. I care that it's a waste of my time to group with other people, as I'll get better skill points by soloing.

IMO, there's really no excuse for this. With the exception of the skill points issue, hey had already implemented these things in FFXI, so it isn't like they weren't sure of how to do it. They just chose not to, and it just doesn't make much sense to me.

[plue]

I'm sorry, but I've been reading these forums for close to a year now and Hyan seemed like a reasonable person. Did SE pay him to put on some white armor or WTF?

[binahel]

I like to complain! can I complain about the extremely slow gui? it makes me scream when I have to sell stuff to npcs.
can I also complain about the quest system? it's not really casual play to have to walk for an hour (excluding multiple aggro death) to reach a place to do a lv1 weaver quest
even chatting is somehow complicated, especially while crafting - which is what one is bound to do if he want to stay online doing something after finishing the daily doses of leve.

the game is stunningly beautiful though. that's the only thing I am happy with ahah.

I strongly hope in the future update for an overall revamp of the mechanisms. the game is there, I can see. due to a very laughable interface, it's just not playable though.
sadly. I'll go back to ffxi for a while then muahahah

[miokomioko]

the abyssea team.

It's amazing how easily blinded people are by XI's hollow "content" additions in the form of level cap raises + abyssea exp. No, it wasn't just to keep subscribers in a dying game. Oh no, it couldn't be.

[Deadgye]

So, by this logic, the 2010 Camaro shouldn't have been better than the '2002 Camaro because the '02 Camaro had been receiving constant upgrades since its inception in '98? That's funny because the 2010 Camaro is functionally superior to the '02 in just about every way, and its a brand new car on a brand new chasis. That's what building a new car is supposed to be about: making it superior RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE to its older models, then continuing to improve based on your own expectations and the improvements of rival cars.

Meh, this isn't FFXI-2010 edition. This is a Corvette; and while working on the Camaro from 2002(first edition) to 2010 will have helped them, the first edition of the Corvette is not going to be amazing. To relate the car to an MMO better though, the first edition should really be called the prototype.

[Kaylia]

It's amazing how easily blinded people are by XI's hollow "content" additions in the form of level cap raises + abyssea exp. No, it wasn't just to keep subscribers in a dying game. Oh no, it couldn't be.

Werent you the one defending SquareEnix's "only 20% of the content is implemented in the beta " using the level cap increase as an argument? Might have been Hyan though.

[fussel]

I WANT TO SORT MY INVENTORY!!!!11111